I agree totally with that. It isnt possible for someone with Todd's lack of skating ability to act the clown.
My eldest son is a professional ice skater and I have some hilarious videos of him acting the clown in various christmas Ice shows. He however was skilled at it, you need to be in full control of your body and your skates to play the clown.

Todd has no skating ability and even if he trained from here to eternity would still be the same. He is a likeable guy, not afraid to laugh at himself.

Sure, but no one's saying he could repeat that sort of fall at will.


I think Todd has already shown that's not true.


That is difficult. But it is - obviously? - not what Todd's doing. Todd is not a skilled skater who is trying to play a poor one; he is a poor skater who is putting a comic coating on it.

I see very few people equating Todd/DOI and John/SCD, lots of posts on this board yes, but usually the same posters. I thought the JS/SCD votes escalated when the judges made their remarks outside of the SCD arena and it became an affront to the voters. The DOI judges have behaved completely different so the situations are different IMO. It is the media that seem to be trying to stir up the same frenzy.

If he is then he is exceptional. His legs are ramrod straight he has very little balance, a hairs breadth away from falling over all the time. He had a big grin on his face but it is not because he is acting the clown. Others have the same lack of softness = Colleen, though not so badly, Aggie was like that and Gregg. Some people will never skate no matter how long they train.

True.


What I like to see, in this show (and in SCD) is (1) celebs who are somewhere in the upper middle, who aren't already great but who can develop into good dancers / skaters during the show, and (2) a competition in which it's not clear who's going to be best in the end. (N.B. "best" rather than "win".)

Ray is too good, compared to the others, and Todd is too poor.



Chris and Jayne and Susie are also professionals who therefore might not voice such criticism publicly. So I don't think their silence on that point is conclusive.

I'd like to know how many hours the various celebs are putting in, and to see more taining footage, as we do with SCD. Perhaps Todd is making a real effort, but so far there's been little sign of it in his skating.

I think there's a difference between contestants who hit a plateau and ones who try to clown their way through rather than trying to get better. Some people like such "entertainers" and think the others are "taking it too seriously". I have the opposite sort of view.

Whatever Todd's doing, he obviously can do it. Right? After all, he's actually done it. So it can't be too difficult. None of the other skaters are playing up the "funny" side in the way he is, and since he's actually doing it, it can't be too difficult for him to do it in the way he is. (It doesn't matter if other ways to clown on ice are too difficult.)

Perhaps this week he will show signs of trying to skate well rather than trying to clown his way through, and then this whole discussion will become irrelevant.

Perhaps (re the subject of this thread) the papers will start to lose interest as well.

the more attention this situation get the more the public will vote to keep Todd in nice as he is Ray to win

People don't have to explitly state that they see Todd as another John S for it to be clear that they are applying the JS/SCD model to Todd/DOI.


One important reason it escalated in SCD was that John knew how to play to the anti-Judge / anti-producer vote. Poor dancers in earlier years hadn't done that, and, when they were saved, it was never really clear whether they were getting an "anti" vote or a "save them when most in danger" vote.

My dad was over visiting this afternoon and he said that he would love to see a skate-off between Ray and Todd. I knew what he was getting at, because he is scunnered with how these programmes are run to suit the producer's favourites. I could just see the producers holding their heads in their hands trying to weigh up getting rid of the person who is upping the viewing/advertising figures or the person who is the best skater.

Ah then you'd better get yourself on the selection panel for next series and vet the celebs to ensure we only get the ones who will turn out to be slightly better than mediocre and all have exactly the same backgrounds, relevant experience etc.

Then you'll need to stand over them with stopwatch and ensure they put in the required amounts training and effort and don't dare to actually enjoy themselves as it's a serious competition. And remember to tell Jayne and Chris they must not put in any lighthearted routines.

I'd suggest getting the judging panel some sensible judging criteria too, since they have none to go on at present and some method of ensuring that the public are not allowed to vote on personality or enjoyment but only on the actual ice dancing - they'll need some help with the criteria for this too since the number of peole who actually know what the skating moves are, or the level of difficulty, is extremely small.

I like this post,nicely put,its got me in the mood for DOI now

Love it, icedragon

The point of my first statement was that regardless of the number of posts, of which there are many I agree, they appear to be posted in multiple guises by the same few posters.

I wasn't aware that JS played any game, other than one comment saying the public would save them (he is savvy enough to know how the public vote in the beginning of this show, there is always at least one no-hoper kept for several weeks). IMO it was the judges behaviour that caused the anti-judges vote, if that is what it was, not John. What did John himself do to turn the public against the judges. All he did was dance badly and provide a lot of viewers with entertainment?

At the press conference Sergeant appeared bemused by the fuss that has erupted over his participation – but insisted it was his own decision to go.
"Anyone thinking that I can be leant on or bullied does not know me very well. I decide to choose my own battles.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...ing-realitytv1



Please re-read this VERY carefully, furious

Those views are absurd and not ones I've ever expressed.

He didn't turn people against the judges, but he exploited the anti-judge sentiment, and subtly encouraged it, in a way that no one had before.

Poor Tood. I feel he is this years token clown for the producers. They know full well he doesn't stand a chance of winning but will get popular support, and hopefully weed out along the way some of those who might improve to challenge their favourites to win.

It does though seem that this years bunch have either been picked as they are truely terrible or have been given limited training because of other commitments to boost the chances of those with a little talent or more training, which is unfair.

Perhaps if Todd hadn't done panto but had more training he might be better. However I feel because he had that serious ear infection last year his sense of balance may still be affected, making him nervous and unsteady.

I didn't know about that. I imagine that could definitely make a difference, which makes me wonder, if that's the case, why he'd do DOI

So Kate and Anton asking for the public to vote to keep them in, James Jordan encouraging people to vote for Kenny Logan, who was dancing with Ola at the time, didn't happen then . IMO People who voted for them did so for an equal variety of reasons including an anti-judge faction, perhaps not in such large numbers as for John Sergeant but still the same. As I have said , the judges kept up the media interest as much as anyone else by not restricting their comments to the show, unlike in previous years.

Perhaps JS did play a masterful game, but he certainly could not have done it without their help and I don't believe anyone can claim he started it, so I am a little confused as to why people should be angry that he turned an existing situation to his advantage

I agree with some other posters that a similar situation could arise with Todd on DOI but ONLY if there is a backlash against him simply because he is fortunate enough to receive a lot of votes. The same arguments and rhetoric are being regurgitated on this board as appeared on the SCD boards. Hopefully the DOI judges will exercise more restraint and this won't happen.

Unfortunate comments such as 'you two should not be in the bottom' do not help IMO. They were in the bottom two because they didn't get enough combined vote to put them higher. Some of those that voted for Todd because they still find him more entertaining to watch than others, may eventually find him less so and will stop voting for him unless someone tells them their opinion is not as valid as someone else's, be that the judges or other viewers. Humans are a perverse species

Comments from the judges like,

'You two should not be in the bottom two'

are very similar to what was said on SCD before the whole thing exploded.

If the judges can contain themselves next week when Todd and Coleen go through again all may be well.

But in the end you just know their sheer arrogance will get the better of them, and they will not be able to help themselves but to crank up the nasty comments and eventually start spitting venom.

The moment this happens we will all know exactly where we are going, The Great British Public will rise to the challenge, and before you know where you are Sergeant Todd and Coleen will be in the final and we can all live happily ever after.