DS Forums

 
 

Can the Satelitte dish used for Sky work for Freesat?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-01-2009, 14:23
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,774
Let's not forget a history lesson. About 6 years ago the BBC stopped issuing "free to view" cards, which by chance coincided with the last change of sky cards, and it was about 2 years before "freesat from sky" started. For those 2 years you simply could not get a card for just the free channels and when your old one stopped, you were stuffed. Then, channel 4 and five were still FTV so there was no way to get a card to watch those without a subscription.
Lets not forget accuracy in history lessons

The BBC issued Solus cards free of charge, but (as is usual with BBC commercial ventures) it lost them money hand over fist. So they negogiated with the copyright holders that Astra 2D was 'UK only' and could be used for FTA broadcasts to the UK.

They then stopped issuing Solus cards, as they weren't required for BBC any more - they also stopped paying Sky for encryption, which supposedly saved them money. In the event, and which they kept more quiet about, they reportedly ended up paying Sky MORE for regionalisation, and rewriting of the software in all the boxes.

Following the end of BBC Solus cards, CH4 and ITV launched a joint venture selling FTV cards, which (if I remember correctly) were £25 - but this venture lost money like running through a sieve as well, and they stopped after a while.

This meant, at one time, that there was no way to get a FTV card, you either subscribed to Sky, or used a cancelled Sky card. But it was only for a fairly short period, nowhere near two years.

The government though were pushing DSO, and this wasn't possible until a certain percentage already had digital TV (their own rules). The lack of FTV cards seriously slowed this down, so they convinced Sky (bribes?, threats? - it was never disclosed) to release FTV cards themselves for £20 - but ONLY for as long as they were required.

Sky cards were due to be replaced last April, but Sky managed to negogiate a short term extension (believed to be 12 months), due to the forthcoming launch of Freesat, which would relieve them of their obligation to issue FTV cards.

So I would suggest that there's now no longer any obligation for them to release FTV cards, but unless they do something else with the existing FTV channels, they obviously have to.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 11-01-2009, 16:13
ProDave
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Northern Scottish Highlands
Posts: 11,307
Lets not forget accuracy in history lessons
.......

Following the end of BBC Solus cards, CH4 and ITV launched a joint venture selling FTV cards, which (if I remember correctly) were £25 - but this venture lost money like running through a sieve as well, and they stopped after a while.

This meant, at one time, that there was no way to get a FTV card, you either subscribed to Sky, or used a cancelled Sky card. But it was only for a fairly short period, nowhere near two years.
I'm always happy to be corrected if I have posted wrong information.

I was never actually aware of the ITV / C4 FTV cards. All I know was a lot was happening in my life at the time, like building our new house. I recall the card changeover starting, and I recall being advised to ask for a new BBC card very quickly (aparantly a FEW new type BBC cards were issued) but I didn't do it straight away and by the time I contacted them to get a new card, they had stopped issuing them.

There then followed, for me, a period of about 2 years with no working card. As I say I was never aware of the BBC / ITV scheme. It was no big deal as I could get the channels on freeview, but anoying none the less not to be able to get them on satellite.

...
The government though were pushing DSO, and this wasn't possible until a certain percentage already had digital TV (their own rules). The lack of FTV cards seriously slowed this down, so they convinced Sky (bribes?, threats? - it was never disclosed) to release FTV cards themselves for £20 - but ONLY for as long as they were required.

Sky cards were due to be replaced last April, but Sky managed to negogiate a short term extension (believed to be 12 months), due to the forthcoming launch of Freesat, which would relieve them of their obligation to issue FTV cards.

So I would suggest that there's now no longer any obligation for them to release FTV cards, but unless they do something else with the existing FTV channels, they obviously have to.
That "Only while required" clause is interesting.

So do we expect by the time they DO re issue all sky cards, that enough space on 2D will have been found for all the variants of five to move over and stop being encrypted, then there will be "no need" to re issue them to freesat from sky users.

The other "ftv" channels like sky three etc I doubt class as being in the "while required" category. I expect they will remain FTV for ex subscription cards for a while perhaps.

But I still maintain for sky to be able to drop the FTV cards alltogether, then need to update the EPG so that a "no card" sky box lists channel 4 and five on the EPG, and at least a few of the regional variants of ITV1 are there (i.e at least ITV1 London, Wales, STV and UTV)
ProDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 18:07
awo1949
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Co. Donegal
Posts: 797
That "Only while required" clause is interesting.

So do we expect by the time they DO re issue all sky cards, that enough space on 2D will have been found for all the variants of five to move over and stop being encrypted, then there will be "no need" to re issue them to freesat from sky users.
That would be the optimistic view. At the other extreme, it could mean, "Only while required to receive chanels with a public service obligation" and that's already been achieved.
awo1949 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 19:21
ProDave
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Northern Scottish Highlands
Posts: 11,307
That would be the optimistic view. At the other extreme, it could mean, "Only while required to receive chanels with a public service obligation" and that's already been achieved.
Are you saying five does not have a public service obligation?

Oh dear, I can see a lot of upset people when the card changeover happens.
ProDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 20:26
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,774
Are you saying five does not have a public service obligation?
Doesn't really matter, it's on Freesat completely FTA, and that meets any such obligations.

It really depends what the exact details of the FTV card deal with the government were, and it's never been made public. Personally I've always suspected that they were allowed to do something which had previously been turned down (so a good 'no cost' bribe from the government).
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 21:02
awo1949
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Co. Donegal
Posts: 797
Are you saying five does not have a public service obligation?

Oh dear, I can see a lot of upset people when the card changeover happens.
I may be completely wrong, but I thought the only channels with a public service obligation were BBC1, BBC2, ITV (including STV, UTV, etc) and Channel 4. If that is correct, the requirement would have been met when Channel 4 went FTA during the latter part of last year.

But, as Nigel Goodwin said, it doesn't really matter as Five is already FTA. Of all the main terrestrial channels and their siblings, it is only the Five siblings that are not currently FTA. I doubt very much if there is any public service obligation with these, so its unlikely they have any bearing on when Sky change their cards. It's known that Five would like them to become FTA, though.
awo1949 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 09:50
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,287
I may be completely wrong, but I thought the only channels with a public service obligation were BBC1, BBC2, ITV (including STV, UTV, etc) and Channel 4. If that is correct, the requirement would have been met when Channel 4 went FTA during the latter part of last year.

But, as Nigel Goodwin said, it doesn't really matter as Five is already FTA. Of all the main terrestrial channels and their siblings, it is only the Five siblings that are not currently FTA. I doubt very much if there is any public service obligation with these, so its unlikely they have any bearing on when Sky change their cards. It's known that Five would like them to become FTA, though.
What about CH4 HD thats a free channel that's encrypted
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 09:56
awo1949
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Co. Donegal
Posts: 797
What about CH4 HD thats a free channel that's encrypted
Doubt if there's any public service obligation to provide HD.
awo1949 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 10:21
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,774
What about CH4 HD thats a free channel that's encrypted
Bear in mind CH4 have two entire transponders on 2D, which they currently sub-lease, so space is there for when they want it - depending of course on what conditions they sub-let the transponders. However, seeing as they had the foresight to lease space on 2D they didn't need at the time, I would hope they didn't 'stitch themselves up'.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:35.