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LCD/Plasma - over rated?


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Old 01-02-2009, 15:20
GreyMack
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I have so many questions about LCD/Plasma tv's it hurts but here goes.
First up about 5 years ago we bought one of the first 17" widescreen tv's a nice silver philips and how we loved that tv.
Recently it started acting up so going against the credit crunch we splashed out on a samsung LE19A656 as seen here - http://www.1staudiovisual.co.uk/cata...ma-tv-shop=213
Lovely to look at but i have been so underwhelmed with the performance compared to my old philips.
For starters the picture is only really viewable from straight in front, move to the sides and it fades quite badly, same on the vertical. Also the amount of ghosting is horrendous, try watching 24 with it's fast moving action and it's clear to see how poor it is.
Moving on though this has put severe doubts in my mind regading a future upgrade of our living room tv. I currently have an old sony which would take a team of 6 professional thieves to steal
That tv though is viewed from many different angles and so a new lcd/plasma tv in my lounge would have to do what my bedroom samsung can't do and that is show the same picture no matter what view your sitting at. I would want no ghosting and well to be blunt are lcd's / plasmas better/as good/worse than old school crt tv's picture wise?
I know they look good in their piano black sexy cases but are the pictures any good?

I recently read a magazine and it seemed obsessed with reviewing these tv's based apon how they perform on HD or blue ray playback. Perhaps that is telling me that when these tv's come into their own rather than working well on SD pictures.

Thanks for letting me rant on appreciate any thoughts u may have
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Old 01-02-2009, 17:35
Providence
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I got given a Philips plasma which was the only reason I got rid of my 36" Toshiba CRT. In terms of fast motion and viewing angles the plasma's fine. It is only bad on slow left/right pans and how bad seems to be dependent on the bit rate of the channel being watched. This problem though is enough for me to conclude that if you have a good CRT and you're not in a rush for HD then stay with it.

My friend's LCD has retricted viewing angle and motion blurs as do most LCDs I have seen.

It's possible that a number of people will disagree but IMHO for SD it works thus:

1. CRT 2. Plasma 3. LCD

I wouldn't touch any of the current LCDs with a bargepole. When I've saved up enough I'm getting a Panasonic plasma....
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Old 01-02-2009, 19:30
misterbarlow
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my previous lcd was a cheap one and was only average SD pq, but recently bought a Toshiba 42" and the SD pic is excellent in comparison..
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Old 01-02-2009, 19:35
chrisbartley
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I already saved enough for a panasonic plasma, had it some 7 months now, so not speaking with the first flush of a new user smitten with their new purchase. (edit: not refering to you misterbarlow, had started typing this before your response,)

I got a 42px80, and the viewing angle is as wide as you could reasonably want,once you have moved right the side you might see a slight reflection of the image on the front glass, but this is from an extreme angle, no seraration of colour layers or any of those effects ( refering to lap top screens here, but suppose lcd tvs might do similar)

Regarding judder, motion blur, really there is nothing worth speaking of, to my eyes

I was one of those who was never going to touch one of those new fangled tvs based on what horibble pictures I had seen in stores and some friend houses until I saw one of these (42px80) in action in a house.

You can see why buyers get caught out, those LCD tvs do show a very vibrant/colourful picture in stores compared to plasmas, but there are so many stories of pople not happy with LCDs once they start living with it

also I should have said my main use is freeview and dvd only
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Old 01-02-2009, 20:42
GreyMack
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I know what kind of person i am and i would hate to pay a lot of money for something i'm going to sit and complain about.
If and when i do get one i'm thinking of 37" which seems to be on the cusp of lcd/plasma.

It's such a difficult decision i'm loath to do anything but i feel my hand may be forced as my old sont crt is having issues showing a stable colour, it flickers when there are bright colours on screen, so it may be about to go. The longer it lasts the better IMO.

Another thing putting me off a new telly is the fact u dont seem to get a stand unit anymore, i remember the days when you not only got a tv but a piece of furniture for your hard earned money
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Old 01-02-2009, 20:48
tomconti
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It does sound as if the Samsung set was bit of old tat.

Despite some users raving on about the quality of Samsung sets they are and always have been a budget make and I would never even have Samsung equipment in my system.

I have a Pansonic LCD and the performance is superb with upscaled SD and HD is of course great too.

However a browse around any forum would show that if you are fussy about pictures then buying an LCD or plasma because of its sexy slim look is a daft idea unless you intend to use HD equipment or at the very least devices like Sky HD or the PS3 to upscale SD material.

I would agree that non upscaled material looks poor most of the time on any flat panel and in a lot of cases wont get even close to CRT clarity.

I find the devices rather than the set itself does upscaling better

Digital tv is the main culprit as all the channels use a far lower bitrate than they should and lcd plasma will show this up more than CRT.

My advice is to buy some equipment first that will actually give you a decent picture before you buy the set
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Old 01-02-2009, 21:28
GreyMack
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Cheers Tom

I'm basically doing my homework until the old crt gives up then hopefully i'll be armed with enough info to chose wisely.
One thing i like about the plasma is the fact it has a glass front to the screen, i wonder how many parents with young children have damaged lcd screens due to prying hands?

Incidentally on the samsung we get 3 sources of picture to that tv, well 4 if you include our upscalling dvd player. The picture sources are all taken from a coaxal cable from my sky+ box in the living room. First we have freeview which is a very good picture, u still get motion issues but not as bad mainly down to the fact the image is a lot sharper. Then we have. The image is so good i assume because the digital receiver is built into the tv.
Normal telly, bbc1, bbc2 etc taken from outside ariel into sky+ box and sent up stairs.................rubbish as you'd imagine.
And finally Sky via the cable and magic eye set up. In general the picture is very good, watch something like QI and it's as clear as the freeview pic but as i said before watch 24 and it's poor. Now i have to admit for whatever reason 24 doesn't look that great on my sony crt either, for a great show they seem to film it on a handheld camcorder, but then a lot of shows have that look.

Some one wrote earlier or i read somewhere about LCD's and theyre smearing, that's a very good description as that is what the samsung is like but i'll tell you something that old philips LCD never had a single issue, viewable from all angles, no smearing, no ghosting..............i stupidly thought lcd technology had moved and would be even better, sadly it's gone backwards.

Cheers for your advice.
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Old 01-02-2009, 22:09
edgexedge
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lcd technology does keep improving, but viewing is down to the individual panel, not lcd's in general

as for viewing angles, you might have been able to watch a crt at a greater angle, but that might not be 'optimum'
look at a cinema, often the seating area is no wider than the screen


also, lcd & plasma are still in development, theyve had ~10 years, whereas your old crt was the result of 3 or 4 times that length of development time


we have a sharp lcd, & it seems fine
they dont seem to be that 'big' a brand, maybe more of your money goes on the product instead of marketing
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:28
roddydogs
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Yippe!!! The Daily LCD/Plasma post...........part 509!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:34
Barry Scott
 
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Our Hitachi Plasma is 5 year old and it's still mustard.
We haven't had to have it re-gassed once
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:09
carguy143
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We have just got a sharp 42inch LCD in our front room, the picture is great, the sound is great, just a shame the menus are so fidly and not as logical as my 37inch Samsung. The remote on ths Sharp isn't that great though, you have to have it pointed DIRECTLY at the sensor on the TV and even then doesn't seem that responsive.

The Samsung LCD is a couple of years old now, sounds great, looks great, and the menus are great too. The picture doesn't seem to be as clear compared to the Sharp, but still brilliant.

My nan bought a 32inch Samsung LCD about 7 months ago, the picture is good, the sound is ok, but sounds kinda tinny compared to the other tvs we have. The problem with this Samsung is the menus seem so slow to react. Looking through the TV guide, or changing channels seems to take this set forever to do!
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Old 02-02-2009, 13:55
emptybox
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Unfortunately TV manufacturers seem to put cheap TN LCD panels in smaller TVs nowadays, to keep the price down, and these give poor viewing angles, typically 170/160.

I've also got a 17" silver philips widescreen LCD, of 5 years old (still going strong), but that's got a proper (TV standard) LCD panel that has 178/178 viewing angles. Mind you, it cost me well over £400 at the time.

Even Panasonic put the cheaper panels in some of their 26" TVs, but move up to 32" and you get proper 178/178 viewing angles.
Just make sure you look for that in the specs, and you will be OK.
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Old 02-02-2009, 20:44
tomconti
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Unfortunately TV manufacturers seem to put cheap TN LCD panels in smaller TVs nowadays, to keep the price down, and these give poor viewing angles, typically 170/160.

I've also got a 17" silver philips widescreen LCD, of 5 years old (still going strong), but that's got a proper (TV standard) LCD panel that has 178/178 viewing angles. Mind you, it cost me well over £400 at the time.

Even Panasonic put the cheaper panels in some of their 26" TVs, but move up to 32" and you get proper 178/178 viewing angles.
Just make sure you look for that in the specs, and you will be OK.
I have a Panny 32" LCD and I was surprised that I cant stand anywhere in the room and see the picture fading as I expected it to- good job I never got the smaller one
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Old 03-02-2009, 18:21
RichmondBlue
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It does sound as if the Samsung set was bit of old tat.

Despite some users raving on about the quality of Samsung sets they are and always have been a budget make and I would never even have Samsung equipment in my system.

I have a Pansonic LCD and the performance is superb with upscaled SD and HD is of course great too.

However a browse around any forum would show that if you are fussy about pictures then buying an LCD or plasma because of its sexy slim look is a daft idea unless you intend to use HD equipment or at the very least devices like Sky HD or the PS3 to upscale SD material.

I would agree that non upscaled material looks poor most of the time on any flat panel and in a lot of cases wont get even close to CRT clarity.

I find the devices rather than the set itself does upscaling better

Digital tv is the main culprit as all the channels use a far lower bitrate than they should and lcd plasma will show this up more than CRT.

My advice is to buy some equipment first that will actually give you a decent picture before you buy the set
I would second that opinion. I was tempted with the Samsung solely on appearance..it is a lovely design.
After some research, I went for a Panasonic LCD..it has been superb. We have a number of friends who went for the Samsung and most regret it in terms of picture quality.
I still think that maybe I should have gone for a plasma ( for sport etc ) received some bad advice on that..I should have come in here and asked around earlier. Still, I'm more than happy with what I've got for now.
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Old 04-02-2009, 13:58
Chris Green
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If and when i do get one i'm thinking of 37" which seems to be on the cusp of lcd/plasma.

This was precisely my position - loathe to give up a 7 year old Sony 32" which was finally starting to act up, having missed out on firmware upgrades over the air for the freeview bits (it was now refusing to do a proper retune).

Decided to get something bigger but not so large it dominated the lounge - got the Panasonic 37" 37PX80 plasma and am delighted, in particular with its SD performance, which let's face it will still be a sizeable part of what I watch for years to come.
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Old 04-02-2009, 19:17
Mike_1101
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I too wasn't convinced by LCD or plasma until very recently, I was shown a 42" Panasonic plasma set with Freesat and a 5 year guarantee for £850. This was an independent local dealer who is a Panasonic agent. The set was impressive.

What is the best place to install them, on the wall so you look up to watch them or lower down so you are looking straight ahead or slightly down?

There was a belief years ago that people could get eyestrain or worse, from looking up at a tv screen, or was this an "old wives tale"?
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Old 04-02-2009, 19:59
John Currie
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There was a belief years ago that people could get eyestrain or worse, from looking up at a tv screen, or was this an "old wives tale"?
No, it's neck strain...ideally you should be viewing at eye level.
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Old 04-02-2009, 20:21
Paul M C
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Going back to the OP statement...well, up until about 5 weeks ago, I would have said exactly the same.

I had a Sony CRT 32" Widescreen set - bought only in November 2004 for (ouch!!!) £900. It was (and still is) a superb picture, and I understand, is one of the last CRT widescreens that Sony ever made. (KV32CS70).

I had been after changing it for months - not because there was anything wrong with it what so ever - but simply because I really wanted a 42" screen.

I had looked in many, many different showrooms at various Plasma/LCD sets. I was mainly concered with how Freeview SD images looked (at the moment I have no interest or equipment to play HD stuff/gaming etc).

I remember being constantly disappointed at both Plasma and LCD with regards Freeview images, compared to my Sony CRT. However, I had a sneaky feeling that if I changed sets, it would be to plasma, because the SD images on some (Panasonics in particular) looked about "the best".

However, just after Christmas, Curry's reduced the 42" Plasma Panasonic PX80 to £499, in line with some other retailers at the time - and I suddenly thought - "What the hell!" - lets just do it.

I am soooo glad I did! When I got in home and set it up on New Years Day this year, it looks fab for Freeview - much better to my eyes than my CRT - which I thought was impossible!

Ok, so some lower bitrate freeview channels look a tad ropey - but then they did a bit on the old CRT. However, in general, I am very pleased and love watching tv now on a 42" screen.

Personally (and don't hate me for this - please!!!) I didn't see an LCD screen with brilliant freeview images - I know they are brighter and HD looks fab on them - but for me, in the end, it was Plasma that won....

And - I cannot comment enough on just how true several posters on this site and others said about the fact if you think 42" initially looks "too big" in your front room when you first set it up, it really does seem to magically "shrink" and now I think nothing of the size of the screen! - Except I suppose when I pop my head round my 7 year old son's bedroom door and see just how small the Sony CRT 32" actually looked - now it's been relagated into his room!!!!
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Old 04-02-2009, 20:45
Mike_1101
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No, it's neck strain...ideally you should be viewing at eye level.
I only wondered as many publicity photographs and "glossy magazines" show them installed fairly high up on walls!
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Old 04-02-2009, 21:04
Nigel Goodwin
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I only wondered as many publicity photographs and "glossy magazines" show them installed fairly high up on walls!
Because people are idiots

As already suggested, if it's too high it gives you a pain in the neck.

We fitted one for a guy, asked him where he wanted it - told him that was too high, but he insisted, so we fitted it (heard from his wife later that he never watched it, as it hurt his neck).

Anyway, a few years later (last year in fact) we went to fit him another TV in a different room, this time he was far more susceptible to our height suggestions - and on passing through the previous room the TV was mysteriously lower than it was originally
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:44
witham1
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Paul M C

I have the same dilemma. I currently use a Sony 32inch CRT, but I would like to change to a flat panel display – but which one?
I will use it mainly for SD. But looking around the shops I am not convinced that the SD pictures are as good as on my CRT.
Perhaps I will go for a plasma display as you say that they are better at displaying SD pictures than LCD.

Rob
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Old 05-02-2009, 13:44
Rega
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Hi, I found this discussion very interesting. I have a Philips 32" digital TV and although it is only just over 5 years old, and it cost £1000, the tube is on its way out. It is actually an LG tube. Our previous TV was a Sony trinitron and lasted over 20 years, although the picture deteriorated towards the end. Anyway, just before Xmas, after reading several reviews I decided to buy a Sony 40" LCD so I went to John Lewis to buy it. After looking at the appalling pictures on all the TVs in John Lewis I came away without buying a TV and very disappointed with both LCD and Plasma. All the TVs had ghosting and movement blur, and one scene where an actor poked his face out of an ice cream van window in a soap (Freeview SD) his facial features were almost indiscernible. There was no doubt that my CRT was far superior. Subsequently I have visited many more shops to check out TVs and have found that there is a big variation from one shop to another due to the quality of their signal reception and distribution. The best being a Sony shop. HD is better than SD of course but nevertheless, I have still not seen a picture as good as my CRT. I don’t think that either technology is destined to last because I believe that both technologies are flawed and unsuited to the task, hence all the development is making only small improvements such that some quite different technology is required! However, I very nearly decided to buy a Panasonic 42” PZ81 plasma with Freesat for two reasons: one, I feel that movement is less blurred with plasma because the refresh of pixels on a plasma screen is almost instantaneous but LCDs have a much slower refresh, meaning that the picture does not redraw as quickly as the scene changes; and two, because Freesat provides a number of HD channels so at least some viewing will be almost acceptable. However, I did not buy one when I discovered that it had four cooling fans along the top. I have a lot of experience with PCs and I know that cooling fans frequently become noisy and fail. This leads me to the reason for posting a message, and that is can anybody tell me if the noise from the fans is audible and obtrusive? This cannot be determined in a shop where the ambient noise is already considerable. And has anybody any experience of fans failing, and would you know if a fan or two failed before the TV overheated!
Thanks.
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Old 05-02-2009, 14:08
Nigel Goodwin
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Hi, I found this discussion very interesting. I have a Philips 32" digital TV and although it is only just over 5 years old, and it cost £1000, the tube is on its way out. It is actually an LG tube.
No it's not, it's a "Philips/LG Displays" CRT - and they have been an absolute disaster, with premature failure commonplace, at five years you've done exceptionally well.
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Old 05-02-2009, 14:11
ROB_123
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Not being funny but 3,000:1 isnt going to give you an amazing picture, but it shouldn't be as bad as you are saying it is???

I have a small lcd in my room hucked up to sky via a scart and the picture is fine and i only paid about £200 in Q1 08
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Old 05-02-2009, 17:42
Rega
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Hi Nigel. The tube is labelled LG - no sign of Philips on it, but when it is working properly it is better than any LCD or plasma that I have seen. I know that these TVs have had a lot of problems though. Rightly or wrongly I will not be considering a Philips this time.
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