Some of us are trying to walk away from this thread and let the dust settle because things got a little out of hand and there was a risk people might be hurt.

I actually wish I hadn't started the thread. I never envisaged the condemnation Cam would get for trying to help a children's charity. It beggars belief !

Stop being so melodramatic.

Stout is totally false as far as many FMs are concerned and anything he does in the public eye should be looked upon with at least a touch of cynicism.

Then again, it's pretty clear that you don't or can't understand the overall negative perception of Stout since you appear to only ever judge situations from his perspective.

I object to things getting out of proportion and things often do seem to get out of proportion and ott where Cam is concerned

But it isn't.

Certain people believe that Stout is hardly an appropriate choice to support a charity given his cold, pious demeanour as shown in the BB house.

I asked you for an example of any kindness he showed to anyone in the house and you've again declined to answer.

It was Iain who twisted things out of proportion with his pedantic interjections on child abuse.

well, no - you never accused him of anything - I get that. it still seemed like you took a simple statement by Cameron, ie that it might be reasonable to smack children sometimes, and started on about *physical abuse*.


shish - now who's being pedantic.

my intention was solely to differentiate between smacking children ,and physical abuse. I don't think you could describe smacking children as *physical abuse*.


because IMO you were relying on the reputation that still surrounds MJ, rightly or wrongly, to use him as an example of someone who you wouldn't choose to leave your kids with, based upon that reputation - again rightly or wrongly.

you were using it to imply that Cameron was someone people wouldn't, or shouldn't, in your opinion, leave their kids with.

otherwise, why say it?

say what you like here, and twist it round, trying to make out its down to other people's preconceived views - but I think we all know what you were trying to imply....


huh?


exactly - you were deliberately, it seemed to me, relying on that dodgy connection to paint as bad a picture of Cameron as possible.


it wasn't about accusations - it was about what you were implying.

lets go with the simple statement that *it would take a very trusting person to hire Cameron as a babysitter to their kids*.

why exactly? what do you imagine might happen to kids if Cameron babysat them for an evening?


no - it doesn't offend me - and it certainly isn't about *a weapon against you*

i simply wondered why you chose to mention MJ at all, other than to purposely shed an unfavourable light, however that might come about - eg by people's preconceptions or whatever - on Cameron.


why the hell are you waffling on about *free speech* all of a sudden?


what do you mean? *get in trouble*?


given how much you've posted about Cameron being a bad choice, as well as everything else, you know perfectly well you were simply having a pop at him. IMO a pretty vague pop based on the flimsiest of reasoning...


no problems at all - although I do think you're backtracking a bit...

Iain

Alrightmate - a word of advice. Just ignore Iain.

they must have deleted their posts then There were plenty of objections but I don't believe that 'cold , pious demeanour ' figured on the list


and I'm fed up with you trying to tell me what to do.


not that again. Very similar to what you said the last time


so go back to what I answered then and stop stirring it

I'm only asking you to back up your opinion of Stout with evidence from *his time in the BB4 house* which is something you've consistently proved unwilling or unable to do. Given your defence of Stout, I'd have thought you would be delighted to rhapsodise about what a great bloke he is, substantiating your opinion with *examples*.

But instead you react defensively because you've been backed into a corner debate-wise.

no Ben , I really am fed up with you telling me what to do.......

No I'm not.

I'm just *asking* you to back up your opinion by providing examples of Stout's good points (if any).

The fact that you are so reluctant to do so indicates to me that you might be worried at the prospect of being shown up for how wrong you are to support him.

think what you like Ben

You've already told me that I am stupid , desperate , lonely and sad for supporting Cam so call me what you like.
If I don't chose to dance to your tune read into it what you will.I will back up my own arguments in my own way when I chose and not when you say. End of Story.

I have made a generalised overview of my opinion of Cameron Stout fans *en masse*, not a specific indvidual.

If you are unwilling to enter into the cut and thrust of debate or to back up your opinions when asked, that's your business and your problem.

Therefore it is a complete waste of time and effort attempting to engage you in any form of discussion or to *ask* you (no bullying, no pressure, no telling you what to do) to present your interpretations and observations.

You are entitled to hold any opinion you wish. I'm just baffled by your reluctance to express it further.

Methinks that you are taking all this far too personally and that ultimately reflects far more on you than me.

whatever...I'm going for my tea. bye

just my (unwelcome ) view on Cam appearing on Children in Need show. Its no big deal and I doubt he feels it is either. Especially up in Scotland. We are very lacking in stars who will appear on these shows. Cams having his 15 mins of fame so Im sure he is delighted to take part for the fun of it as well as the charity side of it.

Cam is probably excited and delighted to be on the show

Personally I would also enjoy contributing to society in some charitable way and Im sure Cam does too altho I dont like his personality in particular and find him very intolerant and a negative influence overall

so to summarize Cam will be pleased to be involved in the easily identifiable charitable bit (altho I find him a negative messenger) but also will be looking forward to being on TV again and maybe treat it as a chance to sell himself to producers of religious programmes or programmes for OAP women etc

Indeed. Cam the Sham rides again.

i know this obviously just a small semantic quibble...but what exactly did Cameron say about *beating children*?

Iain

no it bleedin' well wasn't.

from where I'm standing Alrightmate latched on to some remark of Cameron's about smacking children, and started on about how inappropriate Cameron was for CiN because he thought it was ok to *beat children*.

Iain

Yes it bleedin' was.

oh no it wasn't

behind you!! etc

Iain

PS - no. really. it was alrighmate who started talking about physical abuse....

If you're going to answer that, iain,...can you do it in one block of text, if possible.
Just so it doesn't get too convuluted(sp?)
When exchanging posts with you,...it doesn't take long before it get's fragmented into a thousand senteces.

I know,...he keeps backtracking

Hi Goodfella,

Yes, this was the main point I was trying to get across.
Somehow it got to the situation where i was accused of alleging things, or implying things.
I didn't really intend for people to start *backtracking* events that occured in the BB4 house, and argue about past situations..I was trying to stay in the here and now.
I simply don't believe his anti-abuse stance is as strong as he will probably make out.
I just don't believe he is that passionate about the cause,..I think he feels it's more an opportunity to massage his ego and get good PR.
I didn't expect to be arguing whether he would beat kids or not,..my main point was that I feel he is fake.
His lack of compassion about children getting smacked or belted previously, was just to highlight his contradictory stance right now.
The hypocrite.

My basic orignal post was more about Cameron being one fat fake.
A lying get.
He'll go through the motions, read the script,....then pat himself on the back.
The smug self-satisfied ****.

And i also said that as long as people think he's a caring man,..I guess some good may come of it.

But I still maintain that Cameron works too hard on promoting a positive image of himself.
It reminds me of Jonny Regan from last year's BB3,...going on and on about being *genuine*....for a full year after BB3.

When celebrities literally *advertise* how good they are, and go on and on about the work they do for charity,....I'm just convinced their efforts are more to benefit them,...more than the people they brag on about helping.


P.S. And this doen't mean I'm talking of all celebrities having ulterior motives where charity work is concerned. You hear of celebrities who during their life, have given massive support to certain charities,..but it only gets found out about years later. I really admire that.

you say *of course*, but seeing as he only made a vague comment about *smacking* it seemed a bit OTT IMO.


so if we go with that, then any parent who ever smacks their kids is guilty of *physical abuse*, thinks its OK to give kids a good beating, doesn't care about children, and would be inappropriate to have anything to do with anything like CiN?


perhaps with the MJ thing, but the sentence before that you did say *it would take a very trusting person to hire Cameron as a babysitter to their kids*.

i don't think you're kidding anyone about what your implication was. thats what i meant when I suggested you were backtracking.


again - you made a more general reference to *people*. besides - as for why you wouldn't trust him - whichever way you look at it, in the context of the discussion - you're basically saying you wouldn't trust him because you think there's a chance that he'd beat the kids. which seems a ludicrous thing to even suggest based on a single remark about smacking.


yes - i get that. thats why I presumed you said it originally. only then you started saying any negative connotation was down to other people's perceptions, and it had nothing to do with you originally saying it. thats what i meant when i suggested you were backtracking.


i'm just disagreeing with you, thats all.


i know you were having a pop at him. but then, as I said, you started talking about other people's perceptions, the MJ thing being *my fault* etc.


i think we both have the same information at hand - ie Cameron's comment about smacking. you seem to think this makes him some sort of threat to children. I disagree.


well - no, not really - i think i've explained the backtracking thing above.

Iain