[skTHEcat]

Good afternoon all. I have a question, or two on the subject of upscaling, I have an upscaling DVD player and an upscaling DVD Recorder. I am connectiong them to a HD Ready LCD just over 2 years old.

I have been told by quite a few bods on forums that the TV will upscale the pictures from DVD'S as well as if not better than the DVD player/recorder? If this is so, why do these DVD player/recorders have this facility? I have been told this on several occasions recently and I am confused? Could someone please explain in simple terms;

what upscalers actually do?
How?
And what is the pro's / Cons of buying a
DVD Player/Recorder if you have an LCD/Plasma TV?
Should retailers tell us this info about the TV handling the upscaling?
And buying Upscling DVD/R equipment would be a waste of money?

I am so confused about this whole subject, please explain?

Thanks;

skTHEcat.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skTHEcat

Good afternoon all. I have a question, or two on the subject of upscaling, I have an upscaling DVD player and an upscaling DVD Recorder. I am connectiong them to a HD Ready LCD just over 2 years old.

I have been told by quite a few bods on forums that the TV will upscale the pictures from DVD'S as well as if not better than the DVD player/recorder? If this is so, why do these DVD player/recorders have this facility? I have been told this on several occasions recently and I am confused? Could someone please explain in simple terms;

what upscalers actually do?

They upscale the picture to make it fit a higher resolution - what it doesn't do is make it HD.

All HD TV's already have a scaler, otherwise the picture wouldn't fit the screen.

Quote:

How?

Very cleverly, depending how expensive the scaler used is, it's NOT a trivial task - more expensive sets generally do it MUCH better than cheaper ones.

Quote:

And what is the pro's / Cons of buying a
DVD Player/Recorder if you have an LCD/Plasma TV?

It frees up a SCART socket for something else - gives you more options.

Quote:

Should retailers tell us this info about the TV handling the upscaling?

It's a sales gimmick - they aren't going to try and talk you out of it If you need a DVD player then buy one, but if you have an older one there's no point in replacing it.

Quote:

And buying Upscling DVD/R equipment would be a waste of money?

You would struggle to buy it without, like it or not HDMI is replacing SCART, most new sets now only have two SCART's, so you need HDMI enabled DVD's etc.

Quote:

I am so confused about this whole subject, please explain?

Unless it's an actual HD product (BluRay, HD satellite etc.) it's mostly a sale gimmick - it cons people into thinking it's giving them HD.

[skTHEcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

They upscale the picture to make it fit a higher resolution - what it doesn't do is make it HD.

All HD TV's already have a scaler, otherwise the picture wouldn't fit the screen.



Very cleverly, depending how expensive the scaler used is, it's NOT a trivial task - more expensive sets generally do it MUCH better than cheaper ones.



It frees up a SCART socket for something else - gives you more options.



It's a sales gimmick - they aren't going to try and talk you out of it If you need a DVD player then buy one, but if you have an older one there's no point in replacing it.



You would struggle to buy it without, like it or not HDMI is replacing SCART, most new sets now only have two SCART's, so you need HDMI enabled DVD's etc.



Unless it's an actual HD product (BluRay, HD satellite etc.) it's mostly a sale gimmick - it cons people into thinking it's giving them HD.

So its only a picture size issue? this really freaks me out, so if the TV did not upscale what would happen to the picture?

Also if youu connect a player via HDMI, what about other things connected via scart? I have aqlso been told if you connect via HDMI you lose the ability to view in RGB from the scarts? If you dont connect via HDMI you cannot view HD DVD'S? in HD quality?

Yes/No?

Rgds;

skTHEcat

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skTHEcat

So its only a picture size issue? this really freaks me out, so if the TV did not upscale what would happen to the picture?

Normal SD would give you a little picture in the middle of the screen, with black bars all around it.

Quote:

Also if youu connect a player via HDMI, what about other things connected via scart? I have aqlso been told if you connect via HDMI you lose the ability to view in RGB from the scarts?

No, it should have no effect on RGB from the SCART socket (and it doesn't on everything I've ever connected up - which is a LOT of stuff).

Quote:

If you dont connect via HDMI you cannot view HD DVD'S? in HD quality?

For HD you need to use either:

1) HDMI
2) DVI
3) Component
4) VGA (which is RGB)

Only HDMI of the four choices has sound.

[justpootling]

Nigel, can you confirm that an HD TV will only upscale an image which is being fed through HDMI and not SCART. The one thing that still confuses me about this alleged automatic upscaling by TVs is that for example, my Pioneer plasma will only show Sky digital through the SCART at something like 576i or a similar res. Why not at the native res of the set? ie either 720p or 1080i

I have a DVD upscaler with HDMI output. When showing the upscaled image through the TV's HMDI port, my Pioneeer will show the image at the res which the player is set at ie 720p or 1080i. The Pioneer doesn't appear to be doing any automatic upscaling itself otherwise it would, as you seem to have suggested in your earlier reply to the OP, be showing the image at the native res of the set, not what the player is set to show.

Am I just very confused?

[skTHEcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Normal SD would give you a little picture in the middle of the screen, with black bars all around it.



No, it should have no effect on RGB from the SCART socket (and it doesn't on everything I've ever connected up - which is a LOT of stuff).



For HD you need to use either:

1) HDMI
2) DVI
3) Component
4) VGA (which is RGB)

Only HDMI of the four choices has sound.

This No RGB through Scart comes from a Panasonic SC PT460 EB-K home cinema manual, does anyone else have one of these and can confirm the RGB or not when a HDMI connection is in situ alongside a SCART connection??

Rgds;

skTHEcat

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpootling

Nigel, can you confirm that an HD TV will only upscale an image which is being fed through HDMI and not SCART.

All inputs, regardless of source, are scaled to amtch the screens resolution, or it wouldn't fit the screen.

Quote:

The one thing that still confuses me about this alleged automatic upscaling by TVs is that for example, my Pioneer plasma will only show Sky digital through the SCART at something like 576i or a similar res. Why not at the native res of the set? ie either 720p or 1080i

The display shows the resolution of the source - there would be no point having a display if all it showed was the resolution of the screen (all you would need is a sticker!).

Quote:

I have a DVD upscaler with HDMI output. When showing the upscaled image through the TV's HMDI port, my Pioneeer will show the image at the res which the player is set at ie 720p or 1080i. The Pioneer doesn't appear to be doing any automatic upscaling itself otherwise it would, as you seem to have suggested in your earlier reply to the OP, be showing the image at the native res of the set, not what the player is set to show.

Depending on the TV's resolution it will be scaling either one, or both, of those to fit the screen resolution. The display will show what the source is providing, in this case either 720P or 1080i.

The TV can only display at it's native resolution, everything is scaled to fit - UNLESS it happens to exactly match the incoming signal, and the set can be set to not scale under those circumstances.

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skTHEcat

This No RGB through Scart comes from a Panasonic SC PT460 EB-K home cinema manual,

Ah, that's a Home Cinema kit issue - not a TV issue.

This sort of thing is common on some HC kits and DVD players. There's a chip and electronics inside the device that's responsible for creating the output picture on one form or another. It only has enough horsepower to do one type at once though - either RGB or HDMI.

It's very unlikely you'll have the same issue on the TV.

[Scorpio]

..........and to view DVDs you will only need one or the other.

Scorp

[Mike_1101]

So it's basically the same idea as converting from 525 to 625 lines or is there something else going on?

[skTHEcat]

So lets get this straight, HD = High Definition is it only the size of the picture? if this is so why are their so many programmes on the TV that dont fit the screen unless you play about with the picture? IE 14:9, 4:3, 16:9 Etc. I had the very same issues with my old CRT, and I got round by playing with the picture dimensions. So what does HD actually offer? that the old CRT tv's don't? especially if you only have a smallish LCD? Surely their is no picture size issues?

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skTHEcat

So lets get this straight, HD = High Definition is it only the size of the picture?

No, HD contains far more information and much more detail, you're using a computer, try altering the screen resolution.

Set it to 640x480 (standard VGA), that's fairly close to normal SD - notice the difference from your previous setting, yet your screen resolution is still the same (same screen).

Quote:

if this is so why are their so many programmes on the TV that dont fit the screen unless you play about with the picture? IE 14:9, 4:3, 16:9 Etc. I had the very same issues with my old CRT, and I got round by playing with the picture dimensions. So what does HD actually offer? that the old CRT tv's don't? especially if you only have a smallish LCD? Surely their is no picture size issues?

All HD programmes 'should' be 16:9, so no picture size issues - but mostly it offers much better picture quality, so you can watch much closer, or have a much bigger TV.

[pkc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

All inputs, regardless of source, are scaled to amtch the screens resolution, or it wouldn't fit the screen.

I was asking this very question in another thread..

Does a HD tv automatically adjust all broadcasts regardsless of 4:3 or 16:9 to fit the screen.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkc

I was asking this very question in another thread..

Does a HD tv automatically adjust all broadcasts regardsless of 4:3 or 16:9 to fit the screen.

I answered in the other thread, no it doesn't - unless you've set it to.

Current Sony TV's have an option on the setup menu 'Aspect Ratio auto-switching' ON/OFF, and next to it a setting for the default size. Other TV's usually have something similar.

[pkc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I answered in the other thread, no it doesn't - unless you've set it to.

Current Sony TV's have an option on the setup menu 'Aspect Ratio auto-switching' ON/OFF, and next to it a setting for the default size. Other TV's usually have something similar.

Thanks.. already read and replied in other thread

[skTHEcat]

My present (PC) Screen Resolution is 1024 x 768, it has no i or P so what is this resolution classified as? it does not have the one you said. it only goes down to 800 x 600 but it goes up to 1920 x 1536 whats that classed as?
Rgds;

skTHEcat

[Chris Frost]

skTHEcat,
All PC screens are progressive (P).

We don't refer to their resolutions though as 600p, 768p, 1024p etc because in the PC arena we specify both horizontal and vertical resolutions to indicate the aspect ratio as well as the pixel resolution; hence 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 are all 4:3 ratio screens. 1280x800 is a 16:10 resolution. Note as well the aspect ratio difference.

In the TV world we use the shorthand of 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p to describe the resolution of an image. These are mostly 16:9 ratios but there's nothing to stop the video image being 4:3

If your PC screen has a native resolution of 1024x768 (a 4:3 screen) then this is the number of addressable white pixels on the screen. Any resolution higher or lower than this number means that the screen has to scale the image to fit across its 1024x768 pixels.

[skTHEcat]

Hi, in that case what is the best setting for the screen I have? its 20 inches corner to corner and has sort of component cables with twisty bayonet fittings, its a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX, and what can I watch on it picture wise? (I got it for nothing) With no instructions.

Rgds

skTHEcat

[Chris Frost]

Ah, that's a CRT monitor not an LCD. They work a little differently.

CRT PC monitors don't have a fixed resolution like LCDs. That means it's a little trial and error work to gauge the optimum resolution for your screen.

The theoretical maximum resolution is 1600x1200 pixels probably a 60Hz refresh rate. However, you'll find the picture looks soft and slightly out of focus at that resolution because of beam spot overlap. You also need to consider the age of the monitor which I guess is ball park 8-10yrs old. CRT monitors go a little soft with age.

Start off by making sure you have the latest drivers for your operating system and graphics card [Google is your friend]. Then my recommendation is that you try 1280x1024 @ 75Hz and compare that against 1024x768 @ 75Hz. If 1280 looks softer then stick with 1024.

To help you make a proper assessment have a read of this article and Google for some test pattern downloads. I thinks there were some free ones by Motorola and NEC.

The twist and lock connections on the back are called BNCs. The set may also have a standard VGA connector. Both are data RGB inputs. AFAIK this is purely a PC monitor so it's not going to work with anything other than a computer graphics card. If you were thinking of hooking it up to a prog scan DVD player or similar on Component then you're out of luck I'm afraid.

[skTHEcat]

No I was not thinking of trying to connect a DVD, but the thought had croosed my mind of connecting it to my LCD TV? Is that possible?

Rgds;

skTHEcat

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skTHEcat

No I was not thinking of trying to connect a DVD, but the thought had croosed my mind of connecting it to my LCD TV? Is that possible?

No it's not.