Robin "fixing" Dancing On Ice Scores Scandal

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memmh

26-01-2009

Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“I think that looks more like what they are doing. Simple done well = 4, difficult well =5.

That of course though depends on getting the choreography and its increasing difficulty right for the contestant. This week everyone got something they could do apart from Todd (whose limits are too low) and Zoe who got something she couldn't do when it was easily removed from the routine. You have to wonder how well they could guage routines for people and how easily they can adapt routines when they have 11 people to choreograph. If DOI doesn't let the pros do the choreography it makes it even more difficult to match people to ability even if it should avoid anyone ending up with a weaker choreographer.”

They do tweak things when they're not working.

In series 2, Stephen Gately was having problems with a lift and it was taken out.

Chris and Jayne have said in the past that they set the basic routine at the beginning of the week and tweak it as the week goes if necessary. The coaches - and presumably also the professional skaters - also have the right to tweak it if Chris and Jayne aren't around. In one of the earlier series, Karen changed a move for one of the contestants (can't remember who) because they weren't managing the move that was originally choreographed.

thenetworkbabe

26-01-2009

Originally Posted by memmh:
“They do tweak things when they're not working.

In series 2, Stephen Gately was having problems with a lift and it was taken out.

Chris and Jayne have said in the past that they set the basic routine at the beginning of the week and tweak it as the week goes if necessary. The coaches - and presumably also the professional skaters - also have the right to tweak it if Chris and Jayne aren't around. In one of the earlier series, Karen changed a move for one of the contestants (can't remember who) because they weren't managing the move that was originally choreographed.”

Thanks. Matt or someone else then needs to adapt more to Zoe and not push her into moves Suzanne but not Zoe could do then. It just distorts things because with this lot I suspect it would be easy to turn most couples into a heap on the floor - Ray doing an overhead lift above his shoulders, Jessica doing what Claire did in her week one lift , Todd moving on his own........

GerriP

26-01-2009

Originally Posted by SylviaB:
“Did you hear Ruthie question Nicky about Ray's score being worth only .5 more than Coleen's 4.5?
What was that all about or did I miss something?”

I certainly heard the Pot calling the Kettle black in that exchange. By the same merit can you say that Jeremy was only worth .5 more than Todd?

I think Ruthie was deeply unprofessional in what she did on the show.

As for the directive from Robin... it makes sense that the judges have a cap early on and that they are instructed to score by rank.

icedragon

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by Stunty:
“Nicky has judged before and that is why I am amazed at his scores. The fact that he can't get a grasp of the fact that giving a 6.0 means the performance is 'perfect' and so in his eyes Coleen was a mere 1.5 off being perfect.

”

Just to say that a score of 6.0 does not = 'perfect' in skating competitions, although that's a common misconception. On this show where they have a limited choice of marks and they are having to cover both technical and presentation marks in one score it is always going to be difficult to give 'sensible ' marks.

If you've given a skater 5.5 and the next skater is better you have to give them a 6.0 to show they are better even it's not perfect. It's a relative score as all skate scoring under 6.0 system used to be.

When Nicky gave Melinda (or whoever) 4.5 that was relative to scores he'd given to previous skaters. For Ray they'd apparently been instructed not to give out 6.0's too early on so he gave him a 5.0 although clearly Ray was way better than Melinda/ Coleen /everyone else! Really they need to save the 6.0's for later week's performances where there will be more big tricks to reward.

They are really not judging like with like as the abilities are so widely spread to start with and you would not have that in any real competition.

Sheila36dd

27-01-2009

Nickey is an experienced pro - why does he need Robin to tell him how to score?

icedragon

27-01-2009

Because Robin's the leader of the judges panel and it's not like this can be scored like a proper skate competition and I would imagine Robin gets some direction from the producers which he passes on to the panel.

Veri

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by BevS97:
“Figure skating marking is much more about position than actual scores, so the first skater gets a mid range score and everyone else is either better or worse and is scored accordingly. The actual numbers aren't important, all that matters is the relative position. This doesn't translate particularly well to Dancing on Ice, but that's what Nicky is trying ot achieve, he's made a number of comments to the effect that someone was worse than someone else, so he can't give them a better score as he has already given the better person such and such.”

Which is the only sensible thing to do. For the marks to be fair, they must reflect how the skaters compare to each other, because the marks affect who's safe and who's in the dance-off.

Greytop_1967

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by Greytop_1967:
“DANCING On Ice judges have been deliberately marking down favourite Ray Quinn — because he is TOO GOOD.

ITV viewers listened in shock as one of the show’s judges let slip the secret LIVE on air.

Insiders claim producers are convinced former X Factor star Ray will win this year’s show — but they are concerned he looks “too capable” at such an early stage.

So they are believed to have asked the judges to mark him modestly so he shows signs of improvement over the series.

Executives had hoped to keep the strategy under wraps — but judge Nicky Slater blurted it out on Sunday night’s show.

After Ray’s incredible performance with skating partner Maria Filippov, Nicky gave him just five points out of six.

Judge Ruthie Henshall hit out at Nicky for awarding Ray just slightly more than Coleen Nolan, saying: “How can you say, Nicky, that that was only 0.5 better than Coleen?”

But Nicky claimed he was acting under orders from fellow judge Robin Cousins.

He insisted: “The reason I have given you only 0.5 more — and I would have loved to give you more than that — is because of a directive I have from our judge here, Robin, and I’m just putting you in first place.”

An insider said: “ITV are paranoid that if they keep marking Ray high it will be clear that he has got the series in the bag.

“They know he will probably win because he is so good, so they want him to get reasonable scores in the early rounds so it looks as if there is everything to play for. Nicky letting the cat out of the bag on Sunday was the last thing they needed.

“People were cringing with embarrassment when he said it. That revelation just makes the judges’ points scoring look worthless.”

After scoring 25 out of a possible 30, Ray said: “I’m such a hyperactive person so it’s hard to keep me cool.”

Maria praised him as “incredible” and skating legend Christopher Dean — who helps to choreograph the routines with Jayne Torvill — admitted: “Ray’s only problem is that we don’t know what we’re going to do with him next.

“He is so talented that it’s a challenge for us, he is setting his own bar so high — what is he going to come back with?”

Judge and trainer Karen Barber said: “It was a stunning routine, he is pushing us all.

“He’s one of our best ever — actually, the best.”

Judge Jason Gardiner last night admitted the markings had been “outrageous” but he — and ITV — denied they were deliberately marking people down.

He said: “Nicky is a law unto himself. He has no rhyme nor reason to the way he scores.

“But no one is going to tell us judges what to do. We are there to give expert opinions.

“The panel is divided because three of us are skating experts and two are performers — we look at the contestants from different views.”

A ITV spokeswoman said: “No limits are set for the scores — but clearly at this stage of the competition the contestants are still developing their style and creative skills.”

Source - The Sun http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2175242.ece”

Posted in Greytop on Ice thead

Stunty

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by icedragon:
“Just to say that a score of 6.0 does not = 'perfect' in skating competitions, although that's a common misconception. On this show where they have a limited choice of marks and they are having to cover both technical and presentation marks in one score it is always going to be difficult to give 'sensible ' marks.

If you've given a skater 5.5 and the next skater is better you have to give them a 6.0 to show they are better even it's not perfect. It's a relative score as all skate scoring under 6.0 system used to be.

When Nicky gave Melinda (or whoever) 4.5 that was relative to scores he'd given to previous skaters. For Ray they'd apparently been instructed not to give out 6.0's too early on so he gave him a 5.0 although clearly Ray was way better than Melinda/ Coleen /everyone else! Really they need to save the 6.0's for later week's performances where there will be more big tricks to reward.

They are really not judging like with like as the abilities are so widely spread to start with and you would not have that in any real competition.”

Nicky's starting mark is too low then. Nicky doesn't have a button for 1.0 or 2.0, his marks start at 3.0.

icedragon

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by Stunty:
“Nicky's starting mark is too low then. Nicky doesn't have a button for 1.0 or 2.0, his marks start at 3.0. ”

I think he's just trying to be kind, given they are celebs and not in a serious competition. No way would Todd and Ray be in the same competition in the real world but somehow the judges are expected to accomodate scoring both of them within a range of 0 - 6.0 in 0.5 increments.

A pretty impossible task really.

FlaviaCacake

27-01-2009

Originally Posted by icedragon:
“ I think he's just trying to be kind, given they are celebs and not in a serious competition. No way would Todd and Ray be in the same competition in the real world but somehow the judges are expected to accomodate scoring both of them within a range of 0 - 6.0 in 0.5 increments.

A pretty impossible task really.”

Excellent point.

All the judges are guilty of inconsistent marking due to the nature of the comeptition.

Greytop_1967

27-01-2009

Can the judges give nil or 0.5 as I think the lowest score I have seen is 1.0.

Thinking of Strictly here when Craig give John 1 point and then said 'If I had 0 I would have used it'

sk2007

27-01-2009

Null points is too cruel. I think even with falls, tripping your partner over, not completing any of your elements and all, if you manage to make it to the end of your routine you deserve at least a 0.5!

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