Why would anyone expect him Michael to be the best? We've all seen that people can come out of DOI training without being very good skaters.

Besides, no one's said that prior experience is the only factor

The issue here is how you get it.


One of the arguments last year was that it was ok for Chris to have skating experience because other celebs had other experience, or other things, that would help them, and one type of "other experience" that was often pointed to was dance.

Are we supposed to believe this year that dance experience doesn't make much difference, not even when it's at such a level as Ray reached?

Because, let's face it, Ray has dance and rollerblading going for him, and it shows.

Plus, we don't have an a ice rink in Liverpool and, therefore, it would be a huge commitment to have it as a hobby, travelling to the nearest rink at Deeside.

IMO the dance training has given him a better sense of balance, and there fore could be an advantage even if he never wore ice skates in his life before this, over say Todd who is struggling to balance on his feet. i don't know much abou ice skating apart from years of watching it, but I have heard on many many occasions that the correct weight over the foot etc is vital, I'm sure this is also needed in dance especially ballet type dances. just my opinion

Same here, the kid is brilliant, if he's not in the final it's a pointless excercise.

EDIT: I've just watched it another 10 (ish) times, the kid is a pro.
Everyone knows it, even if he doesn't win.
I think sour grapes is the order of the day.
WTF people find distasteful about him I don't know.
Wish I had a kid like that.

Agree, What a talent

My mother was an ice skating teacher at Richmond Ice rink and I learnt to skate from an early age, but I never got to the stage where I could spin or jump confidently even though I used to go after school quite a lot. I was fine at going backwards and forwards and turning, but didn't have the nerve for more adventurous stuff.

People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO.

Good post winemart.
May i suggest its just a handful of posters on here who are calling Ray.i cant imagine what their agenda is other than they have a liking for another contestant and see Ray(rightfully)as a threat.
we might be a little biased here in Liverpool towards our boy But i speak to people online all over the country who love him on DOI...a lot who werent particularly fans before.
A small number of posters on DS dont represent the GBP.
Its a fact that Ray is the most talented performer ever to appear on the show,sheer natural talent.

I agree 100%,I bet his parents are real proud of him. I just cannot understand the nastiness about Ray,I watched him on X Factor and thought what a lovely lad he is even though my Favourite was Leona and I only ever vote for one person I couldent help but wish him well.
His music is not to my taste but it does not take away the fact that he has talent in abundance,I dont find him arrogant at all just confident and theres nothing wrong with that.
I love Ray's dance routines his happy chirpy confidence and personally hope for a Ray v Todd final and dont care which one wins.What I do know is with these two I will have been entertained at both ends of the spectrum.

I don't give a damn who comes from where - I vote for talent. And Ray's got it in spades.

It was late last night, but what I meant was not that you were saying all the celebs were the same, but just to accept Ray's differences as we do the others.

Having lived in a city with an ice rink I do know about figure skating as a hobby as lessons were available (too expensive for me). I doubt any celeb who had previously had figure skating lessons as their hobby was figure skating would be accepted on DOI. My point about 'reaching' was mentioning ice dancing as a hobby!


Exactly - he's talented, fearless and has a great attitude! Fab post!

People who succeed tend to be people who go for it in whatever activity they take on and Ray just has the right attitude to everything he undertakes. It's got little to do with prior experience, it's a question of using what skills you have and seeing yourself do whatever it is you want to do. He seems to be completely fearless and focused on succeeding and that's why he's doing well IMO.[/quote]

absolutely!! He is also very driven at whatever he does (doesn't seem to do half hearted) and sees life as an adventure so will try out things with great enthusiasm.

Great Post, and you sum Ray up so well - will never forget him dancing in British Final he was about 8 or 9 dancing on his own in front of a few thousand at the Winter Gardens - nothing fazes him

That, plus prior experience.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it's only experience that's made Ray so good a skater. But I doubt very much that he'd be so good without it.

Something that's often overlooked in talk about "talent" is that the "talented" ones almost always work very hard at it as well. The "talent" tends to get (all?) the credit, but it's far from clear that it should.

Sadly, that is the British way. I have no idea why we hate to see anyone who is better than anyone else at things, we always seem to want to make life hard for them and put obstacles in their way. The government does it too, because they believe that everyone should be the same and as some will never get better then the rest of us have to be held back in some way. Still, I won't go on about that!

I too hope Ray goes all the way, I'm loving his work far better on this than on X-factor even though he was good on that.

The guy clearly had all sorts of talent and I can see him being a big personality in the world of entertainment in time to come, particularly if he has any comedic talent to go along with the rest of it.

I think that the ability to work hard at something is a talent in itself. Ray is talented, there's no doubt. I for one will not hold that against him!

The reason it's called a "talent" I believe is from the old Biblical story about a master who gave each of his three servants an amount of currency (called "talents") and 2 of the servants made the most of the money and invested it to good returne, but one was afraid to lose what he had and buried it until the master returned. Needless to say, the master was far more pleased with those who had used the money to good effect than with the one who had buried it under ground.

So Ray has been given ability and potential, and he is making the most of it - good for him!

I was also given many talents, and I did not make the most of mine and I am ashamed. If you leave your talents hidden for too long, buried under ground, then you will be left only with regrets/

The ability to work hard isn't normally considered a talent, though, and hard work is often contrasted with talent as a way to become good at something. Indeed, hard work can get you insulted as a "try hard".

My point is that here's a tendency to give innate ability the credit, when someone's thought to be "talented", ignoring the hard work that's also involved. The significance of prior experience is similarly neglected.

I don't think Britain disapproves of talent. Talent is generally praised, and it's the "talentless" who are dissed and disliked. Nor is there, generally, a problem with excellence or success, so long as its produced through talent so that the success is "deserved". It's the "undeserved" success of the "talentless" that brings out the slagging and the desire to see someone fail or be "taken down a few pegs".

What people have a problem with is ambition and hard work. Naturally, this gets tricky when someone talented works hard as well. The resulting "cognitive dissonance" tends to be resolved by downgrading the importance of the hard work and by giving the lion's share of the credit to talent.

And so when some are pointing to Ray's dancing and rollerblading experience as important reasons why he's able to skate so well, there's a readily available "model" for how to downgrade such things: give the credit to talent and treat the prior experience as insignificant.

Zanforlin/Degli Esposti (Italy) are four-times World Roller Skating Pair Champions (2003-2006) and switched to figure skating in May 2007. They started roller skating in 1987. Both are working full-time to finance their skating.taken from http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00010940.htm

they are now ranked 30th in the world in pairs Ice skating... I'm sure they transferred their roller skating experience and technique in order to achieve this

I doubt he will win the final. It will be another Bonnie Langford moment. He'll sail through to the last show and when it comes down to the viewers vote I think he'll come second.

If the viewers keep voting for Todd and thus keep him out of the bottom two, he'll breeze through each round but if it came down to the judges vote, he'd be sent packing

I don't think Ray is as unpopular as would appear

Seems to me the same multiposting Ray bashers give that impression.

Difference between Bonnie and Ray is that Ray skates and does so incredibly well.

Bonnie didn't really get to grips with the actual skating, although her 'performance' skills were amazing. I always felt perhaps it was down to the choreography that she spent more time in the air than she did on ice. Perhaps if more had been asked of her, we would have seen a different Bonnie: having said that Gaynor was no better on the ice, and less spectacular in the air.

Suzanne was in danger of being tarred with the same "Matt carries her around," brush last year until Nicky's low mark.

Lessons are being learned every year.

Ray might still win the final by the viewers' vote if he is so much better than anyone else - and Jessica might be his closest rival, but of all the men Ray has the physique to do best at flying, and so be less behind a girl in that going into the favourite programme, where he would do best on the judges' score. A 30.0 there would set him up nicely for the Bolero and a win.

Also, in a head-to-head against Suzanne in a Champions' Special, he is the one skater I could see the judges favouring over Suzanne for superior skating technique and musical interpretation.

Btw, I think his skating last week, which got 25.0, was better than Suzanne's Santa Baby in the Xmas Special, which got 30.0.

Face it, he is the one male skater who has everything, already at this stage. No matter how good Chris and Kyran were, they did not have that amazing grace Ray has.

With Ray's dance ability I can see Torville and Dean and Karen for that matter being able to draw on their Ice Dance skills moreso than the lifts of pair skating whilst I think Ray will be able to do some lifting I cant see him doing headbangers etc but he would be able to tackle the dance type routines that T & D and Karen used to do

Ray is a great skater as was bonny in the first show she was the real winner he is the best on this show