Well I must say it's very amusing that this thread has got as long as it has
Thing is it dosen't seemed to have moved on at all from the first page, which is even more amusing

but we should ignore stuff he's done in the past which contradicts that view, and any suggestion to the contrary simply displays a lack of understanding of the concept of BB?

he bitched about people in the house that he didn't like or get on with (and is anyone here going to deny that Lisa was, actually, really very annoying) therefore we can conclude that he thinks its ok to beat children, and that he cares not a jot for children who are abused?

i accept yuor point up to a point, and as I've said before, you get that point across better than some Maisy, but i still think there's an unnecessary and leap of logic there.

and no - i'm not telling people how they should think, as I've wrongly been accused of as well, I'm simply calling it as I see it.

Iain

Hi Iain!

Actually, it's not that sinister, it is rather that my opinion resides at this level:

That is, Cam was/is a sort of walking contradiction, he quoted biblical dogma but enacted the contrary. I find him being less than honest when demonstrably supporting notions that his behaviour would suggest he has less than a grudging acceptance of. A sort of "Do as I say" attitude but not "Do as I do" one.

Therein lies the duplicity and hypocrisy of going down the christian biblical route, it's so often open to interpretation and ambiguity one really must be totally devout one way or another. This is where I find Cam wanting - he falls between the two stools.

thats all fair enough - but i do get confused when Ben talks about not understanding BB - and Disnae's point earlier about it being perfectly natural to bitch about people you're living with that you don't get on with - and then saying *ah - but Cameron doesn't own the house!* as if thats even vaguely relevant.


so he's human then....

Iain

Oh yes, definately. You, me and Goethe would agree on that Iain!

Yes..I deny that Iain.....From what I saw of her in the house she wasn't annoying at all.....Cameron simply took an instant dislike to her and in the typical way of the bully decided to never give her a chance....There are people who have met Lisa who's opinion I respect a lot higher than Cameron Stout......

No, you really don't understand, do you?

Indeed.

I don't think any of them ever gave Lisa a chance to be honest. It wouldn't have mattered if the new housemate was Mother Theresa reincarnated. They had already formed their insular banal little clique and that was that.

Agreed even as the 3rd coming she'd have been estranged by that lot!!
But nevertheless she was and is an appalling person as seen on BBLB afterwards and if you knew she'd aspired to what she got to do via BBLB for a very very long time then how SHE came across on BB was very accurate.
Boring, opinionated, been there , done that, let me tell you, SAS, Foreign Legion, Astronaut, Deity, what HADn't she done, brow beater, holier than thou, better than you, superior...
One of the main reasons Stout had a real go at her was he recognised an even bigger bigot than himself, and Cam doesn't like opponents.
Yer, she's really someone you'd ACTUALLY have as a personal friend in real life. I think not!!

But that was the point of what I said earlier. Its normal group dynamics. It happens in just about evey BB when they start someone a few weeks in. Look at the problem Josh had with Brian in BB2. The newcomer is at a disadvantage before they even set foot in the door. Lisa didn't exactly do herself any favours imo. She annoyed the hell out of me,but, to be fair , as you said, she had been told to stir things up. But the fact is people bitch about folk they don't get on with . Its normal. People bitch on here don't they ?

This is where I get fed up. Cam is always being done down as false..hiding his opinions etc but he patently was honest about Lisa.

Same as when he gets done down for not being the naive Island boy he was portrayed us when he quite patently did talk about his business trips to Japan , foreign travel etc.

He was as much a victim of C4 editing as anyone else.

Disnae' -- that's the dichotomy here re Cam.
He espoused christian forgiveness on one hand and laid into Lisa with the other. Hedging his bets a bit!
Lisa was far too full of her own worth irrespective - she was just the same out of the house as in.
When was it that Cam went on about his foreign visits when in the BB house? And his multi-lingual abilities? I recall scant of either.
That he was/is false is proven, that is, we have footage of his "difficult to repress actual self" manifest itself on many a few feet of video tape. He may wish to appear nice, to appear benevolent, but fails miserably. Not a bad aspiration though.

Josh wasn't bullied though.


People bitch, but they do not bully. You can't use that argument I'm afraid. In normal life, people can get away from their enemies. Lisa had nowhere to go.


Oh, you're not seriously suggesting that honesty is an admirable trait in this case? Apologist.


I don't care whether he was the real McCoy or whether he was cultivating an image to win votes. Either way, he's still a ****, IMHO.


Bollocks. The C4 edits completely glossed over much of Stout's late night unpleasantness towards Jon and Lisa. The fact is that BB does in many ways appropriate the conventions of soap opera and therefore requires a number of ongoing "storylines" to generate interest.

Sadly, BB4 was full of rather ordinary people who weren't particularly media friendly, and therefore the producers had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel for some stories e.g. reaching a cringe-inducing nadir by pushing a supposed "romance" between Stout and Steph, and then this "personal journey" bulls**t re. his trip to South Africa, which hardly rang true given his previous travelling experience.

Stout was a cultivated, manufactured winner I'm afraid and since he received a trip abroad, two weeks immunity from nominations to boost his profile and some highly selective editing in his favour, he simply cannot be described as a "victim" by any stretch of the imagination.

I couldn't have put that better about his trip to S Africa.
That really annoyed me, that and his "phone call" like he'd never been up in a "big silver bird of the sky" before. What rot!
Damn charlatan.

Too true, Maisymoo.

Again, it occurs to me that all the others (Jon, Federico, Ray, Nush, Lisa, Sissy etc.) were shown warts and all, with their good and bad points there for all to see.

Stout on the other hand benefitted from a continued fabricated image. The introduction video sees him walking around Orkney in wellies and in his office, which seems to be depicted as a very rural, small fry operation when in fact it's the office of a multi-national company.

The idea of his "personal journey" and "wide-eyed innocent abroad" demeanour is insulting to the intelligence. To say he is a victim of C4's machinations is rubbish basically.

With his two weeks immunity from nominations after going to Africa, he led a charmed life during the latter stage of BB4, despite the fact that when you look at those final weeks with the arrival of Lisa, conflict between Ray and Steph, an insipid burgeoning romance between Scott and Nush and the return of Jon, he was totally superfluous to the overall group dynamic.

If Stout had won after *all* his bad points were shown on the C4 broadcasts, then it would be fair enough. However, he didn't win because he was presented as a complete package - he won because a lot of really gullible people fell for the "nice guy" image.

Hi Maisy,

This thing about Cam and Christianity is that that doesn't mean he has to have achieved all christian ideals...the only perfect Christian according to the Bible was Jesus. The rest of them are just trying to match up and some are managing better than others. I don't expect him to be perfect as a christian but I expect him to try. I know you'll come back and say he's not trying very hard he said this , did that etc ...but I just see him as human. In some repects he's tried very hard to do what he thinks is expected of him eg celibate at age 32...that can't be easy.


re Cam and foreign travel

http://bigbrother.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds4162.html

Cameron reveals that he once took a course in Japanese etiquette before he went to do business in Japan

Cameron tells of a train journey in Morocco

Cameron is chatting about his journeys in Puerto Rico and South America in general but the sound is cut.

I can't remember him specifically talking about the languages but if he talked about learning japanese etiquete for his work surely that suggests international travel.

Then it's a shame that a lot of his behaviour was pretty inhumane, and it looks like he doesn't try. Just read his article on asylum seekers again - nasty piece of work.

Everyone has human frailties and many facets to their character. Most people *are* quite complex, contradictory beings.

However, there comes a point where you have to draw a line and say "That is not a nice person".


Maybe no one would actually want to sleep with him. I don't blame them.

which bit?

as far as I can tell, when people are put in that situation its only natural for people to bitch and not get on.

isn't that usually when BB is at its most entertaining?

you just seemed to be saying that Cameron (or anyone) shouldn't bitch because it wasn't his house?

why else did you say *ah - but it wasn't his house!*?

who *owns* the house isn't going to affect how people behave in that house is it?

and if i still don't understand, although I'm pretty sure I do, how about explaining it better rather than another of your one line put downs that say nothing?

Iain

i thought you said the producers put her in the house *to stir things up*?

surely, if the producers are as cunning as you've said they were, the best way to *stir things up* would be to put someone in who they thought might well annoy the others.

as it happens, I think they got it right.

as for not giving here a chance - you're probably right - but thats just classic group psychology. but just because they didn't give her much of a chance doesn't mean she wasn't annoying.

at the very least, its hardly that surprising her in your face, harsh unwelcoming exterior would create a less than favourable first impression. sure - if people had had longer to get to know her she might have softened up a bit, but that first impression wasn't that great I didn't think.

it seemed that she picked up on that, and after that adopted a bit of a *screw you* then attitude - perhaps with good reason, and that wasn't really a very likable side to her.

and the way she went on and on and on about herself, turning every conversation into one something about herself.

we used to have someone like that who worked here - we used to play a game, unbeknown to her, where we'd try to score points by getting her to mention certain topics that she always talked about - by starting conversations about things that were in no way realted and seeing how long it would be til she managed to turn it around.

she was very annoying too.

Iain

so you found her quite annoying too Maisy?

i was sure it couldn't just be me. me. me.....

Iain

as far as i know, the only bloke not to fail in this way was that bloke Jesus. the rest of us are fallable humans - again, i can see where you're coming from (contrary to popular belief I'd probably agree with the gist of a lot of it), but sometimes it seems you're expectations of Cameron are a bit higher than they need be.

example above - he's hardly a bad guy because he didn't go on about stuff he'd done before BB. so he played cards close to his chest - its not that big a deal - despite my inability to understand exactly how BB works, i do understand that its a competition to win £70,000, and as such, playing cards close to your chest might not be such a bad idea. to talk of him being a fraud seems to be stretching it a bit IMO.

Iain

Hmm not very nice weather today.

when you say *inhumane* are you exaggerating?


True, and Cameron may not be that nice a person.

But equally i don't think he's the monster you seem to want to believe he is, and I can't help wondering why people feel somehow cheated because he didn't talk more about things like his foreign travel (although clearly he did), or that he isn't the perfect Christian, to the point of being more comparable to Jesus, rather than accepting that he's just human.

Also - again as Disnae said above, you seem to criticise him for being *a fake* and being dishonest, and then you criticise him when he's open and honest about things like his (albeit barmy) views, or how he feels about other people in the house. surely you can't have it both ways?

Iain

I happen to think that Josh had a very hard time of it when he weht into that house. I only brought Josh into the equation to demonstrate that it is hard for a new comer to fit into an established group.

and neither did anyone else. They weren't associating out of choice but out of necessity



No I'm not seriously suggesting that honesty is an admirable trait in this case.

I am suggesting that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot maintain that Cam set out to deceive by assuming a nice persona whilst he did at times behave in a way that would put him in a bad light. Cam would have been well aware of how the public perceived Jade and Adele in BB3 .


again you are misunderstanding what I am getting at. I am not saying that he did not benefit from the editing I am just saying that it portrayed him differently to how he is in real life. Many people think that Cam is teetotal whereas if you watched the E4 coverage he clearly did drink. I think I've said before that I thought he was portrayed as a cross between Forest Gump and one of those Amish religous people in Witness.

Morning Grim, Iain. Get the tea on!

Lisa came in that day and I think the other HMs were introduced in pairs via that silly drawing straws "task". I remember it struck me immediately how odd her behaviour was - like she already owned the place and her bossiness and wonderfulness was soon evident. It was THAT that put everyone off her, she came in as head teacher and they as pupils, which as a newcomer was not on. That a person coming into BB late on is on a hiding to nothing we all know so maybe she decided to cut out the middle man and be offensive from the start, what had she to lose? She's still a repugnant person though, pushy, gobby and has a rather magnified view of her own importance.
Meanwhile..
Camoron is a total fraud, fake I say. Too many examples quoted many times to need to repeat them here. The reason for my continued interest is my awaiting his ineluctable downfall via his true personality. It will come and I want to be there when it happens. Basically, I do not like being duped, and vicariously either - that so many should fall for his "little boy lost" charade I find astonishing, and exasperating.

(Quick edit to say Hello Disnae - didn't see you there - your post came mid-my-own-diatribe!)

agree wholeheartedly. how did others not notice this?


because of Christian values, but unfortunately didn't live up to them as well as Jesus did?


what do you expect to happen?

the BB house, don't forget, is far from being a typical environment, and so anything that happened in the BB house isn't necessarily going to be reflected elsewhere.


so, bearing in mind it was, ultimately, a *game*, he did quire well? he wasn't there for people to like him, he was there to try to win a wad of cash.

Iain