OTT? Everything about that performance can be seen in Jodie's eyes. It's one of the best performances in any of the shows.

I had seen Connie perform before I saw her HDYSAPLM performances and was utterly disappointed. I think she's a fabulous singer and actress but that isn't shown in those performances.

While obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I am staggered that anyone could think that Jodie's performance of Send in the Clowns lacked subtlelty and stillness. I'd say subtlelty and stillness were its defining features.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sBlaHEUmg

As Jill says, everything is in the eyes. She barely moves. It was a tremendous performance.

As for Connie, I'd love someone to point me to a performance of hers on the show that demonstrated great acting. I always thought she was a good performer and a fab singer, but her acting never impressed me. For instance, compare Connie's performance of As Long As He Needs Me to Jessie's, Jodie's or Rachel's and I think there's a marked difference in the quality of acting she shows.

Laurie, if you like Jodie singing Send In The Clowns On IDA I think this is even better:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-Lt0...eature=related

Not loving Jodie. The eyes are doing something but the voice is doing something else and the acting looks like acting like what you think acting should be at that moment to me.

From what I have heard and liked Jessie sings lyrics better than Connie or Jodie and evidentally her acting has moved on too ( Little Night Music ticket is on the sideboard so havn't seen her act yet) I don't think Connie can only play herself though. She did a pretty good Julie Andrews at SOM and her ITV play at Christmas was someone else again. She wasn't the best actress on HDYSDAM but she made herself look like the role even if the relationships and the story might work better with someone else. Jodie just looks like Jodie being Jodie to me.

Suppose its all in the eye of the beholder.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OHHDjP...eature=related

Jessie. Clowns (after maybe) Before she got to watch one of the best people in the business doing it in front of her nightly.

If Jodie was singing the full version we could have a sing off in stereo.....

The point about Connie acting might be visible (or not depending on what you like) in another contrast (first song both youtubes)

Aoife's on a stage in Leicester Square being filmed on a camera Connie is at the Royal variety being filmed by the BBC.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3ToL7p6HL3Q

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pbaG61nqt2g

Perhaps this is the wrong way to cast a role then. People shouldn't really be surprised as they can't know who the public will vote for beforehand. Although I'm sure people would still find fault if the runner-up had won instead.

I don't think the TV casting process is at fault (it scored two major successes with Connie Fisher and Lee Mead). The problem was with IDA. They got rid of the vocal coach on the panel (replacing her with a 'performer' who seemed to spend the whole time ogling the girls in an unsavoury manner/coming across as a stereotypical 'dirty old man') and allowed John Barrowman to behave like a bully/spoiled brat, chucking his toys out of the pram whenever things weren't going his way. Had IDA kept the format (and vocal coach) of the previous two series, it would likely have produced a much more professional winner, judged on her performance skills rather than personality.

Sorry, but it did/does nothing for me. Then again, I think Jodie grates, full-stop! There's just something I find deeply annoying about her - and bringing out an 'autobiography' isn't exactly making me thing of her as a serious WE performer!

Incidentally, I thought Connie's performance of ALAHNM(which I watched again recently) wiped the floor with Jodie and most of the IDA girls!

Connie's ALAHNM is awful. Not her type of song at all. Every one of the IDA girls did it better. Of the Marias both Abi and Aoife could probably do it far better than Connie too.

By that definition neither is John Barrowman.

Would that be the same vocal coach who didn't think Connie or Lee should win? The same judge who told Lee he was 'a bit rubbish' and Daniel needed to completely change the way he sang.

John Barrowman does nothing but advise and support the contestants both on and off camera as Daniel, Keith, Ben, Jodie, Sarah, Rachel and Sam can all atest to. After the competition he then regards them as contemporaries. I think he the best and most accurate judge.

Your spot on about Barry Humphries though.

The only one who fitted that bill and performed well though was Sarah. She was portrayed as too small and too sweet for the role though she acts far better than Jodie. All the other established professionals underperformed or were allowed to or were given dire material. Rachel looked wooden though she's done well since, Tara looked inappropriate though she now seems much more talented than she showed. Francesca couldn't impress in that format. Part of the reason for that may have been that they never wanted an established professional winner - the choice was between Jodie - the traditional variant with the common vote friendly touch - or the younger vulnerable version they really wanted which Jessie could have done perfectly well given she's managed an even more difficult role in the same time.

Barry's judgement to me seemed spot on despite the innuendo - moreso than anyone else on the judging panel because he alone understood what was wanted and had the experience to agree with CM and ALW who had the star quality. Barrowman as before invented problems where none existed and had the nerve again to comment on other people's acting ability.

I thought she said some silly things and ought to have sorted out some of the girls performances a lot more but its not that indefensible not to want Connie or Lee to win (though after Lee sings the show out after he has won so brilliantly it may have been with him ) Neither was what the initial requirement called for (credible tom boy/ boyband Joseph) both have had other people in their competitions perform the role really well and Helena is arguably a better singer than Connie and she hasn't had problems doing 8 shows a week.

I don't think it is either - I never wanted either to win, and still think neither were the best. The poster I quoted said Connie and Lee were the best winners and the reason IDA didn't do as well was the loss of a vocal coach.

I think there's a good 6 or 7 IDA girls could have played Nancy, all 12 Josephs could have managed that role, and top 6 Maria's could have played her. But that makes boring televison. Also as most will find in their career if you don't do well at the audition you don't get the job.

Also Lloyd Webber makes bonkers song off decisons which generally mean there is only one strong candidate in the final. Whether or not they have done well since, Jessie, Sam, Keith and Lewis all looked weak compared to Lee and Jodie.

When did John Barrowman bring up problems that didn't exist? He generally tells it like it is. The Josephs who supported him on his tour he criticised on ADWD, he did hesitate to criticise Daniel Boys, yet they've done a duet on John's new album, and when introducing him he refers to Daniel as 'my great friend'. He criticised Jodie, Sarah, Sam, and Rachel when necessary.

Maybe it's just me but I've heard ALW give criticism and think what are you talking about. Like saying the award winning Daniel Boys couldn't hold an for two hours. I occasionally think I didn't pick up what John was seeing but most of the time he's spot on.

Well, the major objection to all this is that the vocal coach you speak of, who you believe would have produced a 'more professional winner' was actually supporting Jodie for the win. Zoe was interviewed before the final and she made it very clear that her choice was Jodie.

I should probably make it clear at this point that by the time it came to the final, I wanted Jessie to win rather than Jodie, though I'd supported both of them more or less equally up to that point. However, I object to the suggestion that Jodie wasn't professional and lacked performance skills. There is no basis for this argument. Who was vocally more consistent than Jodie? Sarah certainly (though personally I don't think her physique and vocal timbre were very suitable for the role). Jessie maybe (though arguably there were other, non vocal problems there).

Certainly not Sam or Niamh who had tuning issues all the way through the competition. Rachel, though a tremendous actress was inconsistent vocally and I remember some dreadful cracks. None of the rest were really what you would call front runners. Jodie had one substandard week very early on and after that she delivered every single week.

You raise the issue of personality and it was most definitely a factor here. However we all know that these shows are half talent, half personality contests. It's worth remembering that the two previous winners had advantages that had nothing to do with their performance abilities. Connie was certainly advantaged by the fact that she looked so much like Julie Andrews. Would Lee have been so popular if it weren't for his extraordinary looks? However, I believe all three were worthy winners.

Whether it was genuine or not (and I still haven't worked out which), Jodie managed to project a personality that people warmed to. If genuine, fair play to her, if not, well she's a smart girl who worked out the rules of the game and played it tactically. Given the stakes, I would never hold that against her. I think that Rachel and Keisha, both of whom I really rated, didn't do as well as they should have because they failed to engage the viewing public.


I think this is important. You didn't like her (which is fair enough) and this can have quite an impact on how you view her. Personally, I was never able to appreciate the work of Keith Jack as much as I might have.

While I do agree that ALW has made bonkers sing off decisions, can you really argue that Jessie looked weak compared to Jodie in the final?

There's certainly an argument to be made (though I'm not necessarily making it) that Jodie outperformed Jessie throughout the series. However, Jessie's performances in the final, her Truly Scrumptious, As Long as He Needs Me and The Man that Got Away, were by many reckonings three of the best performances of the entire series.

I maintain that Jodie was low balled a bit when it came to the song choices she was given for the final, so it wasn't exactly her fault, but based on the final alone, Jessie outperformed her. No way was she weak.

I think the 'advice and support' comment should be qualified by 'if he likes them'. He was very unfair in his treatment of Jessie and never gave her credit for anything really. This error in judgement became really clear to me when I realised that he would have cast Niamh as Nancy before Jessie. If you compare the quality of their respective ALAHNMs, Jessie is just streets ahead vocally and in terms of suiting the role. I think he really let his personal prejudices run away with him then.

Also, towards the end of the series John made a habit of crucifying Jessie for things that he'd just let Sam away with. (Diction one week and emotional connection in the semi final). He didn't play fair with her.

Oops double post (and I've already made plenty )

Gorgeous.

Sorry that was what I meant, by they got to the final Jessie was seen as far weaker, mostly by rubbish song choices (which always puzzles me) and I think for me the way she reacted to criticism - I thought she crumble slightly.She was seen as only being able to sing ballads, whereas Jodie had proved herself with fast and slow songs.

I also think our perception of judges comments is coloured by what we think of the performance. So I thought ALW was horrible to Daniel, Ashley and Jodie. And thought his support for Lewis in particular and for Jessie and Sam a bit off the wall. I still can't believe he was raging about a Niamh/Keisha sing off, but not bothered by Sarah/Rachel.

I never had a problem with JB not picking Sam up for her diction, as I didn't see it as a problem. I do have a problem with his comments to Sam in the semi final. I saw an interview with JB and he said on Jodie first audition for the panel he said he thought she would win. I think after Sarah had gone and Rachel had been in the bottom two he saw Jessie as Jodie's biggest competition and wanted rid of her - I think he promoted Sam and Niamh to get rid of Jessie. Which frankly I don't have a problem with as ALW does the same, only he actually gets rid of people.

I think thats true for all the judges. Although that doesn't make it right.

Agreed. On both counts.

I think we're more or less in agreement here, except that I rated Jessie and even Sam a bit more than you. Could never understand the Lord's love for Lewis and lack of appreciation for Daniel . The trajectory across the three series is quite clear though. He was happy for the solid professional to win Maria but after that he became more and more invested in finding a talented unknown. By the time of IDA he'd got to the stage where the benefit of the doubt was handed right, left and centre to Niamh, Sam and Jessie and the profs like Sarah, Fran and Ash were giving good performances only to be pulled to bits. Rachel slotted into the role that Lee had occupied in ADWD, the insurance policy candidate, the professional Andrew was happy with if the young'uns failed to deliver.


Hmm, interesting. I always thought that John's treatment of Jessie was always somehow connected to his treatment of Niamh and particularly Sam. He seemed to be considering them as being involved in their own private competition - and he was damned if Jessie was going to come out on top. By the time it came to the semi-final, every comment he made to Sam involved comparing her favourably to Jessie. I thought he had decided that there would only be one teenager in the final and he was going to make damned sure it wasn't Miss Buckley.

It's worth remembering that John wasn't always such a Jodie supporter. In big band week he named her as not his Nancy. Though thinking about it, he could hardly have named Jessie that week because she'd been praised to the high heavens for her performance and he didn't particularly want to name anyone else as he was quite fond of them all.

By the time we got to the semi-final, both John and Andrew/Cameron didn't mind which one of three girls won the competition, so long as Jessie (in John's case) and Jodie (in the other) didn't. They seemed happy to compromise in the semi final, promoting both Rachel and Sam, only to have that little plan scuppered by the fact that these two made up the bottom two. At that point, I think both parties decided to throw their support behind Jodie/Jessie, less because they wanted them to win and more because they thought they had the best chance of beating the undesirable Nancy. It all worked out for John anyway.

I like Jessie, Niamh and Sam now just can't believe they were three of the top 5. If I were ranking the final 12 they would be all gone by week 6. And I think they were the best group of youngsters on any of these shows. Although the best individual in my opinion was Ben in ADWD.

If and it's a big if I'm trying organise a trip to London to see a couple of shows and I'm definately considering A Little Night Music. Jessie's reviews have been excellent.