But the point is not whether it was genuine or not but whether Cam believed it to be genuine or not. If there is reason for viewers to question whether she was being genuine surely he had reason to doubt it. Clearly he was disgusted by what he saw as an act...the look of undisguised contempt on his face said it all.

No....

The point is that there is a strong basis in Lisa's attack being genuine and thus the point of Stout's behaviour is that it indicates that he really is a cynical, callous bastard.

You don't treat people like that - particularly as Lisa had never done Stout any real harm, however "annoying" she might be in a generalised, indiscriminate way.

The look on his face was not at all pleasant, and not remotely endearing.

och nooooo you just don't get it.

It doesn't matter whether her attack was genuine or not

its whether Cam thought she was puting it on that is relevant.

And I've already answered it. Stout reacted because of his own pious cynicism.

It is quite obvious that he resented Lisa's presence in the house and just took a dislike to her - and thus would take a dim view of her whatever she did. And it doesn't matter what Lisa did - anyone would've had a hard time with that lot.

Even if the attack *was* faked after all, I can't blame her for wanting a bit of fuss and attention. She was after all quite isolated in there and you yourself have admitted you felt for her as well.

However irritating Lisa was at times, she was a genuine person and made no apologies for it.

Cam was a sham - his real reactions to events being at odds with the nice bloke image C4 were trying to manufacture for him when his reaction to Lisa indicates that he's anything but nice and accommodating.

The issue of editing having of course very little to do with Stout himself but a largely separate matter.

I'll take Lisa every time.

Surely everyone will see the sense in this......

News Of The World Exclusive today:
Big Brother's Lisa Jeynes has had a stunning £4,700 nose job - after cruel taunts from fans about her looks........

Perhaps if Cameron had punched Lisa on the nose he might have done her a favour.

No Mes, if Lisa had bitched, I'd equally call it just that - a bit of bitching.

If she'd bitched, for example, about how bloody annoying Cameron was the way he kept appearing so wide eyed about everything, and wasn't it just a bit odd, then I certainly wouldn't argue with her.

Iain

how did you figure that one out ben?

Iain

I've only two words to use in response to you, and one of them is "off".

I wouldn't particularly blame her for wanting to be fussed over , I just don't think it can be argued that Cam's reaction to her *asthma attack* demonstrates his *unpleasant* nature as I think he might reasonably take the attitude that she was puting it on.

Apologist.

It certainly demonstrates his lack of empathy and tolerance for others cf. his behaviour towards Jon, Tania, Nush etc. I personally find that unpleasant, considering that he claims to be a Christian. ("Love thy neighbour" etc.)

There's nothing reasonable about Stout's behaviour towards Lisa - no matter how hard you try to come up with excuses. He - and others in the house - just took an arbitrary dislike to her and that was that. You can argue till you are blue in the face but the behaviour shown towards Lisa not just by Stout but also Steph in particular was horrible. If I was a fan of either of those two, I'd, frankly, want to keep silent on the matter of Lisa.

I'm just taking the view that Cam might reasonably have thought that Lisa was feigning illness . Lisa could have done more on her part to ease herself into the house without puting folks backs up and I will grant you, Cam, Steph and co could have been nicer and bitched less.

Oh no Iain....you'd be slagging her off...You started watching the highlights again when you heard this dreadful woman had started and you saw Cameron being nasty towards her and instantly identified with her...since then you've been apologising for his right wing rants and questionable behavior because you approve of his assessment of Lisa......As I say...you defended a country from one right wing view but defend the right wing views of someone for attacking someone you don't like......

If this isn't he case let's hear you defending Lisa against the viewpoint of Disnae........

thats very lovely ben.

but how did you figure out that disnae wasn't the sort of person who you'd like to see around if someone was ill, based on the comments about someone feigning illness?

Iain

no, really Mes.


how do you mean?

Iain

For some time you have spoken out against all who would suggest Cameron is a bad man..."Are you a mind reader" you have demanded..."Do you really know what Cameron is like" you have continued...despite speaking right wing views that I know you object to you have repeatedly been an apologist for him....BUT...Lisa....only in the house for two weeks...you agree with anything bad said about her.....You agree with Cameron's view on her...Are you a mind reader to know exactly what Cameron's intentions were? You certainly seem to agree with everything he did as if it was absolute fact that she was a swine (are you a mind reader to know that?)...Come on Iain..some awfully big assumptions are being made about a Big Bro contestant..the very reason you claim you leapt to Cameron's defense...but you haven't said one positive thing about Lisa..or questioned Disnae's information.....are you or he mind readers???

What's it to be then...defend Lisa from Disnae's view or are you really a partisan Cameron fan with your own biased viwepoint putting you in no position to question us on our (frankly better informed sinced we bothered to watch it) views.....

Go away, Iain. You sad, argumentative pedant.
:yawn: :sleep:

I missed the *Cameron is the devil incarnate* storyline bystander.
Maybe you can refresh my memory and explain how they edited that story together again.

I used to suffer from chronic asthma for a long time.

And yes,..I would be compelled to light up a cigarette. It really did ease the symptoms....It worked.

I thought it may have been down to the cigarette mainly just having a general relaxing effect. I didn't even know that it actually acts on opening the bronchial tubes.

He could have simply given her the benefit of the doubt, that almost all the others did.

He chose not to belive her, because it was convenient for him to have a scapegoat at any one time.
He didn't like her,..so he chose to believe that she was lying. He maybe should have simply accepted that Lisa may well have had problems,..just in case he was wrong.

But he didn't really care...his narrow-mindedness wouldn't allow him to feel for somebody who may have been suffering.
His contempt for Lisa only allowwed him to accept that his being right was more important to him, than Lisa possibly feeling even more distressed with his disapproving stare.

I think even Scott was dubious,..but at the time,..he showed some concern for Lisa and wanted her to be okay,....just in case her attack was indeed genuine.

But Cameron never stopped when he started,..that's the difference.
As soon as the opportunity arose, he got right in there and bitched with such venom for as long as he could.
That was the only time he really showed much emotion.

And the emotion was negative.

People do bitch,...but not bitching on about a person with so much venom, for long periods of time, over the most trivial of things..isn't exactly a *lofty* expectation.

I agree,..whether he believed it to be genuine or not,..is very relevant.

But if the case is that he didn't believe the panic attack to be genuine,..then you have to scrutinise the reasons why.

Why wouldn't it be genuine?
How could he have been so sure, that he risked causing her condition to be even more aggravated?
If it was somebody like Gos or Steph, or (err ran out of options here)..would he have show the same contempt?

Maybe his own petty dislike of Lisa affected his own reasoning. It was convenient for him to believe she was faking the attack.

Anyway,..who is he to judge?..Is he a doctor?

If somebody is apparently suffering,..you just try and help,...you can ask questions later.
What if they were swimming,..and Lisa started drowning?..Would Cameron allow his own failings to make the judgement that lisa is faking it,.she can probably swim?

Anyway,....a good samaritan doesn't sit there in judgement,...he/she just ..acts.

Cameron finds Lisa annoying.
Cameron partakes in some extremely venomous, sustained bitching sessions about her.

Cameron, if you are a Christian.......
....Then forgive her

Ahh..gotcha,.........you never watced BB4 at all did you???

[size=3]Lisa had nobody to bitch to[/size]

I may be wrong,..but from what I've read, Disnae isn't bothered too much about winning an argument,.and doesn't appear to be to be too concerned about her ego.

Although I disagree with many of her ways of seeing things,..she does occasionally point out things that show flexibiltiy,..and sometimes shows a less partisan view.

She has shown empathy towards how Lisa felt,..and although looking at possibilities to why Cameron may have behaved as he did,..she didn't take the easy route and try to justify Cameron's behaviour,..perhaps looked for an explanation,...but didn't appear to try to excuse it.

It's easy to say that Lisa is annoying,..so that's a good excuse,..but I didn't see Disnae hide behind that.