Ok, now I have never been a fan of Ray Quin... but come one!! He's in his early twenties I'm guessing and he's already achieved:

dancing championships,
X Factor finalist among thousands of entrants
Performing on live TV weekly
Acted in Brookside (if I remember right)
Acted in the West End
Had a fantastic first week skating

If he was in America they would champion him but in Britain we knock anyone that is half decent and support the underdog!

I secretly love the underdog but at the end of the day we have so many talented young people and our press is just waiting to pull them down. I'm not a fan but Ray is an example of someone who is obviously talented and enthusiastic.

Why don't British people take pride in its talent instead of supporting British underdogs and buying American?

This is what I have said on all the bashing ray quinn threads.

We (Not me - I love a winner) seem to take delight in trying to bring down high achievers, and love to support losers.

I think we are the only nation in the world like this

But in fairness, someone as confident and talented as Ray versus someone who struggles like Todd, I know who needs the support more.

Although I can't denine that we like to criticise that decent dancers/skaters, DWTS has been quized too for some of their participants. Kristi Yamaguchi was on two series ago and she was often criticised by people for having suposive dance experience...might not just be us then

But she still won. I don't think she would here.

Maybe Ray needs the support, considering Todd wasn't even in the bottom two on Sunday. I know who I'd rather watch

Needs v deserves: You pays your money (phone bill), you takes your choice.

Well Ray wasn't in the bottom two either, and what makes Ray deserve it more? Just because he's better, doesn't mean Todd isn't trying just as hard.

We're voting for the best - not the most needy.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anybody who follows American sport even slightly knows how they respond to anyone who they feel is talented but too arrogant with it. It's not a uniquely British thing at all.

When it comes to international competition, where we see them more often, it dampens down, because they're much more patriotic than we are, but don't you believe for one second that Americans will whole-heartedly support talented people just because they're talented.

Really? As an American, I find that interesting. Regarding Kristi winning, yes, she has a huge fan base, but so did several others. What it came down to was that she was the best. Even viewers that I know didn't like her still admitted that. To me, any talent show viewer should try and act like a judge. Be objective and vote for whoever you think deserves to either continue or to win.

But it wasn't just because she was the best...she was very likable, not arrogant at all, even when the judges gave her a hard time about her performance, she just put her head down and got on with it. Unlike the Cheetah Girl (whose name I can never remember)...she was also a great dancer, but her attitude was horrible and she acted like she expected to win (at least, that was the perception). She also had a large fan base, but it still couldn't overcome her personality. So she went out in the middle of the competition.

Of course if there was a dance off, she probably would have won, whether the public wanted her there or not.

I think part of the Anti-Ray thing is that even if the public don't like him, there's no way the judges are letting him go. So the perception is that he'll win no matter what the voters do.

I support talented people. I cheered our paralympians on non stop. I supported Damien Hill in F1 and, until he retired, Coulthard. I'm a tennis fan, I don't like Murray as a person but can admire his tennis talent and cheer him on to win.

[quote=Tasi;30136620]I support talented people. I cheered our paralympians on non stop. I supported Damien Hill in F1 and, until he retired, Coulthard. I'm a tennis fan, I don't like Murray as a person but can admire his tennis talent and cheer him on to win.[/QUOTE

Me too, although as he gets older he's toned down a bit, so is becoming more of a good role model. A few years ago he used to remind me of a swearing young McEnroe. Excellent tennis player though (I think our best for years)

Have to agree with the OP too. Its a shame people can't get past the fact that Ray is a cheeky guy who enjoys life and challenges. Shame because he is a talent.

We're asked to vote for who we want to stay - which could be by any criteria we as individual voters choose.

i think that there are two types of people who watch/vote in these types of programmes...

1. people who are driven and motivated to succeed and win who will vote for the person they feel is the best.

2. people who are more laid back and like to be entertained who may be more inclined to vote for the underdog.

Nothing wrong with either of them and each to their own after all it's their own money they are voting with they can do what they want.

For me, though, I'm a number 1 and thinlk Ray is amazing and Todd should be out the door.

But what we are talking about isnt just a case of giving support to one rather than another.
All through this forum you can see Ray being verbally abused and heaped with vitriol just because he skated well. This happens time and time again. By all means support Todd if you must (who is never going to be a skater) but stop villifying anyone who is good just because they are!

However DOI is small fry. In principle I do think that if we get someone who is good, be it at sport or whatever we should be behind them encouraging them to do well. Let's have some winners in this country that we can be proud of, instead of trying to make out that mediocre second raters are better.
Last edited by blueabu : 15-01-2009 at 16:32

I think those who villify Ray do so not because he's talented ( & he is quite a talented guy) but mainly because they loathe his personality going back to the X Factor days.

I remember on XF forum that year all the abuse Ray got was not about his singing but more of what he looks like (munster etc) & his personality (cocky etc)...terrible!

No one can deny that Ray has so many talents (acting, singing, dancing) & had been acknowledged through the awards he received.

He started young in the entertainment business & has gained & achieved a lot......you can't say that to many of the young celebs these days who are only mainly good at filling tabloid pages.

Give the guy a break...all he's ever done is to become an achiever.

Because GBP don't like ambition, confidence, personality or talent. They support the underdog all the time.

I understand your point. But sometimes there are likeable people who have no talent and arrogant ones who do. Being objective, it seems more fair for the person who has the talent to remain and hopefully win. That's just my opinion, however.

There certainly seems to be a Brit tendency, to knock anyone who has talent; a love to pull the rug from under the feet of anyone who is good at anything. There seems to be an actual dislike of anyone who works their socks off to get to the top of their chosen activity.

I can never understand why someone should be slated (as they are) in reality programs like DOI and Strictly, for being too competitive. How is it possible to be too competitive in a competition? That's the whole point of them (even competitions disguised as "light entertainment").

It seems to me that as a nation we don't want people to be competitive or talented; is it a a form of jealousy, or maybe we/they actually get pleasure seeing them do badly.

Now just substitute the word 'arrogant' for 'confident' and you will have it right!

One day people will be able to tell the difference. (Well at least I live in hope)

As far as I can tell, no-one has complained because he's "too talented", they are complaining because his experience is giving him a massive advantage over the others, who might be just as naturally talented.

In fact, I'd say that the people who are unsure about him having a massive head-start when it comes to learning the skills of ice-dancing are the ones who would like the show to be about rewarding natural talent. A complete novice with equal natural ability will be lucky to reach Ray's current standard by the finals.

That's not anti-talent, that's pro-fairness, and pro the competition element being interesting.

Personally, I think we have to accept that the producers decided Ray was allowed to enter, so there's little point in complaining about that. I do think there are advantages to having someone able to skate very well from the start, but I also think it spoils the competition side. It's not because I'm anti-talent, and it's quite presumptious to assume that I am.

You're right of course - I have no problem with those who vote to keep Todd in, and it's almost certain he will be there for some weeks to come, if only because of the sympathy vote. But why is it acceptable to vote for the worst skater, yet the best of the bunch attracts so much bile?

I'm not directing this question at you - I'm not aware that you've made any anti Ray posts - but it is a genuine question to the Ray haters.

I don't see why the worst skater should receive bile. So long as they are putting the effort in to learn and they are pleasant, then they all deserve respect.

As far as I can tell, the negative comments Ray is receiving is about people who didn't like him and still don't. When he was getting it in the neck during X Factor it wasn't because he was the most talented. Far from it. I found his performances on X Factor painful. Whether or not it's right he's on DOI, at least he's not singing.

It's an entertainment show based on celebrities learning to skate. The winner does not go on to represent the UK at the Olympics, so I don't see why we should be expected to vote for the "best skater" if we think they are a horrible person. I don't think anyone on the show is horrible, but why can't we reward improvement or effort or general entertainment value?

That isn't about hating talent, it's about having a bit of perspective regarding the objectives of the show. If you only want to see the most talented skaters, you shouldn't be watching a show that is about people learning to skate. Write a letter to ITV asking them to do a show with only professionals.