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Ray could be... |
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#101 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,773
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Quote:
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So why isn't Michael the best one there? He trained two years ago as a reserve contestant, he trained last year when he was injured and he has trained this year yet he is not even among the best. Besides, no one's said that prior experience is the only factor Quote:
You've either got it or you haven't.
The issue here is how you get it.Quote:
Roller-blading will have given him balance but not as much as ice hockey will have helped Chris Fountain, David Seaman and ................. yes .............. even Greg Rusedski. One of the arguments last year was that it was ok for Chris to have skating experience because other celebs had other experience, or other things, that would help them, and one type of "other experience" that was often pointed to was dance.Ray is a junior dance champion but there is a huge difference between performing dance moves on a firm floor with or without shoes and performing them on ice in skates. Are we supposed to believe this year that dance experience doesn't make much difference, not even when it's at such a level as Ray reached? Because, let's face it, Ray has dance and rollerblading going for him, and it shows. |
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#102 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,100
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Ray never had time for anything else than to do rollerblading as a hobby his spare time was taken up with dancing and competing all over UK
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#103 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,406
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Are we supposed to believe this year that dance experience doesn't make much difference, not even when it's at such a level as Ray reached? Because, let's face it, Ray has dance and rollerblading going for him, and it shows. |
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#104 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 290
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I have replayed his week 2 performance so many times, I have lost count....love it.
![]() EDIT: I've just watched it another 10 (ish) times, the kid is a pro. Everyone knows it, even if he doesn't win. I think sour grapes is the order of the day. WTF people find distasteful about him I don't know. Wish I had a kid like that. |
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#105 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,333
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Same here, the kid is brilliant, if he's not in the final it's a pointless excercise.
EDIT: I've just watched it another 10 (ish) times, the kid is a pro. Everyone knows it, even if he doesn't win. I think sour grapes is the order of the day. WTF people find distasteful about him I don't know. Wish I had a kid like that. |
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#106 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,363
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I don't know whether "hobby" is the best word -- in Ray's case or in others -- but a good number of people have figure skating as something they enjoy doing without being professionals or high level amateur competitors. It's not so common in Britain, of course.
Where did that come from? Have I ever suggested that all the celebs are the same? Indeed, my point about Ray is that he's different (in certain ways). People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO. |
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#107 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: being Blue with El Nino Torres
Posts: 11,910
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Same here, the kid is brilliant, if he's not in the final it's a pointless excercise.
EDIT: I've just watched it another 10 (ish) times, the kid is a pro. Everyone knows it, even if he doesn't win. I think sour grapes is the order of the day. WTF people find distasteful about him I don't know. Wish I had a kid like that. May i suggest its just a handful of posters on here who are calling Ray.i cant imagine what their agenda is other than they have a liking for another contestant and see Ray(rightfully)as a threat. we might be a little biased here in Liverpool towards our boy But i speak to people online all over the country who love him on DOI...a lot who werent particularly fans before. A small number of posters on DS dont represent the GBP. Its a fact that Ray is the most talented performer ever to appear on the show,sheer natural talent. ![]()
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#108 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,643
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Quote:
Same here, the kid is brilliant, if he's not in the final it's a pointless excercise.
EDIT: I've just watched it another 10 (ish) times, the kid is a pro. Everyone knows it, even if he doesn't win. I think sour grapes is the order of the day. WTF people find distasteful about him I don't know. Wish I had a kid like that. His music is not to my taste but it does not take away the fact that he has talent in abundance,I dont find him arrogant at all just confident and theres nothing wrong with that. I love Ray's dance routines his happy chirpy confidence and personally hope for a Ray v Todd final and dont care which one wins.What I do know is with these two I will have been entertained at both ends of the spectrum. |
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#109 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,110
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I don't give a damn who comes from where - I vote for talent. And Ray's got it in spades.
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#110 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Away with the faries
Posts: 27,378
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I don't know whether "hobby" is the best word -- in Ray's case or in others -- but a good number of people have figure skating as something they enjoy doing without being professionals or high level amateur competitors. It's not so common in Britain, of course.
Where did that come from? Have I ever suggested that all the celebs are the same? Indeed, my point about Ray is that he's different (in certain ways). Having lived in a city with an ice rink I do know about figure skating as a hobby as lessons were available (too expensive for me). I doubt any celeb who had previously had figure skating lessons as their hobby was figure skating would be accepted on DOI. My point about 'reaching' was mentioning ice dancing as a hobby! ![]() Quote:
...People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO.
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#111 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 927
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People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO.[/quote]
absolutely!! He is also very driven at whatever he does (doesn't seem to do half hearted) and sees life as an adventure so will try out things with great enthusiasm. |
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#112 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,185
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Quote:
My mother was an ice skating teacher at Richmond Ice rink and I learnt to skate from an early age, but I never got to the stage where I could spin or jump confidently even though I used to go after school quite a lot. I was fine at going backwards and forwards and turning, but didn't have the nerve for more adventurous stuff.
People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO. |
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#113 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,773
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Quote:
My mother was an ice skating teacher at Richmond Ice rink and I learnt to skate from an early age, but I never got to the stage where I could spin or jump confidently even though I used to go after school quite a lot. I was fine at going backwards and forwards and turning, but didn't have the nerve for more adventurous stuff.
People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO. ![]() I don't think anyone is claiming that it's only experience that's made Ray so good a skater. But I doubt very much that he'd be so good without it. Something that's often overlooked in talk about "talent" is that the "talented" ones almost always work very hard at it as well. The "talent" tends to get (all?) the credit, but it's far from clear that it should. |
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#114 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 4,994
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Yeah - the journey bit can be entertaining. Still who's to say Ray won't go on one - from really good to excellent professional standard skater!
Some people just seem to really distrust and disapprove of talent and excellence though. I hope he goes all the way - he is wonderful to watch. I too hope Ray goes all the way, I'm loving his work far better on this than on X-factor even though he was good on that. The guy clearly had all sorts of talent and I can see him being a big personality in the world of entertainment in time to come, particularly if he has any comedic talent to go along with the rest of it. |
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#115 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 4,994
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Quote:
That, plus prior experience.
![]() I don't think anyone is claiming that it's only experience that's made Ray so good a skater. But I doubt very much that he'd be so good without it. Something that's often overlooked in talk about "talent" is that the "talented" ones almost always work very hard at it as well. The "talent" tends to get (all?) the credit, but it's far from clear that it should. I think that the ability to work hard at something is a talent in itself. Ray is talented, there's no doubt. I for one will not hold that against him! The reason it's called a "talent" I believe is from the old Biblical story about a master who gave each of his three servants an amount of currency (called "talents") and 2 of the servants made the most of the money and invested it to good returne, but one was afraid to lose what he had and buried it until the master returned. Needless to say, the master was far more pleased with those who had used the money to good effect than with the one who had buried it under ground. So Ray has been given ability and potential, and he is making the most of it - good for him! I was also given many talents, and I did not make the most of mine and I am ashamed. If you leave your talents hidden for too long, buried under ground, then you will be left only with regrets/ |
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#116 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,773
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I think that the ability to work hard at something is a talent in itself. Ray is talented, there's no doubt. I for one will not hold that against him!
... My point is that here's a tendency to give innate ability the credit, when someone's thought to be "talented", ignoring the hard work that's also involved. The significance of prior experience is similarly neglected. |
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#117 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,773
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Quote:
Yeah - the journey bit can be entertaining. Still who's to say Ray won't go on one - from really good to excellent professional standard skater!
Some people just seem to really distrust and disapprove of talent and excellence though. I hope he goes all the way - he is wonderful to watch. Quote:
Sadly, that is the British way. I have no idea why we hate to see anyone who is better than anyone else at things, we always seem to want to make life hard for them and put obstacles in their way. ...
What people have a problem with is ambition and hard work. Naturally, this gets tricky when someone talented works hard as well. The resulting "cognitive dissonance" tends to be resolved by downgrading the importance of the hard work and by giving the lion's share of the credit to talent. And so when some are pointing to Ray's dancing and rollerblading experience as important reasons why he's able to skate so well, there's a readily available "model" for how to downgrade such things: give the credit to talent and treat the prior experience as insignificant. |
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#118 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,406
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And so when some are pointing to Ray's dancing and rollerblading experience as important reasons why he's able to skate so well, there's a readily available "model" for how to downgrade such things: give the credit to talent and treat the prior experience as insignificant. they are now ranked 30th in the world in pairs Ice skating... I'm sure they transferred their roller skating experience and technique in order to achieve this
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#119 |
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Guest
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,887
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I doubt he will win the final. It will be another Bonnie Langford moment. He'll sail through to the last show and when it comes down to the viewers vote I think he'll come second.
If the viewers keep voting for Todd and thus keep him out of the bottom two, he'll breeze through each round but if it came down to the judges vote, he'd be sent packing |
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#120 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,110
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I don't think Ray is as unpopular as would appear
Seems to me the same multiposting Ray bashers give that impression. Difference between Bonnie and Ray is that Ray skates and does so incredibly well. Bonnie didn't really get to grips with the actual skating, although her 'performance' skills were amazing. I always felt perhaps it was down to the choreography that she spent more time in the air than she did on ice. Perhaps if more had been asked of her, we would have seen a different Bonnie: having said that Gaynor was no better on the ice, and less spectacular in the air. Suzanne was in danger of being tarred with the same "Matt carries her around," brush last year until Nicky's low mark. Lessons are being learned every year. |
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#121 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 11,780
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Ray might still win the final by the viewers' vote if he is so much better than anyone else - and Jessica might be his closest rival, but of all the men Ray has the physique to do best at flying, and so be less behind a girl in that going into the favourite programme, where he would do best on the judges' score. A 30.0 there would set him up nicely for the Bolero and a win.
Also, in a head-to-head against Suzanne in a Champions' Special, he is the one skater I could see the judges favouring over Suzanne for superior skating technique and musical interpretation. Btw, I think his skating last week, which got 25.0, was better than Suzanne's Santa Baby in the Xmas Special, which got 30.0. Face it, he is the one male skater who has everything, already at this stage. No matter how good Chris and Kyran were, they did not have that amazing grace Ray has. |
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#122 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,185
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Face it, he is the one male skater who has everything, already at this stage. No matter how good Chris and Kyran were, they did not have that amazing grace Ray has. |
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#123 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle upon tyne
Posts: 4,005
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Ray is a great skater as was bonny in the first show she was the real winner he is the best on this show
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