I know the focus with lifts is how high can you lift the female but I think the ones that work the best are often the more intricate ones that may not look spectacular like that or makes you think "oh no she's going to knock herself out". Even really good footwork and holds work better than lifts. Chris never flings Jayne in the air. Not deliberately, anyway.

I agree, that's why I always preferred real ice dance rather than the pairs, I've always thought dancing much better than what amounts to acrobatics on ice.

I think with Ray T & D have a chance to do some good Ice Dance routines with him and knowing Ray he will work hard I don't think he has peaked too soon or will rest on his laurels he always worked extremely hard at all the dance styles he conquered as a child.

I think Ray will cope with some lifts (he used to do the acrobatic type RNR) but I think it will be through dancing on Ice that he will shine through. I found last weeks routine subtle not flashy and the flow and emotion in it unmatched by any of the others

I watch it for other contestants who I find more interesting.

But who knows? Perhaps Ray will do something this week that will change my mind.


No on has criticised Ray for not being as good as a pro. (At least not in any post I've seen.)

The only point has been that, since he isn't, saying he is as good as a pro is overrating him.

Ray is far and away the best celebrity skater they've had to date. His last routine was really good. Definitely not as good as a pro though, since he won't have the additional skills they have and has a long way to go with his skate skills.

The jumping on to the toepicks with balance impressed me, although the spins seemed to be on the toepicks rather than the sweet spot (whether for choroegraphy or because his spins arent quite right yet or mabe a hangover from roller blading where they have to spin on the fronts)

The rollup lift he did with Maria was great and I think he has the balance and confidence to enable him to do the big lifts later in the competition. Lifts are technique as much as strength (although obviously a bit easier with a bigger difference in size).

He has the deep knee bend to enable him to get really into the ice and superb flow and energy in the dancing.

He made the skating part look easy so he can really concentrate on the dance which he is good at anyway.

I am curious Veri as to what you would consider 'interesting' , if this dance didn't do anything for you?

And Ramps

How could I have forgotten Ramps!

back on topic, I'm going to be honest, I watched all last weeks dances ( painfully and complete with electronic rather than dancer inflicted stutters and blips ) on youtube yesterday afternoon.

Ray - imo - clearly has taken to the show like a duck to umm frozen water and is possessed of a natural flair and talent. Is he a pro? Of course he's not a pro lol come on, after all the furore of SCD this winter, do you *really* think ITV wants to court that sort of bad publicity and controversy? I know little about the technical difficulties of ice dance, but I do know what I like. *shrugs* I find him good to watch. He seems to have filled out, grown up, and delivers the dance with interpretation and emotion.

BUT, I'm realistic enough to know that others won't feel that way, and that's ok. Wouldn't be much of a contest if we all agreed on who should win after 3weeks, would it?

Incidently, out of the girls, if Zoe can conquer her fear of falling, I think she could be great!

Of course saying that Ray is as good as a porfessional skater is overrating him. However, he is imo (from the evidence so far) an incredibly natural skater.

I understand that the OP found Ray's second performance less impressive than his first and, of course, that is their prerogative. I disagree - but that is part of the reason that these shows appeal.

As to whether he has peaked to soon - I hope not. Just because he has started significantly further along the ability road than most of the others shohuldn't mean that he can't still progress. I live in hope that, unlike others before him, Ray can take his exceptional starting talent and really turn it into something special. If he doesn't improve as the weeks go by it'll just be another Chris Fountain situation.

he will get better and better he is a perfectionist and it shows in all he does

Did you see him on the X Factor?
He did get better and better, but he did'nt win!

It wasn't so much that I thought it less impressive than his first -- more that it was less impressive than itself when I watched it again.


There was so much in this weeks performance (on a 1st viewing anyway) that I'm not sure how much more he can put in. Though of course he can increase his speed, learn more difficult jumps, etc.

And include lifts.

And perform flawlessly .

He's undeniably a great skater but I can't warm to him. I suppose I like people like Roxanne and Coleen because they haven't stepped onto the ice knowing everything. As viewers you get to journey with them. Ray was great from the off, knew everything. He's flashy, confident and I just can't see where he can go from here. The others can get better. They can learn, improve... Ray started at the top... what's he going to do? Just stay there. It's eventually going to become boring. And (I hope) the others will eventually then catch up with him.

AS far as I know Ray has had no reral previous Ice skating training. He is quite a good roller skater but I dont think you can compare the two skills.

I don't get the Ray becoming boring because he's already so good thing. Does that make the professional skaters boring to watch, or mean they have "nowhere else to go"? Doesn't matter what point he started out at, Ray is learning, just like everyone else.

I totally agree.

I have always enjoyed the show and enjoy watching all of them and having the mix of abilities in the show. For me Ray is the one I get excited about seeing and think he is great to watch. His level of ability and goals might be different to some of the others but he seems to work hard to achieve the best he can and put in a good performance. Keep it up Ray, loving your work so far

Really can't stand Ray. Yes he can skate but hes a cocky show off. Glad to see he stumbled tonight maybe take him down a peg or too dont know how he can stumble but not get marked down for it had that been anyone else they would have got slated for it.

Looking at the VT, I don't think he needs "taking down a peg or two". He was hardly blazing with confidence and bragging about how he never falls and how everything is so easy. Some people see exactly what they want to see.

Someone being good does not make them a cocky show off it just makes them good.

I'm interested to see if you have any actual examples of arrogance that you can write out here?

I know Ray stumbled but the rest of his routine was very good.

Being very selfish, I just enjoy watching good skating. I'll find it more interesting when the rest have improved.

That's because he was up against greater talent on the X Factor. He isn't here.

I thought Ray was great.

He was getting 5s in week 2; as long as he doesn't break something or seriously lose it, I don't see how anyone can catch him.

Despite stumble, I thought Ray was mesmerising tonight. I couldn't take my eyes off him. He's obviously struggling for complete control and still has a lot to learn, but the routine was difficult and he moves with power and grace - terrific. I think he'll just get better.

I like watching a variety of skill this early in the comp, but admit I'm less enthralled by the poorer skaters.

Okay I was a bit flippant before. However, all these "Ray is so good where on earth can he go" comments don't make sense.

I think anyone who has ever watched any proper skating (that's "proper" in the technical sense ) knows that Ray still has a fair way to go before he can rival even the more mediocre skaters in the competitive world.

Therefore, even a celeb who starts out (relatively) brilliantly still should have one hell of a journey in front of them if they're really that good.

Look at it this way. There's a fantastically gifted sprinter out there that has never tried his/her luck over 100m, let alone put on proper kit or worn running spikes.

I reckon that sprinter would still be able to make incredible progress (and not just over a couple of races) once they'd received coaching.

You have a point..as a competition it is virtually over.
The bookies made Ray odds-on from week one, he is currently 1-16 on (!) to be top male and about 2-5 on to win the whole thing. A more open contest would have been more interesting, but I do think it is a credit to him that he is tackling difficult routines..he could have just coasted through these early weeks.

From what I understand the choreography Ray is given is more complex than any of the others. I think nerves got to him tonight, but overall he still managed to skate a great routine and deserved his marks. He's young enough to be fearless and confident, but as we saw tonight he can be overwhelmed by the pressure he puts on himself to do well.

I don't think he is anywhere near pro level and it is silly to even think that, but he is a pleasure to watch. I doubt if I'd bother watching if he wasn't in it, as I don't think the other celebs are particularly entertaining or exciting to watch. He caught my attention in week one and now I want to see how much better he can get. Although I prefer some to others, I can take or leave the other couples.