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Old 18-01-2009, 14:23
no1droogie
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I was signing on just before christmas and the last time i signed on the person who signed me on says the next time your due back is the 17th January. Which i never thought twice about as it meant nearly a whole month before i was due to go back. However as time went on i realised actually its a week later than usual and the 17th is a Saturday. I normally sign on on a Friday so i just assumed its a mistake on their part.

So i phoned up and asked them if ive to go sign on on Friday and the person after looking into says i should have actually been signing on on the 9th of January. Something about they couldnt sign me on last week so they booked me in for the 19th of January at 9.30am. I asked if that meant i would get paid for that time as i never even had a letter or phone call from anyone asking why i wasnt there. She just said it would be up to a ' decision maker '.

So im not really sure what to do or say when i go tomorrow. Its not my usual signing on day and how do i say to the people at reception that i should have signed on over a week ago? Plus theres a really good chance that the person who signs me on ( if they do ) will be the person who usually signs me on and i dont wanna get into an argument about being told the wrong date.

Its like my word against theirs thing, and if ive gotta go back on Friday again i really dont wanna make things more awkward.
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Old 18-01-2009, 14:32
x_malibubabe
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If you don't attend they automatically sign you off...that's what they did with me when I was on it.
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Old 18-01-2009, 14:48
no1droogie
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Well the person i spoke to on the phone automatically told me when i was next due to sign on (this friday) and gave me the next 3 dates after it where i was to sign on before she realised i hadnt signed on last week. She booked me in for tomorrow and said i should have got a leaflet before christmas telling me my next signing on date. I said i hadnt got one and was told the 17th of January, theres no way id make that up and im not wrong, thats what i was told.

I just dont want to get into this argument of my word against theres. Its not benefitting me in anyway. Its not like i thought id get a break for a week or anything. My point to them is why did no1 phone me? Why was no letter sent to me?
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Old 18-01-2009, 19:17
no1droogie
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Any advice at all?
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Old 18-01-2009, 19:25
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When I got messed around by incompetent staff at the job centre (eg saying I was late when I was sitting there and they failed to call me) I wrote a letter to the manager. It did the trick and everything was sorted out.

Tomorrow I think you'll just have to say you're there to sign on, do what you're told and then write to complain if things aren't okay. There's little point aruguing with the people on the desk. They're paid peanuts and the service reflects that.

If you write to complain you will need a record of what you were told and when (and ideally by whom - but if you don't know names then just say time and place).
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Old 18-01-2009, 19:25
DaisyBumbleroot
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Any advice at all?
what do you want us to say?

just tell them thats what you were told. you could have used your brain and worked out that 17th Jan was a long time til your sign on date... anyway - you will find out tomorrow.
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Old 18-01-2009, 19:34
no1droogie
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OK Daisy no need to be like that. Youd think with the number of posts youve accumulated youd have some actual advice.

Thankyour String. Its just when you go there its the same faces at the door and the same faces signing you on. This talk about a 'decision maker' too i can just see it being more complicated than ' just signing on '.
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Old 18-01-2009, 19:49
DaisyBumbleroot
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OK Daisy no need to be like that. Youd think with the number of posts youve accumulated youd have some actual advice.

Thankyour String. Its just when you go there its the same faces at the door and the same faces signing you on. This talk about a 'decision maker' too i can just see it being more complicated than ' just signing on '.
i did give you advice, i said you will have to see tomorrow,i was basically saying the same as -string- and i dont see what my post count has got to do with anything, is a high post count meant to mean your wise or something, soz if you didnt like my reply.
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Old 18-01-2009, 20:11
no1droogie
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Ok Daisy thats enough. Thankyou for your first post
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Old 18-01-2009, 20:31
Ginger Nut
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When I got messed around by incompetent staff at the job centre (eg saying I was late when I was sitting there and they failed to call me)
The first time I went to sign on they called my name out incorrectly 3 or 4 times. Imagine Ginger Nut being Ganja Newt. This happens to me all the time. I've said on here before that people just can't handle my uncommon but entirely straightforward surname.

It took me a while to realise they meant me. I thought the woman was going to have me thrown out when I pointed out she had got my name wrong. She gave me this marvellously dirty look as she checked my name and decided her pronunciation was much better.
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Old 18-01-2009, 20:48
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OK Daisy no need to be like that. Youd think with the number of posts youve accumulated youd have some actual advice.

Thankyour String. Its just when you go there its the same faces at the door and the same faces signing you on. This talk about a 'decision maker' too i can just see it being more complicated than ' just signing on '.
Well I'm not sure what a decision maker is in the context of JSA (I know what it is for DLA but that wouldn't make sense here). At a guess it's probably someone above the regular sign in staff who is there because the regular staff can't make any decisions.

If you want to be prepared you should type up (or write up if you haven't got a printer) what you were told and when. Then you have it if there are any problems. Just say to the people at reception that you're there to sign on and take it from there.

The decision you may have to make is whether or not you want the hassle of dealing with it. If you think it's a matter of principle and/or you need the money for food/heating/rent then you may think it's worth the effort it'll take to get it sorted. If you want the money for weed and booze (not suggesting you do but some posters on here have said that is how they spend their JSA) then it might not be worth it.
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Old 18-01-2009, 21:22
no1droogie
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But what should i say at the reception?
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Old 18-01-2009, 21:34
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But what should i say at the reception?
I can't say anything other than what I've already said above.
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Old 18-01-2009, 21:47
womer_uk
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But what should i say at the reception?
I'd simply say you were told not to sign on until now.

You MUST type or write out what happened and at what time and take this with you tomorrow with your name and NI number at the top and ask this to be forwarded to the AO, (sorry decision maker) in regard to your case.

The AO will probably knock back your dole money for that week unless you show, "good reason" for not signing on, thats why you need to write it down what happened before you go, otherwise the AO only has ev from them not you.

Good luck with it

John
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:00
no1droogie
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The way the woman on the phone said it to me was that i should sign on tomorrow at half nine and shed book me in for it. So i dont know if that means theyll be expecting me tomorrow or not (if theyll have my forms, signing on cards prepared or not). If they did i could just go in and act as if i was just signing on as normal but i feel i should explain something to them at reception. Everything was verbal, i dont wanna have to go to the person that signed me on and say BTW you told me to come back last friday. All that does is create a 'my word against theres argument which i really dont want'.

Tomorrow when i go i was just going to say when i last signed on before christmas i was told to come back last friday and sign on, however i thought this was odd and was told that i should have actually signed on on the 9th. My cards come under the R Cycle ( something they told me on the phone) and they dont start signing anyone on the R Cycle again until Monday. So the person on the phone booked me in for half 9 monday morning.


I know it makes me look like a complete idiot. I was just hoping someone could have given me a better way of wording it when i go in there. Sometimes if i get agitated im not good at speaking and saying what i mean. The people at reception dont even speak anyway. They just take the booklet off me and tell me to go sit down. I done a lot of contract work and throughout the year i need to sign on until the next job starts. In all my years doing this ive never once had a conversation with these people.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:09
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We've told you:

1. Say you are there to sign on.
2. Write up what you were told when and where so you can hand it to them if you need an outline of why you haven't signed on for a month.

If you go there without having written up what you were told and when then you may run into problems and you will have to send a letter to the job centre manager to sort it out.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:16
womer_uk
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The way the woman on the phone said it to me was that i should sign on tomorrow at half nine and shed book me in for it. So i dont know if that means theyll be expecting me tomorrow or not (if theyll have my forms, signing on cards prepared or not). If they did i could just go in and act as if i was just signing on as normal but i feel i should explain something to them at reception. Everything was verbal, i dont wanna have to go to the person that signed me on and say BTW you told me to come back last friday. All that does is create a 'my word against theres argument which i really dont want'.

Tomorrow when i go i was just going to say when i last signed on before christmas i was told to come back last friday and sign on, however i thought this was odd and was told that i should have actually signed on on the 9th. My cards come under the R Cycle ( something they told me on the phone) and they dont start signing anyone on the R Cycle again until Monday. So the person on the phone booked me in for half 9 monday morning.


I know it makes me look like a complete idiot. I was just hoping someone could have given me a better way of wording it when i go in there. Sometimes if i get agitated im not good at speaking and saying what i mean. The people at reception dont even speak anyway. They just take the booklet off me and tell me to go sit down. I done a lot of contract work and throughout the year i need to sign on until the next job starts. In all my years doing this ive never once had a conversation with these people.
If I was you I would go in tomorrow morning as asked.

You don't have to tell reception BTW, only the clerk dealing with you claim can do anything, the receptionist couldnt do anything for you anyway.

When you see the clerk, just write down this and give them it .....

I last signed on before christmas (DATE HERE) and was told to come back on January 16th and sign on.

However I thought this was odd and was told that I should have actually signed on on the 9th. My cards come under the R Cycle (something they told me on the phone) and they dont start signing anyone on the R Cycle again until Monday.

(Give date and approx time here, and name if poss)

Remember to remind the clerk about this and give them the statement you've typed up.

This means it's taken out of the clerks hands and must be referred to a Decision Maker (they used to be called AO's or adjudication officers)

So long as YOU can show "good Reason" and you should with the letter.

This also means the clerk can't ask you any questions as it's in the AO's hands not his

Good Luck
John
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:31
no1droogie
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But this is exactly my point.When i go in with my cards. They take it off me and take me off to the signing on room. There is another room but this is for people with appointments to see specific members of staff or have interviews etc. From what ive gathered ive been told to sign on tomorrow at half past 9. I wasnt told to go see a specific member of staff.

Its the same person that signs me on every fortnight. So if i go to him and say everything to him and give him the statement then i basically am saying that hes lied to me, and im saying it to his face. Thats the kind of confrontation i dont want. I know reception cant do much but id rather explain it to someone so they know my circumstances, maybe i should say that i was booked in for half 9? That way they could check their books and make sure?
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:40
Izak
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I'm not sure on this as I work for the Income Support section of the Job Centre, but from what I've heard, you'll probably have to fill out a 'Rapid Reclaim' form. Explain what happened and they may back pay you.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:43
no1droogie
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But isnt that if your signing back on? From what im aware im not even signed off and i was told to go back in on Friday at my normal time and sign on as usual.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:49
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But isnt that if your signing back on? From what im aware im not even signed off and i was told to go back in on Friday at my normal time and sign on as usual.
So go in and sign on and give them your written account if there are any problems.

You keep repeating the same thing - are you actually reading any answers?

womer_uk has been really helpful and even written your account for you.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:55
Scaramouche
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But this is exactly my point.When i go in with my cards. They take it off me and take me off to the signing on room. There is another room but this is for people with appointments to see specific members of staff or have interviews etc. From what ive gathered ive been told to sign on tomorrow at half past 9. I wasnt told to go see a specific member of staff.

Its the same person that signs me on every fortnight. So if i go to him and say everything to him and give him the statement then i basically am saying that hes lied to me, and im saying it to his face. Thats the kind of confrontation i dont want. I know reception cant do much but id rather explain it to someone so they know my circumstances, maybe i should say that i was booked in for half 9? That way they could check their books and make sure?
I expect they've booked you for a late signing appointment. It takes more time to see someone who's signing late because as well as going through the usual rigmarole they also have to establish whether or not you had good cause for not attending.

The alternative is that they've booked you in for a rapid reclaim as your claim will have been closed if you didn't sign within five days of your due date.

Put what you've told us in writing and ask them to reopen your claim as it's been closed in error due to the bad advice you were given. You're not accusing the member of staff of lying, you're saying they made a mistake.

Of course this may still come down to your word against theirs if you don't have anything in writing. Worst case scenario is they won't believe you and you'll lose three week's money. Be polite but assertive and ask to speak to a manager if that happens.

If that doesn't achieve anything go through with the rapid reclaim and put your complaint in writing.

All you can do is state your case and represent yourself as well as possible, there's no guarantee that it will succeed. Being polite but firm is your best bet.
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Old 18-01-2009, 22:55
no1droogie
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Yes im reading the answers! Im best just going and explaining the situation as it is in my head. Ill write everything out though and take it with me. I was only trying to explain everything out just incase i was booked in to see one of the other members of staff as opposed to the signing on staff. But maybe theyll be aware. Maybe the 'decision maker' be there too.

I just thought it would have been best to explain all this to reception so they know my situation and can take me to someone who can deal with it and make them aware that i was to see a decision maker. Ill just see what happens tomorrow. At the end of the day im not in the wrong.
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Old 18-01-2009, 23:01
no1droogie
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I expect they've booked you for a late signing appointment. It takes more time to see someone who's signing late because as well as going through the usual rigmarole they also have to establish whether or not you had good cause for not attending.

The alternative is that they've booked you in for a rapid reclaim as your claim will have been closed if you didn't sign within five days of your due date.

Put what you've told us in writing and ask them to reopen your claim as it's been closed in error due to the bad advice you were given. You're not accusing the member of staff of lying, you're saying they made a mistake.

Of course this may still come down to your word against theirs if you don't have anything in writing. Worst case scenario is they won't believe you and you'll lose three week's money. Be polite but assertive and ask to speak to a manager if that happens.

If that doesn't achieve anything go through with the rapid reclaim and put your complaint in writing.

All you can do is state your case and represent yourself as well as possible, there's no guarantee that it will succeed. Being polite but firm is your best bet.
But when you do a rapid reclaim they take you into the other office where you actually deal with staff members. Your name is also on the reception books. Thats what i wasnt sure of. If im booked in to actually see someone or if ive just go in and sign on in the other office. The people at reception would just automatically take my books off me and take me to the signing on office, so i felt it best to explain my situation when i got there.

I did not know they signed you off after 5 days. Since it is a Friday i usually sign on then 2 days ago would have been the time where they signed me off? Or would that be done on day 6......ie tomorrow? The person on the phone i spoke to told me the next 3 signing dates that im due to sign on. Im sure if i was signed off it would have been on her computer and she would have informed me of that.

As most of you know i am going self employed in the near future to start my own business. But im not losing money when ive done nothing wrong, so if i need to send in a written complaint i will. I will try and be polite and firm.
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Old 19-01-2009, 19:09
no1droogie
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Well i got on fine. My original plan worked and all i had to do was sign a form telling them that it was a late appointment. My money will be in the bank on thursday.

I think they knew. When i walked in the doors they probably started panicking. They knew they were dealing with The Big Man lol. They probably thought oh we better give this guy his money before theres a riot
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