Professional skaters can be boring to watch.


But, using your analogy, Ray's already put on proper kit, and running spikes, and received coaching. He's already past that period of rapid progress.

Suppose Ray were enough better that he didn't have that little mess up he had tonight. Would that make his performance a better one? Yes. Would it make his performance much more interesting? No. Or suppose he became able to move faster over the ice (which one of the judges suggested as a goal). Would that make his routines better and more difficult? Of course. Much more interesting? No, not really.

There are more things he can learn, and some of them might be very impressive, but most likely he's going to stay at roughly the level he's at now.

The thing for me though is this. Had the selection of this years contestants been better would Ray now be under more more pressure to perform better.

Judging by the majority of the contestants I feel this is the weakest line up they have ever had on Dancing on Ice, including Michael Underwood, whom if you discount being a reserve in series two was still bad given all the training he has had. And I suspect the line up they have has been chosen to boost the likes of Ray and Jessica's chances of getting to the final because they are so poor.

I don't think Ray is either flashy nor overrated.

He is exceptionally good and his performances are more understated than flashy.

The only contestant in any of the series whose skating I would describe as flashy but overrated is Chris Fountain.


No, actually Michael is the most experienced.

Having trained for the series this year, last year and the year before.


I don't agree and have never agreed with this. In all honesty, the vast majority of the studio audience are bemused every time the judges make this criticism of her. I think they basically have to criticise her for something and there isn't really anything else to criticise her for.

Jessica has a genuine fear of falling and seriously hurting herself and it is holding her back from actually enjoying what she's doing. Ray does not or at least does not appear to have this fear.


Ray is a dancer (hence why he will never be allowed to enter SCD) but there is a huge difference between dancing on level, dry ground and on ice. Ray has roller bladed which is a totally different skill to ice skating (it's like comparing tennis to squash or badminton or sprinting to long distance running).

Jessica trained for a show that involved just one performance. Hardly prolonged, intensive training. David Seaman trained for and won the same show. Why was the same fuss not made about him when he entered DOI a couple of years ago? Despite the fact that he clearly had experience of basic skating even before then as a result of his ice hockey days. Likewise, Greg Rusedski.

John Barrowman is a dancer with prior experience of skating. Why was his right to participate in the series not questioned?

Chris Fountain made no secret of the fact that he had skated regularly with his friends since childhood? Why was he not deemed to have too much experience for the show?

All the above (with the exception od Chris), together with Michael Underwood who has trained for three series, only prove that you've either got it or you haven't.

Why is it only Ray and Jessica who are deemed to be "too experienced" for the show? Could it be because other contestants' supporters know that they have little chance against either of them?

I agree. He has a natural elegance on the ice that is lovely to watch. It was a real shame about the stumble yesterday.

Great Post

I completely agree, Ray would shine at most things to do with performing, seems he was simply born to do so. It's such a shame that someone so talented gets criticised fo rnatural ability.

I thought Ray was very good yesterday. I must say I prefer his skating to his singing. The only criticism I would give would be that T&D or whoever choreographs his routines should not try to make it overly complicated. I think that is why he stumbled yesterday. I think the routine was very complicated. He has no immediate competition, Jessica, although very good, is not on the same level. Therefore wouldn't it be better to do a simpler routine (with perhaps a few intricate moves) than to do an overly complicated routine that will be too much for him?
While I was watching him I thought, the only way he'll be out of this competition is if he does something wrong, falls down or something because I cannot see anyone skating better than him. I think they should simplify his routine a bit.

True.
I suspect that whatever he does over the next few weeks, he won't get higher than a 5. They'll save the 6s for the semi final/final (assuming he does get that far.)

I was surprised that Jason gave him a 4 last night, but that was good - shows that he's not always guaranteed top marks.

it's funny because the bit he trippd on he got fine all week watch the mid week clip and he is perfect at it.
His childhood sweet heart sold a story on him yesterday so i think maybe that could have been playing on his mind which affected him a tiny bit.

I thought he was good and was not the only one to trip or slip last night but because he is use to perfection it was noticed more.

I think he will be back to normal happy Ray next week

I think they wanted to challenge him and see what he was able to do.

I think Ray has no problem with speed; maybe he'd find a slower routine more of a challenge. I wonder if they'd let him try Bolero?

Ray has a natural flair and guts on the ice which NONE of the others have.

He is given much much much harder routines than any of the others yet still outscores them. I like her, but he deserved much more than a 0.5 more than Coleen.

He's actually a very good skater by the looks of it.

It seems to me that past experience only counts if you're talented. If you had three years of training (a la Michael) and still aren't very good, it doesn't count. You only get it in the neck if you have natural aptitude to pick it up.


Are you trying to say that Ray and Jessica are "so poor" and need help to get to the final? Or is your "so poor" directed to the other contestants?

There are flashier moves in Ray's routines than in any of the others, apart from a few of the lifts that a couple of the women do with their professional partners.

(I agree with you about Jessica, btw.)


Rollerblading is not totally different, though. I encountered them in the other direction (ie, skating 1st), but either way, some things do carry over.

Ray's dance experience is very evident in all of his skating performances. In the past, the point that dance experience helps has been made repeatedly (often to counter claims that someone's skating experience gives them an unfair advantage).

However, I agree that Ray's experience shouldn't bar him from participating in the show.

There's certainly no clear line that he alone has crossed.

Still, I think it creates problems for the show to have someone in it who is so much better than the others. For one thing, it removes a lot of interest and excitement from the competition to know who's going to win if from day 1. (And that interest and excitement will have already been lost even if Ray somehow doesn't win.)

Both training and natural ability are involved. The idea that it's all down to talent would mean that no amount of training, of any sort, should be a bar. Even professional figure skaters could enter the show and be defended on the grounds that "you've either got it or you haven't" and look how little training helped Michael and Greg.

All the training in the world, in anything, is not going to bring the average person up to the same standard as someone who has a natural aptitude for it.

Some people take longer to discover what they can and can't do (usually to do with confidence) but most people will just never reach the same level because they simply can't.

How much better do you need him to be???? I think Ray puts plenty of pressure on himself and would be trying to make sure he doesn't let his partner and T&D down.

I don't understand why you think the line up was chosen to get Ray and Jessica to the final?

I must admit I was a bit cynical about Ray's expressions of concern in the VT before his performance. I also failed to see any real increase in difficulty in the routine for him last night compared to last week (although admittedly I am no expert). So I was a bit surprised when he put in a less than perfect performance and am a bit confused as to why.

I agree 100% - that's life!

I do think there is a problem with Ray's routines though, because although we can all tell a badly skated routine from a well skated routine, we can't always tell what makes the choreography more complex than the other skaters are skating. The judges refer to it, but is not obvious to the general public.

it's not clear that that's true. Indeed, it's false in many cases if the person with natural aptitude hasn't had much (or any) training. But even if it were true, it would not invalidate my point.


That's probably right, but it also does not invalidate my point.

Ray is great but the choreography did not suit him - and this was a bit of a reality check - but back to exceptional next week with more suitable moves, playing to his gracefulness.

For once Jason made a decent point by saying the routine wasn't really suited to Ray's style, and Ray whole-heartedly agreed with him when given the chance to speak about his performance.

Nonetheless, he made a creditable job of a routine that looked pretty tricky to keep to the music and didn't make mistakes any worse than some of the others, despite the complexity of his routine being greater than Donal, Todd, Michael, Melinda or anyone else who made a mistake first time through.

Plus, the whole episode served to show that Ray is his own worst critic and will be keen to keep improving, which I think's the key to him remaining top of the pile and avoiding Austin Healey/John Barrowman 'coasting' syndrome.

I don't think either of them coasted. John just wasn't as good as he and his fans thought he was and when he found himself in the bottom two, he and his fans thought the judges would save him due to his God-given right. Austin was unlucky to find himself in the bottom two (at a stage in the competition where there should no longer be a bottom two) against the judges's and the Beeb's chosen one.

Who was the Beeb's "chosen one" - and why on earth would they have a "chosen one"?
Of all the reality show cliches (and there are many), surely this has to be the most infantile?

i dont agree Ray will peak too soon and hes definitely not ovverated,the judges were falling over themselves to praise Zoe when Ray is clearly head and shoulders above the rest...even on a (for him)bad week.
One stumble does not mean he wont continue to improve.
I believe he will.ive never seen anyone skate so well outside of their comfort zone,it would be an absolute travesty if he didnt win.

Austin was unlucky to find himself in the bottom two against a better dancer

Shame about Ray's stumble in an otherwise great routine.

But it just goes to show that he is as much a learner as anyone else when it comes to "dancing on ice" and has to work hard all week to try and get all the moves right.

He's very young - and it's a big pressure to cope with everything and try to keep bringing out great routines every week.

He is totally fabulous to watch....

I know it's probably unfair on some - but I love to see good skating and the better the contestants are the more enjoyable it is to watch.