Hi all,

As we are reassured by Humax via Bob_Cat (if I interpret his replies correctly) that the HDMI switching fault is Panasonic's problem, has anyone approached Panasonic about this behaviour?

If they have opened a case, have they had a satisfactory response from Panasonic?

(To recap: when the Humax PVR comes out of sleep to record a programme by itself, (some) Panasonic TVs will kindly switch over to the Humax HDMI input, thus disturbing your viewing...)

Taliska

It's not just Humax that do this with Panasonics. I use this feature in CI, to make the otherwise appallingly difficult Vieras behave in a proper way. Connect an AV amp to HDMI and when you turn it on, TV swtches to HDMI, turn it off, it reverts to TV. Lovely job. If the Humax is connected via an AV amp, or any other switch, the 'problem' goes away, switches and amps do not respond to the HDMI command.

Funny you should mention getting an HDMI-capable AV amp but that was somewhere on the list of things to replace at some point...

I was thinking about it last night again - why does the Humax chatter along the HDMI line when it comes out of sleep to record stuff? Surely it should't need to put anything out on the line if it doesn't need to put a picture on the screen... I figure then that it might be possible for Humax to fix.

Taliska

I would suggest that this is a 'fault' with the Humax box - even their old 8000 single tuner Freeview PVR does exactly the same - when it starts a timed recording it forces pin 8 of the SCART socket high, forcing the TV to that SCART input. This is completely the wrong behaviour for a recorder, and presumably the Freesat PVR is the same, incorrectly forcing the TV to HDMI when it starts recording.

It can't be a TV thing, it must be a Humax thing.

The box is obviously sending *something* when it wakes up to record something, it's not coincidence that the TV switches over.

The way it should work is that the box sends *nothing* when it wakes up to record, it should have no possible reason to send anything at all down the HDMI.

The onyl way it could be a TV thing is if the TV is constantly monitoring for sound/pictures on the HDMI port and then switches over when it sees any sound/picture. Seems unliley though, it would be pretty silly to make it like that.

Difficult to see how Humax can make the box wake up and not turn on HDMI, how would it then react if you wanted to watch something else during the time it was recording. Believe me, all HDMI devices do this, a sky HD box does the same thing on a Panasonic, and an AV amp with a device on standby connected to it, ie no active signal, still HDMI switches a Panasonic. Solution, if you don't like it don't buy a viera, they're a pretty pox ridden device operationally. Good picture for the money, but the control is rubbish.

It can control it when it goes in and out of standby...


You hit the power-on button on the remote for the HDR and on the TV picture comes.


Solution surely is to get the problem fixed! Likelihood - pretty low by the looks

Solution - leave the Humax on 24x7 - how stupid is that!

Has anyone tried to raise this with Panasonic?

Taliska

So why is this only a problem on Panasonics? All the other TVs seem to manage fine without switching on.

Seeing as the problems are only with Panasonics, logic tells you Panasonics are the problem especially when other (eg Sky) boxes do it only to Panasonics.

It will never get fixed. Its a hardware fault with the TV.

It's a hardware feature, not a fault. For many people it's an asset, like me. It won't be fixed, no. So, let the thread be a warning to TV buyers. If you think this is likley to affect you adversely, buy a different TV. If you want your TV to switch to a live HDMI source, everything's good.

Other TVs switch fine when you power on the source but not when the source records.

Panasonic seems to be the only TV that thinks the source recording is the user wanting to view a program.

Yes I know, nothing that can be done still.

Most sets don't auto-switch to HDMI, like I said before the Humax shouldn't be telling the TV to switch, so the fault is with the Humax, not the TV.

So how come non panasonics are not affected and how come the same thing happens with sky boxes on panasonics?

Connect the Humax via HDMI 2 which does not auto switch, same as AV2 scart. This is how it works on my TH42PX70 anyway!

A whole bunch of digital data is exchanged when an HDMI enabled device wakes-up. It's not like the old SCART days when a single dedicated pin was pulsed. Whether its HUMAX's or Panasonic's interpretation of the HDMI specification (which you can download btw) that is at fault is impossible to say.

It might be worth reporting any interoperability issues directly to HDMI.org as their T&C mandates that users of the logo must comply with the spec.

I'm afraid that you're grossly over-simplifying the workings of the HDMI interface. See post above.

Different devices definitely respond differently to HDMI signals, and I think there is some standardisation work to do in this area. I am now on my third HDMI switch:
First one: two entry ports - slot 1 has priority over slot 2, so as long as slot 1 is active, then any attempts of a device trying to get attention from slot 2 will fail. This could be a good solution to the Panasonic problem reported in this thread.
Second one: I need to switch three HDMI devices, not two, so I changed the switch above for a three-entry "semi-automatic" type. It's then that I found my Philips HDD recorder craves attention and would suddenly switch its input to active for no reason, thereby cutting off what I was watching. Neither the Foxsat box nor my Zyxel HDMI media streamer have this problem, it's just the Philips HDD recorder. Strange
Third one: fully manual 3x switch - now the Philips can't screw things up, though of course it keeps trying.
Lessons that have learnt: DON'T wall mount your TV with only one buried HDMI cable on the assumption that you can easily switch the active HDMI device to this one cable.

It doesn't happen with my Pace Sky+ HD box and Panasonic TH42PX80 (HDMI connection), when the Sky starts to record when in standby.

It does switch to the Sky+ HD input when taking the Sky+ out of standby (HDMI connection).

Scart works the same way as HDMI, with my Sky+HD.

It does switch to the SCART input when using that, and a timer recording starts on my DVD recorder, because the recorder takes itself out of standby (why???).

I see no problem at the Panasonic TV end... so if it happens with anyone who has this Panasonic model, it looks like a control problem of certain recorders, which should not be switching out of standby when a recording starts (Sky+ HD doesn't, why do some others?).

In these days of energy saving, recorders should not be coming out of standby to fully wake up when it's not necessary (i.e. for timer recordings).

A lot of the interoperability issues were down to a lack of HDMI test centres, so manufacturers were unable to verify they had incorporated the spec correctly. Apparently this has been fixed (see this report). Also the HDCP requirements have made things much more complex. DRM buggers up the consumer again

Well this is news to me. I have a Sky HD box that takes control of the TV when switched on (as you would want) but not when the box itself wakes to perform a recording (which I understand is the problem here).

I've not tried the Foxsat with my Panny yet as I'm trialling it with a Toshiba in another room before (hopefully) ditching Sky (after BSG concludes). Interestingly I have the opposite problem with the Foxsat in that I can't get a picture out of it with HDMI if I switch it on when it is already recording - which I understand is a problem a number of other people have. I e-mailed Humax support about it a couple of weeks ago but as yet not even a "Thank You for e-mailing us" reply - it does make you wonder why some companies have support e-mail addresses.

So given that my Sky HD box works fine with the Panasonic I have and I have a completely different HDMI problem with the Toshiba I'm not overly confident that the Foxsat HDMI implementation is correct.

Can anyone explain why the Foxsat needs to signal the TV when it wakes up to record?

I think that is a perfectly reasonable question, and one that our friend Bob_Cat may well be able to answer. Let us hope he passes this way.

Taliska

The inner workings of HDMI are probably outside Bob Cat's area. My experience is entirely practical. Bear in mind the Pana's HDMI 1 2, and 3 if present operate differently, and operation with any particular device is not possible to say until it's connected. My HDMI connection experience is all practically based, rather than from the spec, I have connected literally thousands of HDMI plugs. Most of my installs involve AV recievers, partly because folks who have installs want surround sound, and partly cos it's a setup I have proved to work time and again, lends itself to custom install, and universal remotes, is reliable, and I need run only 1 HDMI cable, and that might be a considerable distance. For setup reasons, we often temporarily connect devices direct. I don't do many vieras for lots of reasons as I say. I would suggest any mid to high level setup consist of a Panasonic professional panel rather than a TV, or a Pioneer if you like it shiny. The pro panels have the full range now, 42, 50 and 58 in full HD, and the 65 if you must.... I trust nobody here wants a 103"? The 58 is gorgeous BTW. If you want your AV system to work reliably, that's how it is done. HDMI is just too unpredictable to muck around with if you depend on perfect working to get paid. Humax and Panasonic do not agree very well, nothing more to say.

I had this problem with the Foxsat HD, and made up an HDMI lead without pin 13 for the Foxsat HD. My new Foxsat HDR does have the problem, so it's cured for me.

Hi all,

Here are two solutions - one from Humax and one from Panasonic:

Humax's Tech support recommends setting the "Power Saving in Standby" option to OFF - effectively this prevents the Humax box chattering to the TV when it comes out of sleep, because it doesn't go to sleep fully - it just dozes off. Cons: the Humax doesn't go to sleep fully and costs you more to run: Pros: You can see the clock when it's dozing.

Panasonic's Tech Support recommends attaching the PVR to HDMI2, which does not auto-switch.

Two solutions, neither perfect, but at least the problem goes away. I've changed to using the HDMI2 connector.

I don't expect a proper solution to the problem from either company as there are acceptable workarounds.

Tweaking the cable by stopping the CEC signal is a nice idea, even if it is a little more work. Perhaps useful when neither of the above solutions work suitably well.

Taliska

Interesting. I had the problem with the Foxsat-HD into HDMI2, so maybe it is different on each model. As I (meant to) said above the Foxsat-HDR does NOT have the problem on either HDMI.
If you do not fancy making an HDMI cable, get one of those flexible right-angle connectors with a ribbon cable inside the joint. A sharp blade can cut the pin 13 connection.