Surround Sound Advice Required

hw3004 · 12-01-2009, 12:42

My current set-up is a Phillips Cineos 32PF9731D/10 TV, a Panasonic DMR - ES10 DVD recorder and Sky+ box. My intention is to upgrade to a Blu-Ray player and Sky HD box at some point over the next few months.

I want to improve the sound I get (especially in respect of the movie channels on Sky where we have to really crank the volume up to hear any dialogue) but I’m a bit confused by the options. My understanding is the best way to go is a home cinema amp and separate speakers but my wife (understandably) wants to keep the lounge as clutter free and wire free as possible. Hiding the wiring under the carpet isn’t an option as we’ve just laid a new hardwood floor. From this point of view the “soundbar” option appeals but will this be any improvement on the sound I get from the television itself?

I’ve got up to £500 to spend on this – can anyone recommend how they would tackle it?

howardl · 12-01-2009, 13:30

I cant recommend anything, but what I want to say is, why does the man of the house always bow to what "she " wants or doesn't want.
"my wife (understandably) wants to keep the lounge as clutter free and wire free as possible.
"...if she wasn't around you would get what you think is best.

Surley you could work it so it isn't so clutter free?

Chris Frost · 12-01-2009, 14:25

A soundbar is probably your best bet. They do need a subwoofer though to give a decent rumble, but at least a sub can be hidden out of sight.

Yamaha were the first to develop and push this new technology. IMO they are still the leaders in this field. There's lots of other 'me too' products out their for a fraction of the price but also a fraction of the quality. As with most things you get what you pay for.

Don't ignore the secondhand market. It's a great way to stretch your budget and get something far better quality. Again Yamaha makes the best secondhand buy IMO. To match the size of a 32" screen you should look out for the YSP800 or YSP900. If size is not a constraint then the YSP1000 or YSP1100 are excellent. They're about 1m wide and only marginally taller than the 800mm wide YSP800/900.

Yamaha's slimline sub is the YSTFSW100.

For s/h YSP's have a look at the following:

YSP900

YSP800

YSP1000

Hope you find this info useful

Regards

Chris

hw3004 · 12-01-2009, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

A soundbar is probably your best bet. They do need a subwoofer though to give a decent rumble, but at least a sub can be hidden out of sight.

Yamaha were the first to develop and push this new technology. IMO they are still the leaders in this field. There's lots of other 'me too' products out their for a fraction of the price but also a fraction of the quality. As with most things you get what you pay for.

Don't ignore the secondhand market. It's a great way to stretch your budget and get something far better quality. Again Yamaha makes the best secondhand buy IMO. To match the size of a 32" screen you should look out for the YSP800 or YSP900. If size is not a constraint then the YSP1000 or YSP1100 are excellent. They're about 1m wide and only marginally taller than the 800mm wide YSP800/900.

Yamaha's slimline sub is the YSTFSW100.

For s/h YSP's have a look at the following:

YSP900

YSP800

YSP1000

Hope you find this info useful

Regards

Chris

Thanks.
Am I right in thinking the YSP-600 and YSP-30D are more up to date alternatives?
My flat is quite old and the lounge is fairly large (about 20ft x 12ft) with high ceilings and 2 large bay windows. Accordingly the telly sits just off the corner of the room and we sit about 8ft away.
In the circumstances what would be the best out of the -30D/-600 or -900? I don't really see me having any use for the DAB or ipod docking functions on the -30D.

Chris Frost · 12-01-2009, 21:19

The range has expanded considerably as Yamaha are filling more niches with sound projector products. A very brief run down follows:

Entry level

YSP500/HTY750 - ball park rrp £500, discounted to £250-£300. Essentially both the same product apart from the cosmetics (one is black with a silver grill cloth, the other silver with a black grill cloth). This gets you DD, DTS, ProLogicII, DTS Neo 6. 16 directional tweeters + 2 woofers (mid range speakers) - 62W. Auto calibration mic. 610mm wide.
What you don't get is video inputs; picture from DVD / Sky etc go to the TV, sound to the YSP/HTY.

Step up

YSP600/HTY760 - ball park rrp £600, discounted to £300-£350. Same as the YSP500/HTY750 but now with 2 x HDMI inputs and 1 x HDMI out. Will pass a 1080p/50/60/24Hz signal but does not have it's own internal scaler for non-HD sources.
What you don't get is analogue video inputs so your VCR, Wii, PS2, Sky/Sky+ etc still send their picture direct to the TV. You can connect HDMI from a scaling DVD player, PS3, XBox 360, Blu-ray, SkyHD though.

Mid range - mass market

YSP900 - rrp £600, discounted to £350 - £400. Like a YSP600 but bigger and better quality thanks to more speakers (21 tweeters + 2 woofers), more power (82W) and available in black or silver.

Top of the range - mass market

YSP1100 - rrp £900, discounted to £500 - £600. 40 x tweeters, 2 x woofers, more power (120W), composite & component video switching, more sound modes. Just over 1000mm wide so it suits 402-46" screens best.

Mid range - specialist market

YSP-30D - rrp £600, discounted to £520 - £580. Like a YSP900 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. What you don't get - same as YSP900 i.e. no analogue video.

Top of the range - specialist market

YSP-40D - rrp £900, discounted to £750 - £880. Like a YSP1100 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, converts composite & component to digital and scales to 1080i out on HDMI, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver.

Phew!

So to summarise...

If you've got a 32" TV or smaller and you just want something neat to give surround sound then a YSP500 or HTY750 fits the bill.

A 32" HDTV owner running short of HDMI inputs would choose a YSP600 or HTY760 because it's got 2 HDMI ins and 1 out.

A 32" TV owner looking for a bit more audio quality without the video features would buy a YSP900.

A 32" HDTV owner looking for the best would buy a YSP-30D.

A 42" TV owner looking for great audio quality and simple video switching would go for the YSP1100.

A 42" HDTV owner looking for a soundbar with all the bells and whistles would choose the YSP-40D.

Hope that helps, and you'll probably go off and buy a JVC or Sony now

Regards

Chris

timpo · 12-01-2009, 23:50

So, what size of soundbar would you need for a 50" set?

niall campbell · 13-01-2009, 00:05

amp choices

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_m...detail&Pid=388 denon

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/TX-SR606.html onkyo

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...Y-STRDG820-BLK sony

I personally think these are a better choice

timpo · 13-01-2009, 00:20

Thanks Niall, but i dont want a number of speakers around the room, i would like to get a soundbar, so thats why i asked if there was one that would be compatable with a 50" set, thanks anyway.

Chris Frost · 13-01-2009, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by timpo

So, what size of soundbar would you need for a 50" set?

The ones for the 42" sets would look OK with 50" unless your set has an unusually wide chassis.

To get something that exactly matches the width of the 50" TV you'll have to abandon the idea of Yamaha's direct & reflecting sound technology and go for something like the super-wide dispersion speakers from Q Acoustics. They make a chin speaker array with Left Centre Right in a single width-adjustable bar. There' are some big differences between this and the Yamaha Sound Projectors.
[LIST=1][*]Yam YSPs are a self contained speaker & amp solution. The Q Acoustics is a passive speaker array - i.e. it needs an AV amp to drive it.[*]The Yamaha produces 5.1 sound by bouncing the rear speaker sound off the back or side walls. The Q Acoustics product is just the front three speakers. It needs extra rear speakers for 5.1 surround.[/LIST]
However, the Q Acoustics does have some significant advantages.[LIST=1][*]The Q speakers have very wide dispersion, so almost every seat in your room becomes a good seat for sound[*]You can partner the speakers with any AV amp; so you can use an existing AV amp or have HD Audio decoding compatibility if you wish[*]The rear speakers are designed to go up high at coving level or down low at skirting level[*]Price: A full 5.1 speaker system with slimline sub is £599. Add an entry level HD Audio decoding amp such as a Sony and you'll have superior flexibility, better aesthetics and a more convincing surround effect for not much more than the Yam YSP-40D.[/LIST]
The Q Acoustics speakers are also available as a 3.1 system (LCR soundbar + slimline sub) at £519.

Additional rear speakers for 7.1 are available at £89 per pair.

If you are interested I'm doing a package deal with What Hi-Fi's best AV amp under £500 - the Yam DSP-AX763 which has all the HD Audio bells and whistles plus it does cross conversion and deinterlacing of analogue video to the HDMI output which means just one video cable to the TV. The package price is very special

hw3004 · 13-01-2009, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

The range has expanded considerably as Yamaha are filling more niches with sound projector products. A very brief run down follows:

Entry level

YSP500/HTY750 - ball park rrp £500, discounted to £250-£300. Essentially both the same product apart from the cosmetics (one is black with a silver grill cloth, the other silver with a black grill cloth). This gets you DD, DTS, ProLogicII, DTS Neo 6. 16 directional tweeters + 2 woofers (mid range speakers) - 62W. Auto calibration mic. 610mm wide.
What you don't get is video inputs; picture from DVD / Sky etc go to the TV, sound to the YSP/HTY.

Step up

YSP600/HTY760 - ball park rrp £600, discounted to £300-£350. Same as the YSP500/HTY750 but now with 2 x HDMI inputs and 1 x HDMI out. Will pass a 1080p/50/60/24Hz signal but does not have it's own internal scaler for non-HD sources.
What you don't get is analogue video inputs so your VCR, Wii, PS2, Sky/Sky+ etc still send their picture direct to the TV. You can connect HDMI from a scaling DVD player, PS3, XBox 360, Blu-ray, SkyHD though.

Mid range - mass market

YSP900 - rrp £600, discounted to £350 - £400. Like a YSP600 but bigger and better quality thanks to more speakers (21 tweeters + 2 woofers), more power (82W) and available in black or silver.

Top of the range - mass market

YSP1100 - rrp £900, discounted to £500 - £600. 40 x tweeters, 2 x woofers, more power (120W), composite & component video switching, more sound modes. Just over 1000mm wide so it suits 402-46" screens best.

Mid range - specialist market

YSP-30D - rrp £600, discounted to £520 - £580. Like a YSP900 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. What you don't get - same as YSP900 i.e. no analogue video.

Top of the range - specialist market

YSP-40D - rrp £900, discounted to £750 - £880. Like a YSP1100 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, converts composite & component to digital and scales to 1080i out on HDMI, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver.

Phew!

So to summarise...

If you've got a 32" TV or smaller and you just want something neat to give surround sound then a YSP500 or HTY750 fits the bill.

A 32" HDTV owner running short of HDMI inputs would choose a YSP600 or HTY760 because it's got 2 HDMI ins and 1 out.

A 32" TV owner looking for a bit more audio quality without the video features would buy a YSP900.

A 32" HDTV owner looking for the best would buy a YSP-30D.

A 42" TV owner looking for great audio quality and simple video switching would go for the YSP1100.

A 42" HDTV owner looking for a soundbar with all the bells and whistles would choose the YSP-40D.

Hope that helps, and you'll probably go off and buy a JVC or Sony now

Regards

Chris

Very helpful and I'm pretty much sold on getting one of these. One more, probably very stupid, question - what's the advantage of video inputs on the soundbar? Is it purely that you could, for example, feed 2 HDMI cables in and both would travel to the telly via one output? So, as the telly has 2 HDMI sockets, neither of which I use at the moment, and as my future plans are only for a Blu-Ray and HD box, I should be OK to go with the YSP900?

Chris Frost · 13-01-2009, 10:25

It is also another way to get audio in to the YSP. The YSP will play sound tracks encoded as Dolby Digital, DTS and PCM over HDMI.

If you are running Sky+ at the mo' then you'll run an optical cable for sound. If/when you upgrade to Sky HD you'll still need to keep an optical connected since the muppets at Sky only spec'd stereo sound in their HDMI connection. In other words, for Sky Movies & Sky Box Office which have Dolby Digital 5.1 sound you can only get it via optical.

I'd agree with you though - a YSP900 seems a good choice from what you've said. Don't forget to add the sub which is very important. Yam also make a wall bracket if you plan on hanging the speaker below the TV. When you start hooking everything up do remember to include a composite lead from the YSP to the TV. This is so you can see the onscreen menus for setting up.

With all this advice I feel I should be on commission from whoever you buy it from

timpo · 13-01-2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

The ones for the 42" sets would look OK with 50" unless your set has an unusually wide chassis.

To get something that exactly matches the width of the 50" TV you'll have to abandon the idea of Yamaha's direct & reflecting sound technology and go for something like the super-wide dispersion speakers from Q Acoustics. They make a chin speaker array with Left Centre Right in a single width-adjustable bar. There' are some big differences between this and the Yamaha Sound Projectors.
[LIST=1][*]Yam YSPs are a self contained speaker & amp solution. The Q Acoustics is a passive speaker array - i.e. it needs an AV amp to drive it.[*]The Yamaha produces 5.1 sound by bouncing the rear speaker sound off the back or side walls. The Q Acoustics product is just the front three speakers. It needs extra rear speakers for 5.1 surround.[/LIST]
However, the Q Acoustics does have some significant advantages.[LIST=1][*]The Q speakers have very wide dispersion, so almost every seat in your room becomes a good seat for sound[*]You can partner the speakers with any AV amp; so you can use an existing AV amp or have HD Audio decoding compatibility if you wish[*]The rear speakers are designed to go up high at coving level or down low at skirting level[*]Price: A full 5.1 speaker system with slimline sub is £599. Add an entry level HD Audio decoding amp such as a Sony and you'll have superior flexibility, better aesthetics and a more convincing surround effect for not much more than the Yam YSP-40D.[/LIST]
The Q Acoustics speakers are also available as a 3.1 system (LCR soundbar + slimline sub) at £519.

Additional rear speakers for 7.1 are available at £89 per pair.

If you are interested I'm doing a package deal with What Hi-Fi's best AV amp under £500 - the Yam DSP-AX763 which has all the HD Audio bells and whistles plus it does cross conversion and deinterlacing of analogue video to the HDMI output which means just one video cable to the TV. The package price is very special

Thanks for that Chris....

hw3004 · 25-01-2009, 12:47

...managed to get a demo on the YSP's

I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford.

Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend.

Deacon1972 · 25-01-2009, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw3004

...managed to get a demo on the YSP's

I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford.

Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend.

IMO the sound bars are a compromise and will never compare with a dedicated surround sound system, to get the full experience of surround sound you really need physical speakers in place.

Personally I would forget the soundbars and put in place a dedicated system, they can be discreetly installed, you don't have to have big speakers and spaghetti junction for wiring.

Have you a budget in mind, this will make it easier to recommend a few systems that you should be more than happy with.

Chris Frost · 26-01-2009, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw3004

...managed to get a demo on the YSP's

I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford.

Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend.

Why didn't you get a demo of the YSP900?

If you were impressed by the 30D then you'd have been equally impressed by the 900! You said HDMI inputs weren't important so the 900 fits your requirements and your budget perfectly

(looks for 'bashing head on brick wall' smiley)

hw3004 · 26-01-2009, 13:23

No YSP-900 available to demo and the guy in the shop said that an amp and 2 speaker set up would be cheaper, better valus and better sounding than the YSP-900 or YSP-30D, which has muddied the waters in my decision making.

Chris Frost · 26-01-2009, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw3004

No YSP-900 available to demo and the guy in the shop said that an amp and 2 speaker set up would be cheaper, better valus and better sounding than the YSP-900 or YSP-30D, which has muddied the waters in my decision making.

But the 900 and the 30D are the same product except for the HDMI.

The sales guy is correct that an amp and stereo speakers will be better for sound quality. Did he also tell you that a simple analogue stereo amplifier (i.e. not an AV amp) would kick the stuffing out of any AV amp up to twice the price?

I think you're getting lost in all the options. You need to set your objectives and stick to them otherwise you're going to end up going round in circles.

What do you really want? What are the true restrictions (not what you assume she might say). How much are you realistically willing to spend? If you were shown something substantially better how much extra cash could you find to pay for it?

hw3004 · 28-01-2009, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

What do you really want? What are the true restrictions (not what you assume she might say). How much are you realistically willing to spend? If you were shown something substantially better how much extra cash could you find to pay for it?

I want to improve the sound quality over what I get from the television's own speaker. I am willing to spend no more than £500. The restrictions are I don't want a 5 speaker set up.

I've already got an amp and speakers in the room for my hi-fi, which I would prefer to keep as a separate entity from the tv set up .... but I maybe could be persuaded otherwise.

Chris Frost · 28-01-2009, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw3004

I've already got an amp and speakers in the room for my hi-fi, which I would prefer to keep as a separate entity from the tv set up .... but I maybe could be persuaded otherwise.

OK, that's interesting. Would you consider yourself as a serious music enthusiast?

hw3004 · 28-01-2009, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

OK, that's interesting. Would you consider yourself as a serious music enthusiast?

Fairly serious....but a music enthusiast rather than a hi-fi buff (if you know what I mean). The music set up is a TEAC Amp, Teac CD, Numark Mixer and 2 additional CD decks, B&W speakers....and a rarely used turntable.

I watch a fair amount of music television/ DVDs so, if forced to choose I would tend to go for something that would enhance this over films (although obviously I want both).

Fullychoked · 29-01-2009, 12:50

I have recently bought the 30D after a demonstration, also having 'wifely' constraints, as most of us do and despite some misgivings (how 'surround' will the surround sound be in my house?) have found it to be excellent, giving a clear sound with real depth. This is in a 20'x30' room with the usual Sofas, tables around. I'd also recommend a sub. as essential. It makes all the difference.

My setup is a Sony 42" KDL40W4000, Sony Blu-Ray S300 and SkyHD, all connected via HDMI and optical cable for the SkyHD.

One thing to note though, When switching on Sky, the YSP-30D selects DVD as the AV Input, so just using the Sky Remote is not an option (unless someone can tell me differently?)

Willie Wontie · 29-01-2009, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullychoked

One thing to note though, When switching on Sky, the YSP-30D selects DVD as the AV Input, so just using the Sky Remote is not an option (unless someone can tell me differently?)

Do you mean that you don't know how to use the Sky remote to switch inputs on your television?

Press the TV button, then repeated presses of the Help button will work the same way as repeated presses of the AV button on your TV remote control.

Fullychoked · 30-01-2009, 12:48

Hi,
I guess I didn't explain that properly. (I hope we're not going too far off topic here)

When I want to watch Sky, and I switch on the satellite, the YSP, if in standby, always reverts to the 'DVD' AV Input. I then have to use the YSP Remote to select 'STB'.

What I really want is the YSP to default to 'STB' as that's what is used most often, and then I can just use the Sky Remote (as it's very Wife friendly). however there doesn't appear to be a setting that does this on the YSP

I know it sound l like incorrect wiring , but believe me, I've tried everything! All HDMI controls are set to 'On' on the TV & Blu-Ray. The YSP is set to switch HDMI control - There isn't a setting on SkyHD.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Willie Wontie · 31-01-2009, 11:14

deleted

jeppa · 31-01-2009, 17:28

I have a wall mounted 47" Philips lcd and bought a Philips Soundbar to be mounted underneath, extremely happy with the way it looks and it sounds great.

12-01-2009, 12:42	#1
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	Surround Sound Advice Required My current set-up is a Phillips Cineos 32PF9731D/10 TV, a Panasonic DMR - ES10 DVD recorder and Sky+ box. My intention is to upgrade to a Blu-Ray player and Sky HD box at some point over the next few months. I want to improve the sound I get (especially in respect of the movie channels on Sky where we have to really crank the volume up to hear any dialogue) but I’m a bit confused by the options. My understanding is the best way to go is a home cinema amp and separate speakers but my wife (understandably) wants to keep the lounge as clutter free and wire free as possible. Hiding the wiring under the carpet isn’t an option as we’ve just laid a new hardwood floor. From this point of view the “soundbar” option appeals but will this be any improvement on the sound I get from the television itself? I’ve got up to £500 to spend on this – can anyone recommend how they would tackle it?

12-01-2009, 21:19	#5
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	The range has expanded considerably as Yamaha are filling more niches with sound projector products. A very brief run down follows: Entry level YSP500/HTY750 - ball park rrp £500, discounted to £250-£300. Essentially both the same product apart from the cosmetics (one is black with a silver grill cloth, the other silver with a black grill cloth). This gets you DD, DTS, ProLogicII, DTS Neo 6. 16 directional tweeters + 2 woofers (mid range speakers) - 62W. Auto calibration mic. 610mm wide. What you don't get is video inputs; picture from DVD / Sky etc go to the TV, sound to the YSP/HTY. Step up YSP600/HTY760 - ball park rrp £600, discounted to £300-£350. Same as the YSP500/HTY750 but now with 2 x HDMI inputs and 1 x HDMI out. Will pass a 1080p/50/60/24Hz signal but does not have it's own internal scaler for non-HD sources. What you don't get is analogue video inputs so your VCR, Wii, PS2, Sky/Sky+ etc still send their picture direct to the TV. You can connect HDMI from a scaling DVD player, PS3, XBox 360, Blu-ray, SkyHD though. Mid range - mass market YSP900 - rrp £600, discounted to £350 - £400. Like a YSP600 but bigger and better quality thanks to more speakers (21 tweeters + 2 woofers), more power (82W) and available in black or silver. Top of the range - mass market YSP1100 - rrp £900, discounted to £500 - £600. 40 x tweeters, 2 x woofers, more power (120W), composite & component video switching, more sound modes. Just over 1000mm wide so it suits 402-46" screens best. Mid range - specialist market YSP-30D - rrp £600, discounted to £520 - £580. Like a YSP900 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. What you don't get - same as YSP900 i.e. no analogue video. Top of the range - specialist market YSP-40D - rrp £900, discounted to £750 - £880. Like a YSP1100 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, converts composite & component to digital and scales to 1080i out on HDMI, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. Phew! So to summarise... If you've got a 32" TV or smaller and you just want something neat to give surround sound then a YSP500 or HTY750 fits the bill. A 32" HDTV owner running short of HDMI inputs would choose a YSP600 or HTY760 because it's got 2 HDMI ins and 1 out. A 32" TV owner looking for a bit more audio quality without the video features would buy a YSP900. A 32" HDTV owner looking for the best would buy a YSP-30D. A 42" TV owner looking for great audio quality and simple video switching would go for the YSP1100. A 42" HDTV owner looking for a soundbar with all the bells and whistles would choose the YSP-40D. Hope that helps, and you'll probably go off and buy a JVC or Sony now Regards Chris

13-01-2009, 08:06	#10
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost The range has expanded considerably as Yamaha are filling more niches with sound projector products. A very brief run down follows: Entry level YSP500/HTY750 - ball park rrp £500, discounted to £250-£300. Essentially both the same product apart from the cosmetics (one is black with a silver grill cloth, the other silver with a black grill cloth). This gets you DD, DTS, ProLogicII, DTS Neo 6. 16 directional tweeters + 2 woofers (mid range speakers) - 62W. Auto calibration mic. 610mm wide. What you don't get is video inputs; picture from DVD / Sky etc go to the TV, sound to the YSP/HTY. Step up YSP600/HTY760 - ball park rrp £600, discounted to £300-£350. Same as the YSP500/HTY750 but now with 2 x HDMI inputs and 1 x HDMI out. Will pass a 1080p/50/60/24Hz signal but does not have it's own internal scaler for non-HD sources. What you don't get is analogue video inputs so your VCR, Wii, PS2, Sky/Sky+ etc still send their picture direct to the TV. You can connect HDMI from a scaling DVD player, PS3, XBox 360, Blu-ray, SkyHD though. Mid range - mass market YSP900 - rrp £600, discounted to £350 - £400. Like a YSP600 but bigger and better quality thanks to more speakers (21 tweeters + 2 woofers), more power (82W) and available in black or silver. Top of the range - mass market YSP1100 - rrp £900, discounted to £500 - £600. 40 x tweeters, 2 x woofers, more power (120W), composite & component video switching, more sound modes. Just over 1000mm wide so it suits 402-46" screens best. Mid range - specialist market YSP-30D - rrp £600, discounted to £520 - £580. Like a YSP900 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. What you don't get - same as YSP900 i.e. no analogue video. Top of the range - specialist market YSP-40D - rrp £900, discounted to £750 - £880. Like a YSP1100 but with 2 x HDMI inputs, 1 x HDMI out, converts composite & component to digital and scales to 1080i out on HDMI, 1080p50/60/24 pass-through, DAB radio, Yam iPod dock socket, and available in black or silver. Phew! So to summarise... If you've got a 32" TV or smaller and you just want something neat to give surround sound then a YSP500 or HTY750 fits the bill. A 32" HDTV owner running short of HDMI inputs would choose a YSP600 or HTY760 because it's got 2 HDMI ins and 1 out. A 32" TV owner looking for a bit more audio quality without the video features would buy a YSP900. A 32" HDTV owner looking for the best would buy a YSP-30D. A 42" TV owner looking for great audio quality and simple video switching would go for the YSP1100. A 42" HDTV owner looking for a soundbar with all the bells and whistles would choose the YSP-40D. Hope that helps, and you'll probably go off and buy a JVC or Sony now Regards Chris Very helpful and I'm pretty much sold on getting one of these. One more, probably very stupid, question - what's the advantage of video inputs on the soundbar? Is it purely that you could, for example, feed 2 HDMI cables in and both would travel to the telly via one output? So, as the telly has 2 HDMI sockets, neither of which I use at the moment, and as my future plans are only for a Blu-Ray and HD box, I should be OK to go with the YSP900?

29-01-2009, 12:50	#21
Fullychoked Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2	Surround Sound Advice I have recently bought the 30D after a demonstration, also having 'wifely' constraints, as most of us do and despite some misgivings (how 'surround' will the surround sound be in my house?) have found it to be excellent, giving a clear sound with real depth. This is in a 20'x30' room with the usual Sofas, tables around. I'd also recommend a sub. as essential. It makes all the difference. My setup is a Sony 42" KDL40W4000, Sony Blu-Ray S300 and SkyHD, all connected via HDMI and optical cable for the SkyHD. One thing to note though, When switching on Sky, the YSP-30D selects DVD as the AV Input, so just using the Sky Remote is not an option (unless someone can tell me differently?)

12-01-2009, 13:30	#2
howardl Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,909	I cant recommend anything, but what I want to say is, why does the man of the house always bow to what "she " wants or doesn't want. "my wife (understandably) wants to keep the lounge as clutter free and wire free as possible. "...if she wasn't around you would get what you think is best. Surley you could work it so it isn't so clutter free?

12-01-2009, 14:25	#3
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	A soundbar is probably your best bet. They do need a subwoofer though to give a decent rumble, but at least a sub can be hidden out of sight. Yamaha were the first to develop and push this new technology. IMO they are still the leaders in this field. There's lots of other 'me too' products out their for a fraction of the price but also a fraction of the quality. As with most things you get what you pay for. Don't ignore the secondhand market. It's a great way to stretch your budget and get something far better quality. Again Yamaha makes the best secondhand buy IMO. To match the size of a 32" screen you should look out for the YSP800 or YSP900. If size is not a constraint then the YSP1000 or YSP1100 are excellent. They're about 1m wide and only marginally taller than the 800mm wide YSP800/900. Yamaha's slimline sub is the YSTFSW100. For s/h YSP's have a look at the following: YSP900 YSP800 YSP1000 Hope you find this info useful Regards Chris

12-01-2009, 18:19	#4
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost A soundbar is probably your best bet. They do need a subwoofer though to give a decent rumble, but at least a sub can be hidden out of sight. Yamaha were the first to develop and push this new technology. IMO they are still the leaders in this field. There's lots of other 'me too' products out their for a fraction of the price but also a fraction of the quality. As with most things you get what you pay for. Don't ignore the secondhand market. It's a great way to stretch your budget and get something far better quality. Again Yamaha makes the best secondhand buy IMO. To match the size of a 32" screen you should look out for the YSP800 or YSP900. If size is not a constraint then the YSP1000 or YSP1100 are excellent. They're about 1m wide and only marginally taller than the 800mm wide YSP800/900. Yamaha's slimline sub is the YSTFSW100. For s/h YSP's have a look at the following: YSP900 YSP800 YSP1000 Hope you find this info useful Regards Chris Thanks. Am I right in thinking the YSP-600 and YSP-30D are more up to date alternatives? My flat is quite old and the lounge is fairly large (about 20ft x 12ft) with high ceilings and 2 large bay windows. Accordingly the telly sits just off the corner of the room and we sit about 8ft away. In the circumstances what would be the best out of the -30D/-600 or -900? I don't really see me having any use for the DAB or ipod docking functions on the -30D.

12-01-2009, 23:50	#6
timpo Inactive Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,810	So, what size of soundbar would you need for a 50" set?

13-01-2009, 00:05	#7
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	amp choices http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_m...detail&Pid=388 denon http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/TX-SR606.html onkyo http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...Y-STRDG820-BLK sony I personally think these are a better choice

13-01-2009, 00:20	#8
timpo Inactive Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,810	Thanks Niall, but i dont want a number of speakers around the room, i would like to get a soundbar, so thats why i asked if there was one that would be compatable with a 50" set, thanks anyway.

13-01-2009, 01:24	#9
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Quote: Originally Posted by timpo So, what size of soundbar would you need for a 50" set? The ones for the 42" sets would look OK with 50" unless your set has an unusually wide chassis. To get something that exactly matches the width of the 50" TV you'll have to abandon the idea of Yamaha's direct & reflecting sound technology and go for something like the super-wide dispersion speakers from Q Acoustics. They make a chin speaker array with Left Centre Right in a single width-adjustable bar. There' are some big differences between this and the Yamaha Sound Projectors. [LIST=1][]Yam YSPs are a self contained speaker & amp solution. The Q Acoustics is a passive speaker array - i.e. it needs an AV amp to drive it.[]The Yamaha produces 5.1 sound by bouncing the rear speaker sound off the back or side walls. The Q Acoustics product is just the front three speakers. It needs extra rear speakers for 5.1 surround.[/LIST] However, the Q Acoustics does have some significant advantages.[LIST=1][]The Q speakers have very wide dispersion, so almost every seat in your room becomes a good seat for sound[]You can partner the speakers with any AV amp; so you can use an existing AV amp or have HD Audio decoding compatibility if you wish[]The rear speakers are designed to go up high at coving level or down low at skirting level[]Price: A full 5.1 speaker system with slimline sub is £599. Add an entry level HD Audio decoding amp such as a Sony and you'll have superior flexibility, better aesthetics and a more convincing surround effect for not much more than the Yam YSP-40D.[/LIST] The Q Acoustics speakers are also available as a 3.1 system (LCR soundbar + slimline sub) at £519. Additional rear speakers for 7.1 are available at £89 per pair. If you are interested I'm doing a package deal with What Hi-Fi's best AV amp under £500 - the Yam DSP-AX763 which has all the HD Audio bells and whistles plus it does cross conversion and deinterlacing of analogue video to the HDMI output which means just one video cable to the TV. The package price is very special

13-01-2009, 10:25	#11
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	It is also another way to get audio in to the YSP. The YSP will play sound tracks encoded as Dolby Digital, DTS and PCM over HDMI. If you are running Sky+ at the mo' then you'll run an optical cable for sound. If/when you upgrade to Sky HD you'll still need to keep an optical connected since the muppets at Sky only spec'd stereo sound in their HDMI connection. In other words, for Sky Movies & Sky Box Office which have Dolby Digital 5.1 sound you can only get it via optical. I'd agree with you though - a YSP900 seems a good choice from what you've said. Don't forget to add the sub which is very important. Yam also make a wall bracket if you plan on hanging the speaker below the TV. When you start hooking everything up do remember to include a composite lead from the YSP to the TV. This is so you can see the onscreen menus for setting up. With all this advice I feel I should be on commission from whoever you buy it from

13-01-2009, 15:25	#12
timpo Inactive Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,810	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost The ones for the 42" sets would look OK with 50" unless your set has an unusually wide chassis. To get something that exactly matches the width of the 50" TV you'll have to abandon the idea of Yamaha's direct & reflecting sound technology and go for something like the super-wide dispersion speakers from Q Acoustics. They make a chin speaker array with Left Centre Right in a single width-adjustable bar. There' are some big differences between this and the Yamaha Sound Projectors. [LIST=1][]Yam YSPs are a self contained speaker & amp solution. The Q Acoustics is a passive speaker array - i.e. it needs an AV amp to drive it.[]The Yamaha produces 5.1 sound by bouncing the rear speaker sound off the back or side walls. The Q Acoustics product is just the front three speakers. It needs extra rear speakers for 5.1 surround.[/LIST] However, the Q Acoustics does have some significant advantages.[LIST=1][]The Q speakers have very wide dispersion, so almost every seat in your room becomes a good seat for sound[]You can partner the speakers with any AV amp; so you can use an existing AV amp or have HD Audio decoding compatibility if you wish[]The rear speakers are designed to go up high at coving level or down low at skirting level[]Price: A full 5.1 speaker system with slimline sub is £599. Add an entry level HD Audio decoding amp such as a Sony and you'll have superior flexibility, better aesthetics and a more convincing surround effect for not much more than the Yam YSP-40D.[/LIST] The Q Acoustics speakers are also available as a 3.1 system (LCR soundbar + slimline sub) at £519. Additional rear speakers for 7.1 are available at £89 per pair. If you are interested I'm doing a package deal with What Hi-Fi's best AV amp under £500 - the Yam DSP-AX763 which has all the HD Audio bells and whistles plus it does cross conversion and deinterlacing of analogue video to the HDMI output which means just one video cable to the TV. The package price is very special Thanks for that Chris....

25-01-2009, 12:47	#13
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	...managed to get a demo on the YSP's I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford. Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend.

25-01-2009, 13:00	#14
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by hw3004 ...managed to get a demo on the YSP's I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford. Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend. IMO the sound bars are a compromise and will never compare with a dedicated surround sound system, to get the full experience of surround sound you really need physical speakers in place. Personally I would forget the soundbars and put in place a dedicated system, they can be discreetly installed, you don't have to have big speakers and spaghetti junction for wiring. Have you a budget in mind, this will make it easier to recommend a few systems that you should be more than happy with.

26-01-2009, 12:12	#15
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Quote: Originally Posted by hw3004 ...managed to get a demo on the YSP's I must admit I wasn't impressed with the -600. The sound was obviously an improvement over my current set up but I wasn't feeling any surround effect. Maybe it suffered in comparison to the -30D which I was impressed by BUT can't afford. Would I be better forgetting the surround sound aspect and getting an AV Amp + Speakers? (i.e. Would the sound quality be better from such a set up?) If so, what would people recommend. Why didn't you get a demo of the YSP900? If you were impressed by the 30D then you'd have been equally impressed by the 900! You said HDMI inputs weren't important so the 900 fits your requirements and your budget perfectly (looks for 'bashing head on brick wall' smiley)

26-01-2009, 13:23	#16
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	No YSP-900 available to demo and the guy in the shop said that an amp and 2 speaker set up would be cheaper, better valus and better sounding than the YSP-900 or YSP-30D, which has muddied the waters in my decision making.

26-01-2009, 13:37	#17
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Quote: Originally Posted by hw3004 No YSP-900 available to demo and the guy in the shop said that an amp and 2 speaker set up would be cheaper, better valus and better sounding than the YSP-900 or YSP-30D, which has muddied the waters in my decision making. But the 900 and the 30D are the same product except for the HDMI. The sales guy is correct that an amp and stereo speakers will be better for sound quality. Did he also tell you that a simple analogue stereo amplifier (i.e. not an AV amp) would kick the stuffing out of any AV amp up to twice the price? I think you're getting lost in all the options. You need to set your objectives and stick to them otherwise you're going to end up going round in circles. What do you really want? What are the true restrictions (not what you assume she might say). How much are you realistically willing to spend? If you were shown something substantially better how much extra cash could you find to pay for it?

28-01-2009, 09:20	#18
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost What do you really want? What are the true restrictions (not what you assume she might say). How much are you realistically willing to spend? If you were shown something substantially better how much extra cash could you find to pay for it? I want to improve the sound quality over what I get from the television's own speaker. I am willing to spend no more than £500. The restrictions are I don't want a 5 speaker set up. I've already got an amp and speakers in the room for my hi-fi, which I would prefer to keep as a separate entity from the tv set up .... but I maybe could be persuaded otherwise.

28-01-2009, 13:52	#19
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Quote: Originally Posted by hw3004 I've already got an amp and speakers in the room for my hi-fi, which I would prefer to keep as a separate entity from the tv set up .... but I maybe could be persuaded otherwise. OK, that's interesting. Would you consider yourself as a serious music enthusiast?

28-01-2009, 16:49	#20
hw3004 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost OK, that's interesting. Would you consider yourself as a serious music enthusiast? Fairly serious....but a music enthusiast rather than a hi-fi buff (if you know what I mean). The music set up is a TEAC Amp, Teac CD, Numark Mixer and 2 additional CD decks, B&W speakers....and a rarely used turntable. I watch a fair amount of music television/ DVDs so, if forced to choose I would tend to go for something that would enhance this over films (although obviously I want both).

29-01-2009, 13:06	#22
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	Quote: Originally Posted by Fullychoked One thing to note though, When switching on Sky, the YSP-30D selects DVD as the AV Input, so just using the Sky Remote is not an option (unless someone can tell me differently?) Do you mean that you don't know how to use the Sky remote to switch inputs on your television? Press the TV button, then repeated presses of the Help button will work the same way as repeated presses of the AV button on your TV remote control.

30-01-2009, 12:48	#23
Fullychoked Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2	Hi, I guess I didn't explain that properly. (I hope we're not going too far off topic here) When I want to watch Sky, and I switch on the satellite, the YSP, if in standby, always reverts to the 'DVD' AV Input. I then have to use the YSP Remote to select 'STB'. What I really want is the YSP to default to 'STB' as that's what is used most often, and then I can just use the Sky Remote (as it's very Wife friendly). however there doesn't appear to be a setting that does this on the YSP I know it sound l like incorrect wiring , but believe me, I've tried everything! All HDMI controls are set to 'On' on the TV & Blu-Ray. The YSP is set to switch HDMI control - There isn't a setting on SkyHD. Any advice would be really appreciated.

31-01-2009, 11:14	#24
Willie Wontie Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,847	deleted

DS Forums

Surround Sound Advice Required

31-01-2009, 17:28	#25
jeppa Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sunderland Posts: 385	I have a wall mounted 47" Philips lcd and bought a Philips Soundbar to be mounted underneath, extremely happy with the way it looks and it sounds great.