OK - its taken me some time to accept that the four judges did not conspire to create a tie on Saturday to ensure Tom would be in the dance off.

If so, then the culprit for this entire mess is Len Goodman. He undermarked Rachel and Vincent which ensured there was a tie for first place. Had he given a 9 - then this entire mess would have been avoided. If the public vote had gone (Tom, Lisa, Rachel) then all four couples would have had 4 points - with tom going through with the most public votes.

Actually, I NOW REALISE I DO STILL THINK the judges fixed the score to avoid this scenario - they just did not realise that the BBC had no way of dealing with the public vote aspect.

Well considering Bruno gave the last score on the last dance he's more likely to be to blame. I thought an 8 was accurate for Rachel's AS, a 10 was over the top, as was the 10 for Lisa's AT, so if they had marked the accurately we would still have had the situation.

Maybe it's just me but I thought the tie at the top was accurate, there was much between them on the night.

Everyone hates Len on this forum these days.

nah, I just hate Ask Len.

Wow, 180 degree turnaround in one post. Welcome to the forum, you'll go far.


Yep, me too.

What about Craig's 10 for Lisa's quickstep, he never does that. Now, that is suspicious

Ask Len is tedious, extremely boring and couldn't possibly be of interest to anyone. I always record ITT and forward past this bit.

All 4 judges have to give their scores via that pushbutton machine the sec the dances finish. So when Bruno shouts 10 last remember he has already punched that score into the pad mins ago.

So then none of the judges are at fault, it can't be Len's fault either.

I'm almost ashamed to say it. But some of the Ask Lens make me laugh

Excellent. Len is to blame for global warming, the state of the pound, and my football team being in the bottom half of the table.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Oh....sorry, you just meant on Strictly.

That would not stop the judges from agreeing about the scores before the show (hypothetical scenario of course, none of us will never know if there was a fix or not). No need to wait until the actual dances. Maybe that could even explain the bizarre scoring...

Ever heard of the 'butterfly effect'?

I don't think that's possible, if it is I don't think we would have many 10's, they would want it took look as accurate as possible, not completely random.

Don't know why, but I quite fancy Len
Should I seek help?

Ask Len.

is that a move in the AT??

I've posted this before so apols for repetition... Do you remember Bruno admitting on ITT 2 series ago that he deliberately overmarked Emma Bunton on one routine because he felt the other 3 had undermarked her? So much for instantaneous keypad punching.

I remember being gobsmacked by this admission and was certain he'd be censured or made to apologise. But nothing seemed to happen.

I'm maybe coming round to the view (after a few days' boiling) that Len isn't culpable but Bruno

Having that man on the end, with the ability to manipulate scores if he so wishes; his contemptuous manner with JS and with Tom last Saturday (remember the pussycat arse pout "OOH Tom is this your Waterloo?? uttered with great relish); his evident bias on the results show referring to "my girls" and on ITT mocking Tom's jive all add up to one very erratic & (IMO) unscrupulous judge.

If we have to keep him for entertainment value (he does make me smile on the odd occasion) then move him say to Arlene or Craig's position and put either of those two on the end.

But can Bruno count that fast?

My 12 year old son did

Admittedly, I was suspicious that a tie might happen & enlisted help from aforementioned son who appears to have a microchip ready reckoner in his brain.

He said 36 for R&V's last dance was needed so we thought it would be 4 9's. When Len gave an 8, my hopes soared - then came Bruno with his 10

Hold on - I thought everything was supposed to be JS's fault?!

Honestly, it's difficult keeping up......

I think that Len giving Lisa a 10 for her AS was the only complete and utter bonkers decision of the night.

I don't think that Craig should have given Lisa a 10 for her QS and Len's 8 for Rachel's AS is questionable, but they are nothing compared to the 10 that Len gave Lisa for her AT.

If you want to blame something, blame that.

It was completely bonkers, but it was for the first dance of the night so it unlikely to be to manipulate the scores, unlike Bruno's 10 for Rachel's AS.

They are both 64. If in doubt, just blame the nearest 64 year old.

Without evidence, all of this talk of manipulating the scores is just horse shit. Bruno's 10 for Rachel's AS merely brought Len into line with Craig and Arlene, whereas Len was batshit insane to give Lisa a 10 for her AT.