Totally agree.

I've also enjoyed this partnership, and have watched some of the dances several times. I agree with you, there is something more to apprecioate with each viewing. I think this is in part down to some outstanding choreography from Vincent.

You are very lucky to be going to the tour, hope you have fun, and don't forget to report back!

i didn't find her that boring. you don't have to be loud to be interesting.

Well you could I suppose, although I suspect that's just Small talk.

Well, she learnt the dances Vincent taught her. But did she ever do more than that?- Did she shine with a light of her own?

Watching the youtubes I am struck how bad the TV coverage actually is. Long distance viewing far too often. The cries that she looked dull and inexpressive were almost totally preconcieved - there's so few close ups on her and Vincent that no one could arrive at that conclusion on what they didn't see. The cameraman seems obsessed with her feet and full length shots - presumably because her footwork is striking, she is a nice shape and they wanted to show the relationship with Vincent. The contrast is with Tom where the camera spends its time mostly alternating between Camilla doing something extravagant, Toms footwork when he does anything thats tap based and Tom's face acting - badly.

He was always going to win anyway as the eligible/ineligible male but the camerawork actually creates the overall impression of the happy go lucky guy v the technical female. If you edited it with more distant focuses on Tom actually dancing next to Camilla and close ups of Vincent and Rachel you could alter the entire spin (mismatched pair v truly together) It must be possible to get a more balanced mix of shots - the sports team manage better in even short races where they have to cover the faces, feet, situation in the race and opposition.

I loved Rachel and Vincent too, they were terrific.

Actually it was the BBC Fixed Camera videos that confirmed my view that far from being technically perfect and deserving of 10s, her Foxtrot barely travelled one circuit of the floor, had no sway and was stilted.

What creates joy in my heart when I watch Ballroom dancing is to see couples dance to the sweep of the music, with gliding movement. R&V had practically no movement at all, and her steps were too small.

Compare her to Jodie and Ian, who had beautiful and dynamic floor coverage - which is an essential part of the technical requirements of dancing.
Yes, they're an exceptionally tall couple, but Flavia and Vincent have plenty of movement, sway and travel across the floor when dancing Ballroom, and she's also 5ft, so to compare Rachel to Flavia there is no comparison. Ofcourse one is a professional dancer and the other isn't, but I don't expect the SCD celebs to achieve technical perfection in months when it takes the pros years to achieve it. However I do expect when 4x10s are awarded for the first dance in the Final, for that dance to be outstanding and much better than it was. Lisa & Brendan won the Ballroom round IMO, their Foxtrot was better, but the Judges had already handed out top marks and had no room for manouvre. The OP can find fault with Lisa's shoulders, but not it seems with Rachel's glaring lack of movement.

Almost every one of the other leading couples - L&B, T&C, A&E, J&I - had more floor coverage and flowing Ballroom dances than R&V did, their FTAS in the semi was very nice and pretty, but it didn't even cover one full circuit of the smallish floor space. Whereas Tom leading Camilla would get from one end to the other in one Pivot sequence, likewise J&I.

Rachel's best dance by far was the Rhumba, which should've won the Latin Round in the Final, and was more deserving of her best score than the FT.

I say get a new Judging Panel for series 7!

I feel that someone who does 'glamour modelling' can't be a 'private' person at the same time and so the shyness to me is an act.
I always get the impression of insincerity when she speaks which is a shame as I was looking forward to her performances when the series started....I didn't think that all we were going to get was technical ability - disappointing.
Any up-tempo dances that she may have done are a distant memory for me while it seems the Rhumba is all she is prepared to perform now.:yawn:
All the other contenders in the Christmas Special performed a dance almost totally opposite to the one they will be remembered for and so showed versatility.
I can only think of her as a 'one trick pony' I'm afraid.

I thought she was expressive when the dance required it, like in the Salsa, Jive, Rumba etc., but just smiled if that was what the dance required. You can see that if you look at these dances full-screen.

[COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlycomedancing/video/vincent_rachel.shtml[/COLOR]


Regarding pre-conceptions, I thought this was an interesting comment on Rachel.

[COLOR=#0000ff]http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.yourcelebrityphotos.com/rachel%2520stevens.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.yourcelebrityphotos.com/rachel%2520stevens.html&usg=__e_CNUWlKGN7EGTcSlTZWzNeiPtc=&h=360&w=480&sz=35&hl=en&start=221&tbnid=_YUdJaIbZvwlRM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drachel%2Bstevens%26start%3D220%26as_st%3Dy%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN[/COLOR]

How much they cover and how big her steps are is Vincent's choice, not Rachel's fault.

I do understand that it seems a contradiction to be able to perform and be shot in revealing clothes - but there are various sorts of shyness. I knew an extremely loud girl once, who was very personally prim, for example.

From what I saw of Rachel, she seemed, not shy exactly, but personally reserved. This would fit in with being able to perform but not find it easy to 'give' of herself -'expose' her personality.

For many people in these times, exposing one's body is perfectly acceptable, but you can still be shyer than the next braless girl on the beach.

As for Tom doing a dance so different from the one he is iknown for - do you mean a bit old fashioned comedy? I thought's that was exactly what he did.

As for Lisa - did she do a ballroom number? She's always better with her legs hidden imo. I suppose it is different from her showdance and she'll forever be remembered for that

The dances Rachel did really well were the Salsa, Quickstep, American Smooth, Viennese Waltz, Rumba, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, Cha Cha Cha and Argentine Tango.
I think you'll find that's a ten-trick pony.

Interesting stuff thenetworkbabe and fatskia. I think Rachel was perhaps shot differently , though I agree it was probably to show her dancing off etc.

I think the 'dead behind the eyes' bit really stuck with people. Some people just wouldn't give her a chance 'snotty pop princess with no performance' was how she was destined to remain.

I think she was an excellent dancer, by far the best - and she had joy and expression.



Lisa smiled during her dances (as did Rachel) and was good at semi-porno earnest fake passion (AT showdance), goodness that sounds harsh, but true I think.

I didn't believe in Tom's 'acting' in the dance - I did believe he enjoyed the dancing and his (sometimes awful) acting in it, but to me 'performing the dance' is not making everthing funny (especially when it's not supposed to be!). Tom's personality did not 'come through' the dance, as it should - the dances were often sidelined by his personality.

Having personality when you dance obviously means different things, both to the dancers and to the different people in the audience.

Well said fatskia - absolutely, Rachel performed many, many dances extremely well that it's unfair to call her a one trick pony.

Well considering when he dances with Flavia, his Ballroom dancing doesn't lack movement or contain small steps, I should imagine he created dances for Rachel based on her technical ability when dancing Ballroom - ie limited, in that aspect, and far from perfect.

The choreography fit her personality, and I hardly think he couldn't make her take bigger steps in that dance. She's not an invalid and perfectly accomplished elsewhere.

Or perhaps he sacrificed floor coverage in order to show off her excellent control and topline?

Ofcourse she's not an invalid! But how do you know what he could or couldn't "make her" do? Were you in their training room? I'm commenting on what I saw them dance in the competition, and this thread asked the question, with an...? It's not an appreciation thread. And if you think my view is uncommon, you should read the Dance Teacher's Thread on the BBC Forum for more comments on her technical deficiencies. But, as usual, people don't want to discuss a different point of view, or the technicalities, but instead take offence if you don't think their fave is the greatest thing in the history of the programme!
(But meanwhile Lisa is good at "soft porn").

Why not just label this a "We love Rachel and think she's perfect" thread, and don't wish to hear anything to the contrary?

I've never argued that she's perfect. I just think that particular comment is daft.

That's a good point. You could also say that it's harder to maintain a perfect posture and control and balance when doing a Pivot sequence at speed and with the amount of floor coverage as T&C, so consequently his bottom stuck out and the Judges criticised him for it. But then again, he didn't get 4x10s or is referred to as "technically perfect". Either way all aspects of Ballroom technique are required in competition or when describing someone as "like a professional".

Which comment?

Your comment that she's incapable of taking bigger strides. It's the only dance where she takes such small steps but to pick up on that one dance to claim it as a fault of hers is just pedantic to me. When actually in motion in the waltz or quickstep, for example, they cover no less floor area than any of the others (short legs permitting).

I am interested in your comments, but adding your argument doesn't preclude others arguing against them, surely.

R&V's FT was unusual and I welcome discussion about it.

I mentioned Lisa's expression and 'emoting' during the AT and showdance, because many seem to think she 'expresses' the dance well, and the way I describe this was indicating that I am not a fan of this 'obvious' form of expression.

I am happy to discuss how else she expressed the dance so well, other than smiling and moving appropriately in the dance. I am a trifle mystified at this whole 'she can't express herself' idea about Rachel's dancing.

I can't remember saying Rachel was perfect technically - that's too tall an order for anybody - even professionals when it's not their speciality dance. I did say that she danced like a professional ( and I didn't necessarily mean absolutely all the time) - but yes, in some dances she appeared that good.

In the Viennese Waltz in the final, for example, apart from a couple of little hiccups, her technique looked very smooth and beautiful, and actually looked much better that T&C's .(though I like Tom btw)