That may (or may not) be the case. It doesn't mean that the Humax is free from bugs that some would argue make it unfit for it's purpose.


I had an original Sky+ box that failed (after about 5 years), and I replaced it with a V2 box. Sky+ has not been perfect. But it never removed series links when the EPG was updated, it never failed to record following a power cut, it didn't prevent you from deleting files whilst recording, it didn't put folders into the recordings page that are an inconvenience to remove.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I left Sky for the reasons I did - but overall the Sky+ does give a better user experience than the HDR.


Then you probably are just one I certainly wouldn't want them to rush out releases with more bugs, but bundling everything into a single release - including a major new feature - actually makes it far more risky that they will introduce new bugs.

I would much rather they focused on one or two of the highest priority bugs at a time, get them fixed, tested properly, and have two or three releases over this last year.

Exactly the opposite. If its done as one update they have the opportunity to test the update as a whole with every change implemented back to back so if one update causes a problem with another its discovered.

If they do them incrementally and rush each ne out with limited testing time then the 1st time they'll know there's a problem caused by one update conflicting with another is when its been applied at the user end. This is what happened with PC game I used to play. An update was released and the game patched and it upset two or three other things in the game and so users were then complaining and waiting for another update, which then caused more conflicts and problems and so it went on and on and ...


Its only ITV HD that's affected. Far more serious is the non freesat scanning bug that wipes all schedules.

However, on a day to day basis, given most people don't rescan non Freesat channels, the Humax is a highly reliable PVR. In 2 years of ownership I've probably only missed 2 or 3 programmes that haven't recorded and I usually record 2 or 3 programmes per day every day and watch for up to 5 or 6 hours a day. The fact that my film folder now has 71 films archived in it should tell you I'm a heavy user. To me its very reliable.


Exactly. Its not perfect but on a day to day basis its a highly reliable recording machine for *most* users.


Exactly Maw. I know a lot of people with Sky boxes and they've had a lot of problems so its not just Freesat receivers. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.

I'd forgot about that - so that makes another bug which should have already been given a high priority fix (how that one slipped through the testing process I have no idea). I have a separate FTA box connected (as it is such a "faff" to switch modes on the HDR) to the Quad LNB so never delve into the non-freesat side of the box.

Disagree. Yes, it would push up the price of the development. But it doesn't follow that it wouldn't be economic.

It would mean that small companies without the financial backing would be unable to afford the development. But the rub for the larger companies that can, is that they (may) have increased sales.

2 years - surely you mean 1

Slightly off topic - I am on holiday for 2 weeks so have setup my ultra reliable Freeview PVR as a backup. Not expecting it to have recorded everything though due to the 30th September DTT retune which I obviously haven't done and the fact that there appears to be reports of reception issues the past couple of days from Sutton Coldfield (according to the Freeview forum). I was quite shocked when I was scheduling my recordings in that it came to just over 51 hours of programming in 2 weeks I never realised how much TV I watched

Most if not all of the problems should be fixable by a firmware update, I’ve emailed Humax this afternoon with my concerns, I will post the reply if they answer, would it be fair to say that the biggest issue is the HD schedules disappearing because that is my main concern, most of the other issues are workable around would that be fair to say, but not to say they should be ignored

I can see your point but they would have to perform very careful testing taking boxes with the firmware we have straight to the finished release.

The trouble is they seldom happens and the boxes they play with will have recordings and planned recordings made and set with the intermediate version that are not released.

Thus when the finished version is pumped out anything can happen.

This is why I think it is better to do a few e.g. 3 or 4 small releases a year and then judge their negative impact (if any).

Also of course better for public relations between Humax and their customer base who now all think we have been forgotten in favour of next years model.

Still one thing I suspect we can all agree on is that all we can do is talk and dream about new firmware for our boxes and whatever we post on any forum will not speed it up it release assuming it even exists yet in a stable form.

Automan.

I fully agree - I expect the programmer is working flat out . Let's also hope when it finally arrives it will be surprising us all with it's completeness and amazing functionality.

Patrick

There is a very big assumption there that an upgrade that would only address a couple of issues would have less testing than is necessary to both see that the problems have been resolved, and that no new problems had been introduced.

Plus, a firmware upgrade on a device like HDR is almost certainly going to be a complete replacement of the existing firmware image - unlike PC software that gets upgraded in place due to the constraints of distributing a large image and potential issues with aiding piracy. So the chances of a conflict with between different updates is close to zero.

I suppose if the ITV HD channel became a standalone channel on Freesat (possibly to coincide with the launch on Freeview) then this would be no longer an issue.

Well Humax actually told me on the phone that it was a problem with the scheduling of ITV and not the receiver, but I have not tried setting in a programme off BBC HD, because that’s a station on all the time.

I like many other am frustrated at the length of time this latest release is taking, and have just one simple point to make on the subject.

Apple recently released an iPhone firmware update. Within just 2 weeks, a bunch of amateur hackers have once again found a way to jailbreak this release, just as they have every other release, and 2 weeks us an unusually long time for these guys.

If a group of unpaid enthusiasts can do this in such a short timeframe, I just wonder why it takes a well paid team at Humax a year to not release an upgrade.

Not that I'm having a go at Humax you understand, just curious.

Makes ya think doesn't it!

Regards

Nick

I suspect that the reason Humax chose to go this route was that a lot of the changes for the major new features involve very highly integrated changes to other parts of the software that are being altered to provide bug/feature fixes.

As such they would not be in a position to release any changes until they are all complete and tested.

The alternative would have been to complete all bug/feature fixes and do a release before starting work on the new features.

Given the complexity of some of the issues involved (particularly the importance so many people seem to place on being able to delete at any time ) it probably got to the point where they decided that they could not delay starting work on the new features any longer and so it was necessary to bundle all the changes together.

Just a theory but it explains why their behaviour with regard to this model seems so different to that with the non-PVR.

1. The hackers likely only change one small aspect of the functionality. Quite likely it has only a few 'touch points'. What Humax are doing likely impacts the entire code base. It's like comparing replacing engine spark plugs with replacing the entire engine block.

2. Humax have to take far more care over what they are doing than the hackers. At the very least they can't afford to 'brick' every customer's PVR. They might also (although I have my doubts) be mindful of future upgrades.

Hackers have things relatively easy. In most cases they have far fewer side effects or consequences to worry about. They can trot out any old dross and usually get away without serious issues. If there are issues then what do they care? It's not their warranty and not their problem.

Having said that it does suggest something naff about the Humax development effort if they can't/won't release interim fixes. Any well designed and well implemented software project shouldn't be hard to fix. Issuing targetted fixes should not be a bigger risk than a complete re-release. There is such a thing as regression testing after all.

Most software houses issue interim updates. We do them all the time. It's not a trivial matter but nor is it rocket science. I suspect the problem here is management/marketing. Someone just refused to sign off on fixes on that branch of the code.

But I suspect the issue is just the nature of the beast. I know a couple of people who write software for consumer goods and it's not a 'nice' environment to work in. There seems to be huge pressure to get the next new thing out and little or no interest in helping existing customers. Probably because in most cases existing customers don't pay anything. The RoI is therefore how many people (like me) refuse to buy future product because of them failing to upgrade existing kit. I think that number is relatively low.

If as many people had the HDR as have iphones we would have a hacked firmware too by now and much more (a) functionality and (b) bugs too probably.

The Humax icord has already been hacked to open up its network functions, hopefully someone with appropriate skill and time will do the same for our HDR.

I was actually hoping that someone with the appropriate knowhow would do something especially on the HD schedules disappearing which is quite a big problem.

Well,I don't know about these updates,I spose when they are ready they are ready....Just bought a Panasonic dvd hdd recorder(to "compliment" my Panasonic tv) I know we all moan about different things on our playthings but comparing the Panasonic software/firmware withe the Foxsat HDR and the Humax 9200t I have to say both the Humax's features,epg's and general presentation,are a mile ahead of the Panasonic.Praps we should all be a bit more appreciative,I know I am now.

I would say that it doesn't matter how many features you have, if they don't work properly.

Now, to be fair, most of the features on the Humax do work very well. But there are problems, which I have been affected by, that I consider to be serious.

Other people will have different opinions, but I would gladly trade some features and presentation in return for getting rid of the most serious and annoying issues with the HDR.

A sentiment that many Sky HD owners would echo concerning their new EPG

The only advantage is that since Sky is a subscription service it has more incentive to issue upgrades and fixes. It still introduces nearly as many problems each upgrade as it fixes but gradually the worst bugs go away

Not a problem for me. I record several BBC HD programmes every week with no problem and I've not yet bothered with ITV HD.
Perhaps there were some things that I might have recorded if I'd realised in in time, but I think that is more ITV's problem than the Foxsat's.
a) The way that they are doing it is a pain - having to faff around with red-button interactive - I understand the issue, but its ITV's problem to solve
b) Frankly their HD offering is currently risible - just the very rare film or even more rare original drama. The schedule is barely worth a glance.

I really don't see how this is a Humax problem (although I suppose you aren't really saying that it is). It is an implementation choice if ITV's. The result is fragile. My Foxsat records proper HD channels with full EPG just fine!!

Now that would be worthwhile. I'd rather be able to push/pull Humax recordings to other storage than fanny around with fledgling "interactive" services - leave that for another generation product please Humax.

We bought it in 2008 when there were no "interactive" services available for the ethernet port, it wasn't part of my purchasing decision and I doubt it was for most others. I *did* fancy the idea of a PVR with network connectivity and that part could have been a doddle to implement. FTP service in a Linux-based box vs. to-be-decided interactive services..... let's take a guess which is probably the easier to implement by about two orders of magnitude.

Interesting, I have stuck in HolbyBlue in on BBC-HD (a repeat) and I will see if that disappears when The Bill and The Fixer does

And much of the football they show.

IMHO, ITV's HD implementation isn't that much of a pain - in some ways it's preferable. I like that if you go to watch something on ITV, you are immediately told that there is a HD broadcast of it. With BBC, you have to know to check a separate channel's schedule - and it may not be simulcast.

It would be better if it could be an alternate stream that was always automatically selected, rather than having to go through interactive.


A separate channel would avoid the issue, but it isn't ITV's fault that the Humax deletes scheduled ITV HD recordings when it does a channel refresh. That's bad implementation on Humax's part, and should have been addressed a long time ago.

Ah! I have a special filter in my brain for football..
... and DeadEnders, Holby, Casualty, Strictly, XFactor...

Football on TV: It's just a green raster with noise.
A random-number generator would be much less costly to run.


Can I recommend Last Chance to See, Later With Jools....

Totally agree! FTP, SSH, all those useful features of Linux are neutered.

As for software updates, one word:

modularity