[victorslot]

I am looking for a very slim surround sound amp which is no more than a DVD player in height with at least 3 HDMI outputs.

Any idea's please.

[niall campbell]

3 hdmi OUTPUTS a no no I think

do you mean inputs??

[RobAnt]

I don't think you'll get a super slim quality powerful AV amp, as the transformer(s) has(ve) to be quite big to supply the amplifier(s) with sufficient power at peak usage. This requires a big reserve of power for immediate use.

There is an amplifier section for each channel (except maybe .1, which usually uses an active speaker for the subwoofer).

It is this that makes them quite heavy too.

[MrGriller]

Have a look at the Cambridge Audio 340/540r amps. They are the quite small for a decent surround amp. They are about 100mm in height,bigger than most dvd players but most amps are taller than that. May only be 2 hdmi aswell.

[victorslot]

Thanks for the info guys. Sorry , yes I do mean inputs.

The only thing I've found so far are Bose systems but they are mega bucks. Will keep searching as I really dont want a tall amp under the TV.

Thanks again and any one else who ha any ideas.

[stuntmaster]

I have always wondered that why can't the big amp bit be in a seperate enclosure with the connections / front panel in a slim box.

i too was looking for a slim amp (just for 5.1 use), and did find a sony TA-VE150 going cheap on fleabay.

no digital or HDMI, but good for my uses.

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

I have always wondered that why can't the big amp bit be in a seperate enclosure with the connections / front panel in a slim box.

i too was looking for a slim amp (just for 5.1 use), and did find a sony TA-VE150 going cheap on fleabay.

no digital or HDMI, but good for my uses.

Indeed, Pre & Power amps do exist as separate boxes. But I don't think they have made any dedicated AV Pre-amps.

Many AV amps do have pre-amplifier outputs though - so that the power side of these can be side-stepped and the unit used purely for switching sources and outputting audio to more powerful or better quality power amplifiers.

But unfortunately, the power-amp stages cannot be physically separated from todays AV amp/receivers.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Indeed, Pre & Power amps do exist as separate boxes. But I don't think they have made any dedicated AV Pre-amps.

Tag Maclaren, Lexicon, Denon, Parasound, Rotel, Primere. All those mentioned except Denon have been doing pre-amp processor systems for home cinema for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

I have always wondered that why can't the big amp bit be in a seperate enclosure with the connections / front panel in a slim box.

You could go the pre-amp route and use it with active speakers. The casings are normally a lot slimmer as it doesn't have to house the amps.

It's generally the high end gear from manufacturers like Denon, Lexicon, Rotel, Parasound that offer pre amp/processor systems. I think you will find the cost will be a fair bit more than what you are wanting to pay.

The second hand market will probably be your best bet if you are interested, all depends on your budget though.

Then you have the active speakers/sub to buy, for something half decent will again set you back a fair amount.

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorslot

I am looking for a very slim surround sound amp which is no more than a DVD player in height with at least 3 HDMI outputs.

Any idea's please.

Slim AV amp/receivers are possible with Class D digital power amps, but 3 HDMI inputs as well......that's a tall order

I'm not aware of any major manufacturer I sell producing anything like that at the moment. Even Bose's top-of-the-range Lifestyle 48 with its video expander (£3500 all in) only has 2 HDMI inputs!

You're kind of stuck between wanting the aesthetics of a slimline lifestyle product without the limited connection space they suffer or a high price tag.

Does the amp have to live under the TV?

I've installed quite a few systems where only the disc players and TV are on show. The AV electronics lives in a cupboard or even another part of the house. Control is via wireless remote. You won't be able to do this for £200, but it could be possible to squeeze a solution for under a grand if the cable lengths aren't enormous.

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

Tag Maclaren, Lexicon, Denon, Parasound, Rotel, Primere. All those mentioned except Denon have been doing pre-amp processor systems for home cinema for years.

Then you have the active speakers/sub to buy, for something half decent will again set you back a fair amount.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Rather than active speakers, a suite of power-amps would be a better option, quality wise, I would have thought. The number of power amps used would, of course, depend on the number of speakers that need to be driven. But I guess it's a matter of budget and taste.

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Slim AV amp/receivers are possible with Class D digital power amps

Can you explain to me what you mean by "digital" power amp in this context Chris?

Do you mean a power amp that contains a DAC and is connected to the pre-amp by SPDIF or similar connection? Otherwise, I can't see how the word "digital" would apply to a power amplifier for driving speakers.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Rather than active speakers, a suite of power-amps would be a better option, quality wise, I would have thought.

All depends on the amps/speakers used at the end of the day - some active speakers use Bryston amps in their speakers, IMO you can't get much better than that for amplification in a speaker, the drivers/xovers/design etc are all done by professional monitor companies. Lucas Film use actives in their editing/mixing sweet, they use Blue Sky.

I have just recently swapped over to using active speakers, processing is still done by my Denon at the moment, the quality is superb. I am looking into buying a separate processor, but it needs to be at a sensible price and compatible to HD audio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

The number of power amps used would, of course, depend on the number of speakers that need to be driven. But I guess it's a matter of budget and taste.

You could use 7x monoblock amps to run a 7.1 system, you'd need deep pockets. This type of system is more for the dedicated room than front room.

The more conventional way would be to use a 5/7 channel power amp, still huge boxes but more acceptable for our rooms.

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Can you explain to me what you mean by "digital" power amp in this context Chris?

Do you mean a power amp that contains a DAC and is connected to the pre-amp by SPDIF or similar connection? Otherwise, I can't see how the word "digital" would apply to a power amplifier for driving speakers.

How Class D works

A commercially available Class D amp chip

Examples of the implementation of Class D amplification in small form factor modular products


Some examples of compact products using the space saving benefits of Class D amplification:
[LIST][*]Kenwood car amp[*]Desktop speakers[*]Sony car amp[*]Yamaha soundbar speakers[*]Philips home theatre system[*]Kef compact subwoofer[*]Another Philips HTiB system[/LIST]
Class D has allowed manufactures to run high output amp designs in smaller cases without creating a heat problem. Most of the slimline and lifestyle home cinema kits couldn't exist without Class D. The sort of power outputs* claimed from small form factor amps couldn't be achieved without Class D as a basis. It wouldn't be possible to hit the sort of low price points we have on entry level gear without the ability to ditch expensive toroidal transformers and other costly components in conventional Class A/B amps without Class D.

If it's small but quite powerful, cool running and possibly cheap then there's a good chance there's a Class D amp involved somewhere.





*Yes, we all know about measuring 1 speaker driven at the optimum frequency for a fraction of a second to get magic Watts figures

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

How Class D works

A commercially available Class D amp chip

Examples of the implementation of Class D amplification in small form factor modular products


Some examples of compact products using the space saving benefits of Class D amplification:[LIST][*]Kenwood car amp[*]Desktop speakers[*]Sony car amp[*]Yamaha soundbar speakers[*]Philips home theatre system[*]Kef compact subwoofer[*]Another Philips HTiB system[/LIST]Class D has allowed manufactures to run high output amp designs in smaller cases without creating a heat problem. Most of the slimline and lifestyle home cinema kits couldn't exist without Class D. The sort of power outputs* claimed from small form factor amps couldn't be achieved without Class D as a basis. It wouldn't be possible to hit the sort of low price points we have on entry level gear without the ability to ditch expensive toroidal transformers and other costly components in conventional Class A/B amps without Class D.

If it's small but quite powerful, cool running and possibly cheap then there's a good chance there's a Class D amp involved somewhere.





*Yes, we all know about measuring 1 speaker driven at the optimum frequency for a fraction of a second to get magic Watts figures

But a Class D amplifier isn't "digital". You've done a great job of research for Class D amplifiers, but my question now is what do you mean by "digital" in this context?

[Chris Frost]

All I've done is use a common place name for this type of technology. If you want to debate the accuracy of the use of the word "digital" in this context then you'd better start with all the manufactures who use the same terminology

Single-ended design with Digital (Class D) Audio Amplifiers by Kevin Belnap, Marketing Manager, Texas Instruments

JL AUDIO e1800DM Class D Digital Monoblock Mono Subwoofer Marine Amplifier

Class D Digital Amplifier

Regards

Chris

[RobAnt]

I see.

[RobAnt]

So they're not really digital, but manufacturers like to use the word "digital" because it's the latest faddy (or "buzz") word.

[Chris Frost]

Well as far as my understanding goes the amps use switching technology, and since OFF and ON represent the simplest digital switch then I suppose in some sense they're correct. I doubt it's used as a fashion statement. Let's face it, if someone from Texas Instruments - a company that knows a sh1tload about designing silicon - refers to the amp as 'Digital' then who are we to argue?

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Well as far as my understanding goes the amps use switching technology, and since OFF and ON represent the simplest digital switch then I suppose in some sense they're correct. I doubt it's used as a fashion statement. Let's face it, if someone from Texas Instruments - a company that knows a sh1tload about designing silicon - refers to the amp as 'Digital' then who are we to argue?

At what point does a light switch become a computer? It too, uses switching technology.

It is a fashion statement, nothing more.

The truth about digital (class D) amplifiers [click].

And this is why I'm asking you what you mean by a digital amplifier. What sort of Class D amp are you suggesting?

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGriller

Have a look at the Cambridge Audio 340/540r amps. They are the quite small for a decent surround amp. They are about 100mm in height,bigger than most dvd players but most amps are taller than that. May only be 2 hdmi aswell.

I have an Azur 540R myself. There are old designs which don't have HDMI at all - only V3 and upwards have HDMI. Sadly, mine is a V2

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

At what point does a light switch become a computer? It too, uses switching technology.

It is a fashion statement, nothing more.

The truth about digital (class D) amplifiers [click].

And this is why I'm asking you what you mean by a digital amplifier. What sort of Class D amp are you suggesting?

Oh for fcuk sake, RobAnt Get a grip will you? We're talking about a poxy slimline HTiB amp, not the last word in amplification regardless of money.

Why are you trying to pick a fight?

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorslot

Will keep searching as I really dont want a tall amp under the TV.

The amp does not need to under the TV. My A/V amp stack is in a separate cabinet along with my hi-stereo gear.

[victorslot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

The amp does not need to under the TV. My A/V amp stack is in a separate cabinet along with my hi-stereo gear.

I really was looking for a minimalist approach. I do have a large cupoard with power available but that would mean running 5 x 30 foot HDMI cables and the other associated cabling.

The room is already wired up with buried and terminated 5.1speaker cables for my old analog A/V amp so ideally want to use those with a new amp.

Thanks again for all the input.

[RobAnt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Oh for fcuk sake, RobAnt Get a grip will you? We're talking about a poxy slimline HTiB amp, not the last word in amplification regardless of money.

Why are you trying to pick a fight?

I wasn't, I'm simply looking for your definition as "digital" has a hazy meaning in respect to an amplifier.

Barely disguised swearing? Now that merely shows your frustration and isn't very helpful, or conducive to a friendly discussion. You seem to have gotten a bit hot under the collar.

[Chris Frost]

Well I think I've explained clearly enough back in post #15 that the term is in common use within the industry and I used it as such.

I humoured you in your subsequent two posts, but quite frankly it looks like you're just trying to score points and I just can't be bothered with it. It's a pointless debate in the context of this thread hence my exasperation at you trying to make something out of nothing

What on earth the poor OP makes of you pursing this point is anyone's guess. I don't believe it's at all helpful for the credibility of this branch of the forum.