Hi
I am sure the answer is on here, but my searching has proved fruitless.
Is the only way to backup BBC HD off the hard drive to record it in non freesat mode?
thanks

No, in addition you can pop the lid and remove the HDR drive and connect it to a PC or put it in a hard drive enclosure... (but Enc HD recordings are encrypted and can only be played back on an internal HDR drive, at the moment.)

Yes, BBC HD is copy protected.

This really is pretty annoying. In the case of the BBC HD stuff, by and large it's the same stuff that's broadcast in SD. If I can archive that in SD, why not the HD version? It's all well and good building-up a library of HD stuff on the recorder's hard disk, but at some point you're gonna need to reclaim that space, not forgetting of course that disk drives fail.

I really hope that someone (more clever than me, to be certain) comes-up with way to crack this issue. As a licence payer I'd like to be able to create archives of some programmes that are broadcast in the best possible quality. The copy protection or whatever is employed is in effect treating legitimate viewers as criminals, IMO.


Clem

There is a way but only with certain TV's. Some sets have three or more scarts sockets.on mine a Sony,scart socket two lets you record to VCR/ DVD recorder from TV,which means I can play my Humax HDR and what is shown on the screen can be recorded through scart socket two. But beware if you use the scarts with all leads connected you get feedback.Use the scart leads that on have the minimum number of wires connected.Works fine for me and others who have tried it. But has I have said only tv's that let you record through a scart socket.

You only get composite video SD in this way and as this is also available on the Foxsat VCR scart anyway, you gain nothing this way. Scart connections on TV's only output SD CVBS and stereo analogue audio.

I did the same on my Philips TV,Philps lets you alter the scart setting so that you can send signal from one scart or TV to another outbound scart socket,it also lets you pick which input you want to record from ie:Hdmi,scart,TV etc.

Your complaint seems entirely justified to me. The people who set up the freesat spec disagree, however. Blame is usually put on the shoulders of 'the studios', though I don't know the detail of how this arrangement was developed. The result is the use of technological means to prevent what has been defined as legal for years (timeshifting), hence bypassing legally won freedoms. (It seems there is a difference between timeshifting and archiving, but both are being eased out.) The extension of technological capabilities for consumers (perfect copy capability) *may* need some refinement of law, though the ability to write the bitstream directly to DVD has been around for quite a while now. This isn't how it's being done, however: the balance between incentives for producers and the public good is being destroyed by force by the rights holders, who are apparently unaccountable.

Most people probably aren't aware in the slightest of what is happening, but they may be less indifferent to it when all TV is HD. There is talk that the BBC will relax restrictions on its own programmes in time, but there has been no sign of it so far.

The foxsat includes an encryption chip which seems to work pretty well! On other threads people have examined the basics of what it does and have come to the conclusion it would take some quite advanced analysis to undo it.

The TV signal itself is unencrypted, and there are boxes out there (which cannot use the freesat logo) which will record it in the clear, and have a 7 day epg. They are single tuner and not quite ready for prime time IMO. More refined ones are said to be on the way. There are also PC based solutions. I think there are interesting times ahead.

The foxsat-hdr if switched to non freesat mode, turned off and on again will work the same as a generic fta box. Eg It will record BBC HD without encryption as any other fta HD pvr can. Only snag is you have to manually start recording and manually set a recording duration. As you say no epg though.

I know the OP knows this but others joining this thread might not be aware of this workaround

It was the inability to set timers in the epg for unencrypted HD which put me off the foxsat. The alternative is a bit flaky atm, but they are still issuing beta firmware. It will work brilliantly one day, I'm sure!

But yes, it's still much better than nothing to be able to do it manually on the foxsat.

Hi everybody.

first a clarification: do I understand correctly that if one records in Non-Freesat mode any programme whatsoever, it will be possible to copy the TS file out of the box (unencrypted) and, say, play it on a computer?

then, a question (with apologies if it turns out to be silly): what prevents one from setting the recordings using EPG in Freesat mode, and then turning to Non-Freesat for recording without encryption and copy-protection? I have read above that switching in and out of Freesat mode will not erase your scheduled timers.

Thanks.

when you turn to Non-freesat mode, your scheduled timers won't be triggered - the freesat timers only work when in freesat mode.

Yes they are provided you go into non freesat mode at least 15 min before a recording is due. The box gives you a warning and switches itself back to Freesat mode to make the recording. Same thing happens if you put the box in sby from Non Freesat mode, a subsequent freesat recording switches mode and the box will be in Freesat mode the next time you boot it.

Technically speaking, the timeshifting exception in copyright law specifically does not allow the creation of an archive of recordings; of course enforcing that is next to impossible, and pointing out is verging on pedantic.

But there are obviously concerns that may be higher up the agenda for broadcasters or content owners, when a bit-perfect copy can be made of material in high resolution, rather than a VHS copy, which at best would only have been around half the resolution of the broadcast PAL signal.

The last comment on this from the BBC was that it is their intention, eventually, to be able to signal different restrictions for each individual programme, but their playout chain does not yet allow them to do that. As a result, it has to be locked to the most restrictive setting.

I guess we simply have to be patient and wait for the update to their playout chain.

I think what vdmsss was trying to achieve was setting the timer for a prog from the EPG in Freesat mode, then switching the box into non-Freesat mode to achieve unencrypted HD, and hoping his EPG timers would record unencrypted, on non-freesat, because he had switched to non-freesat mode.

Which, of course, will not work

@vdmsss,
Freesat EPG timers do not control recording in non-freesat mode. You can only do manual recording whilst you are actually in non-freesat mode. As GT has already explained how the box can switch back into freesat mode for its freesat recordings, but these will be Freesat recordings, and any HD will be encrypted.

Hope I've explained this clearly for you.

Rgds.


Les.

Sorry, I had lost track of this thread. Getting back to the point,
it was clear to me that a timer programmed in freesat-mode
would not be made to record in non-freesat mode. My question
was slightly different: Is there any way at all, no matter how
uncomfortable, to programme a timer in non-freesat mode?
I understand there is no EPG, as that is freesat trademarked,
but is there at alternative way to say "record channel N on
such day from time H to time K", and then switch the box
off and go? I ask because to lose the EPG would be a pity, but
possibly still acceptable for me. It would all be far less palatable
if I had to be physically present to start and stop a recording
each time I want it non-encrypted, if you see what I mean.

Thanks

I have the same problem. How to schedule a start stop recording in Non-Freesat mode. I thought I'd achieved a breakthrough when I saw a reference to using schedule to manually set times, but this doesn't work in Non-Freesat mode!
Why have they put a feature that is pretty superfluous for Freesat with EPG in the Freesat mode and not, where it is obviously needed, in the Non-Freesat mode?
Do I really have to stay up until 1.30 in the morning to stop a film recording in Non-Freesat?

No you don't. You have to be there at the start to press the red record button. If you press the red button a 2nd time you can alter the recording duration

Many thanks for that info, at least I don't have to set an alarm clock in the wee hours to wake me up to shut it off! I just wish that I could program a start time. Does the time duration setting always default to over 7 hours? It's not the most obvious choice for a default!
I think that before we get another system upgrade, perhaps the guys could document all of the existing undocumented features. I'm getting quite a list together of secret hints and tips from this forum.

I have a couple of really primitive questions.

This whole thread seems to imply that the HDR knows that the encrypted output is going to a TV rather than recording device !

1-- How does it do that ?

2-- I could take the HDR output lead & do a soldering job to fork it to two connectors, one to TV & other to my recorder (DVD writer or hard-drive or even a large wax cylinder) Would the HDR know that I was recording as well as watching ?

David

That's what HDCP does (High Definition Copy Protection). The TV handshakes information with a HD source that says "Go ahead I am a display not a recorder". A gadget called an HDfury2 can convert HDCP hdmi to recordable component HD. HD capable recording devices (blu-ray) don't have hdmi inputs, some will record from hd component signals.

what a pity. well, i guess that no matter how cool it seems to be, this machine is not for me. at least until a new version of the firmware will enable some form of scheduled recording for non-freesat.

A while ago all BBC HD recordings were showing up as "non copy-able" (disk Icon with a red X across). IE the whole of the "Ladies Detective Agency" series was like this. However more recent programs allow one copy to a USB drive. After this one copy, both the copy and the original are marked with the dreaded "non-copy-able" icon.

However. it is remarkably easy to move the disk out side the box into an external ESata enclosure (cost about £25-40 you can get them at Maplins or on the Web).

See Here for instructions.

I just bought an enclosure and moved the existing disk outside. Very quick and simple. One thing about those instructions, put the empty hardisk case and fan back, do not remove it. The fan is cooling the CPU!!!

After you have done this you can copy any of those BBC HD programs to you hearts content.

I did this mod months ago and did not return the fan. The case even above the cpu is not even warm even after a couple of hours recording 2 HD and replaying a 3rd. I used a drop in cradle rather than an enclosure so can swap the discs in seconds. To archive lots of HD just drop in the original 320Gb and drop the 1Tb into another cradle on my desktop and let it get on with it. I use the hdr power supply to control a relay which switches the external cradle and modulator on and off with the hdr.

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