I think Ray may be better in my eyes.
Chris Fountain v Ray Quinn
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TBH I don't actually agree that Ray is a better Skater then Chris - but he is cleaner and more polished so his kind of routines are the stylish, dancewise, theatrical kind that judges like Jason and Ruthie adore.
Chris for one thing didn't start at the same level as Ray, his first mark was 20, where as Ray's was 23.5. He had all the substance to be a great skater but he was messy to begin with (some will argue that he was messy from start to final but I just saw his skating to have a bit of an edge and to be more exciting.) Also I think he grew more then Ray has, because Chris constantly pushed himself as a skater trying to acheive axels and other things. His routines were more appealing to a younger audience as they were more contemporary then show styles.
If Ray tries to push his skating skills further, I think he will end up better then Chris by Champion of Champions. However, I think both Chris and Kyran (apart from the fact they can do better lifts) were just more exciting and it was their skating that was pushed and that was entertaining.
PLUS I'd love to see Ray try THAT SPIN!
Chris for one thing didn't start at the same level as Ray, his first mark was 20, where as Ray's was 23.5. He had all the substance to be a great skater but he was messy to begin with (some will argue that he was messy from start to final but I just saw his skating to have a bit of an edge and to be more exciting.) Also I think he grew more then Ray has, because Chris constantly pushed himself as a skater trying to acheive axels and other things. His routines were more appealing to a younger audience as they were more contemporary then show styles.
If Ray tries to push his skating skills further, I think he will end up better then Chris by Champion of Champions. However, I think both Chris and Kyran (apart from the fact they can do better lifts) were just more exciting and it was their skating that was pushed and that was entertaining.
PLUS I'd love to see Ray try THAT SPIN!
Originally Posted by Pinkelephant99:
“TBH I don't actually agree that Ray is a better Skater then Chris - but he is cleaner and more polished so his kind of routines are the stylish, dancewise, theatrical kind that judges like Jason and Ruthie adore.
Chris for one thing didn't start at the same level as Ray, his first mark was 20, where as Ray's was 23.5. He had all the substance to be a great skater but he was messy to begin with (some will argue that he was messy from start to final but I just saw his skating to have a bit of an edge and to be more exciting.) Also I think he grew more then Ray has, because Chris constantly pushed himself as a skater trying to acheive axels and other things. His routines were more appealing to a younger audience as they were more contemporary then show styles.
If Ray tries to push his skating skills further, I think he will end up better then Chris by Champion of Champions. However, I think both Chris and Kyran (apart from the fact they can do better lifts) were just more exciting and it was their skating that was pushed and that was entertaining.
PLUS I'd love to see Ray try THAT SPIN!”
“TBH I don't actually agree that Ray is a better Skater then Chris - but he is cleaner and more polished so his kind of routines are the stylish, dancewise, theatrical kind that judges like Jason and Ruthie adore.
Chris for one thing didn't start at the same level as Ray, his first mark was 20, where as Ray's was 23.5. He had all the substance to be a great skater but he was messy to begin with (some will argue that he was messy from start to final but I just saw his skating to have a bit of an edge and to be more exciting.) Also I think he grew more then Ray has, because Chris constantly pushed himself as a skater trying to acheive axels and other things. His routines were more appealing to a younger audience as they were more contemporary then show styles.
If Ray tries to push his skating skills further, I think he will end up better then Chris by Champion of Champions. However, I think both Chris and Kyran (apart from the fact they can do better lifts) were just more exciting and it was their skating that was pushed and that was entertaining.
PLUS I'd love to see Ray try THAT SPIN!”
Chris may have tried an axel, but I've never seen him pull it off. He may have managed to stay on his feet, but it was graceless and ungainly, and neither time was a full rotation. What is the point of trying something and screwing it up constantly, that's not entertaining, that's crass. It's like me playing Tchaikovsky's piano concerto in a competition and expecting full marks for attempting it, despite the fact that there is no way on earth that I am ever going to be able to play it faultlessly.
I'd love to see Ray try that spin too, I'm sure he'd make just as good, if not better, a job of it, particularly as he can already do jumps and spins on his rollerblades.
I'd go for Ray. he's a better dancer than Chris so has more grace and flexibility on the ice. I'd also love to see him do THAT spin and I'm sure we'll see one before the show is out.
Not that Chris wasn't brilliant, but I just think Ray will go the extra mile.
Not that Chris wasn't brilliant, but I just think Ray will go the extra mile.
I think people are forgetting that Ray has only done four routines and hasn't actually needed to pull out the stops in any of them (apart maybe from the first where he might have wanted to establish a standard).
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.
Originally Posted by SliverOfDiamond:
“Chris may have tried an axel, but I've never seen him pull it off. He may have managed to stay on his feet, but it was graceless and ungainly, and neither time was a full rotation. What is the point of trying something and screwing it up constantly, that's not entertaining, that's crass. It's like me playing Tchaikovsky's piano concerto in a competition and expecting full marks for attempting it, despite the fact that there is no way on earth that I am ever going to be able to play it faultlessly.
I'd love to see Ray try that spin too, I'm sure he'd make just as good, if not better, a job of it, particularly as he can already do jumps and spins on his rollerblades.”
“Chris may have tried an axel, but I've never seen him pull it off. He may have managed to stay on his feet, but it was graceless and ungainly, and neither time was a full rotation. What is the point of trying something and screwing it up constantly, that's not entertaining, that's crass. It's like me playing Tchaikovsky's piano concerto in a competition and expecting full marks for attempting it, despite the fact that there is no way on earth that I am ever going to be able to play it faultlessly.
I'd love to see Ray try that spin too, I'm sure he'd make just as good, if not better, a job of it, particularly as he can already do jumps and spins on his rollerblades.”
Obviously you're not getting the concept of the show!! The skaters are supposed to improve week by week and try different things. Ray probably will me able to do the spin and the axel, as you said he can already do tricks on his rollerblades. At least Chris looked as if he was enjoying himself and most people apart from you found him VERY entertaining.
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“I think people are forgetting that Ray has only done four routines and hasn't actually needed to pull out the stops in any of them (apart maybe from the first where he might have wanted to establish a standard).
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.”
“I think people are forgetting that Ray has only done four routines and hasn't actually needed to pull out the stops in any of them (apart maybe from the first where he might have wanted to establish a standard).
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.”
He hasn't had to push his skating as he has no competition at the moment. I just hope somebody can improve enough to compete with him as I'm finding it quite boring as with Rays experience it seems to be a one horse race with no excitement on the show.
Chris was my favourite last year but im afraid Ray wipes the floor with him.Chris doesnt have Rays natural style.
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“I think people are forgetting that Ray has only done four routines and hasn't actually needed to pull out the stops in any of them (apart maybe from the first where he might have wanted to establish a standard).
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.”
“I think people are forgetting that Ray has only done four routines and hasn't actually needed to pull out the stops in any of them (apart maybe from the first where he might have wanted to establish a standard).
I think it's a little early to start saying that Ray hasn't pushed his skating. He's still got plenty of time. It makes more sense to hold back right now.”
Well, unless there's some really serious manipulation going on behind the scenes, then I think Ray should be nagging at every turn to do bigger, bolder things on skates.
I don't really subscribe to the theory that the producers are holding him back to preserve the illusion of a competition. The gap between Chris and Suzanne was about the same as between Ray and Jessica/Zoe at this stage (give or take 1 point), and people were talking about a one-horse race then too.
Presumably Ray was attracted to the idea of DOI because of the skating element. Everything else involved in ice dance - the grace, the style, the musicality - he can handle.
Plus, the boy's behaviour shows he is clearly a natural perfectionist, and those sort of people tend to get frustrated if they don't keep bettering their own performances week on week. It shouldn't be enough just to keep beating the other competitors if he's not improving in his own right.
I don't advocate tricks for the sake of tricks, as you'll see in some of my other posts, but the only thing left for him to conquer is the actual technique of skating, and it's my belief that he should be getting on with this side of things and not settling into any sort of comfort zone.
Originally Posted by Dangermoose:
“Feel free to move in to our ... ahem .. Donal appreciation thread
[/b]”
“Feel free to move in to our ... ahem .. Donal appreciation thread
[/b]”
Thanks, he is lovely I think
Originally Posted by lilyscent:
“He hasn't had to push his skating as he has no competition at the moment. I just hope somebody can improve enough to compete with him as I'm finding it quite boring as with Rays experience it seems to be a one horse race with no excitement on the show.”
“He hasn't had to push his skating as he has no competition at the moment. I just hope somebody can improve enough to compete with him as I'm finding it quite boring as with Rays experience it seems to be a one horse race with no excitement on the show.”
Ray is pushing his skating. Maria has said so in her blog and has said how difficult he finds some of it - the trouble is he ends up with such a polished performance and gives the appearance of doing it with ease, it looks like he hasn't been pushed.
as an ice dancer-ray
as an entertainer-chris
both are amazing, but ray has the edge in that his performance is more polished, but i enjoyed watching chris more.
as an entertainer-chris
both are amazing, but ray has the edge in that his performance is more polished, but i enjoyed watching chris more.
Originally Posted by lilyscent:
“Obviously you're not getting the concept of the show!! The skaters are supposed to improve week by week and try different things. Ray probably will me able to do the spin and the axel, as you said he can already do tricks on his rollerblades. At least Chris looked as if he was enjoying himself and most people apart from you found him VERY entertaining.”
“Obviously you're not getting the concept of the show!! The skaters are supposed to improve week by week and try different things. Ray probably will me able to do the spin and the axel, as you said he can already do tricks on his rollerblades. At least Chris looked as if he was enjoying himself and most people apart from you found him VERY entertaining.”
Woah, you read FAR too much into one post (and got a snide remark in at the same time). Thank you so much for letting me know what the concept of the show is, I had no idea they were supposed to try different things each week. Fancy that.
.I didn't say I didn't find Chris entertaining, I said I didn't find his rather sad attempts at an axel entertaining. Ray always looks like he's having a ball as well, and he is by far the better skater.
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“I have a suspicion Ray's scores are being held back in order to preserve the notion of a competition and stop it looking like he's too far ahead. If he's 5 or 6 full points ahead of the others it doesn't bode well for the rest of them!
Honestly, even his first week routine was better than most of the ones we've ever seen on this show.
He's easily better than who was a powerhouse but no dancer imo.”
“I have a suspicion Ray's scores are being held back in order to preserve the notion of a competition and stop it looking like he's too far ahead. If he's 5 or 6 full points ahead of the others it doesn't bode well for the rest of them!
Honestly, even his first week routine was better than most of the ones we've ever seen on this show.
He's easily better than who was a powerhouse but no dancer imo.”
Great post, I agree. I actually perfer Justin, but Ray is much better than he was, Justin was as you say, more of a power house. I enjoyed his kind of energy more, and his partnership with Frankie. Ellery looks so bland next to Frankie, compared to Justin.
Ray is far better than Chris. He skates with Maria - something Chris failed to do with Frankie. He manages to combine individual skills with a genuine partnership.
Chris was far to much of a show off in a "look at me" sort of way. Also he seemed more intent of showing off his skill at time than actually skating with Frankie last year. That to me was his downfall.
This year cannot really comment when I saw the list of donkeys, and how little training some actually had I gave up. It was obvious some were deliberately included to aid the favourites to get to the final. It's this sort of audience manipulation that has ruined shows like this by deliberately picking no hopers to aid the chances of those the producers want..
I'd much rather see a better selection to actually push the contestants into giving better performances, than the obviously better ones taking it easy for the first few weeks knowing full well that they are unlikely to get booted off.
This year cannot really comment when I saw the list of donkeys, and how little training some actually had I gave up. It was obvious some were deliberately included to aid the favourites to get to the final. It's this sort of audience manipulation that has ruined shows like this by deliberately picking no hopers to aid the chances of those the producers want..
I'd much rather see a better selection to actually push the contestants into giving better performances, than the obviously better ones taking it easy for the first few weeks knowing full well that they are unlikely to get booted off.
Originally Posted by surfie:
“Chris was far to much of a show off in a "look at me" sort of way. Also he seemed more intent of showing off his skill at time than actually skating with Frankie last year. That to me was his downfall.
This year cannot really comment when I saw the list of donkeys, and how little training some actually had I gave up. It was obvious some were deliberately included to aid the favourites to get to the final. It's this sort of audience manipulation that has ruined shows like this by deliberately picking no hopers to aid the chances of those the producers want..
I'd much rather see a better selection to actually push the contestants into giving better performances, than the obviously better ones taking it easy for the first few weeks knowing full well that they are unlikely to get booted off.”
“Chris was far to much of a show off in a "look at me" sort of way. Also he seemed more intent of showing off his skill at time than actually skating with Frankie last year. That to me was his downfall.
This year cannot really comment when I saw the list of donkeys, and how little training some actually had I gave up. It was obvious some were deliberately included to aid the favourites to get to the final. It's this sort of audience manipulation that has ruined shows like this by deliberately picking no hopers to aid the chances of those the producers want..
I'd much rather see a better selection to actually push the contestants into giving better performances, than the obviously better ones taking it easy for the first few weeks knowing full well that they are unlikely to get booted off.”
I agree with that - and I'd go further, I'd have behind the scenes trials, so that no one who is totally hopeless and not going to improve after several weeks training makes it to the actual programme at all.
You're also right about Chris, I think that's what I didn't like about him much, he wasn't only a show off (nothing particularly wrong with that), but he was an individualistic show off, he didn't dance with his partner, she just happened to be on the ice at the same time and was useful to show off his prowess doing lifts.
Ray probably has the edge (pardon the pun) in terms of technical ability but there is not a lot in it, he is also more accomplished presentation wise...BUT I preferred Chris' routines (so far anyway) and the way he put over his performances.
Originally Posted by SliverOfDiamond:
“I agree with that - and I'd go further, I'd have behind the scenes trials, so that no one who is totally hopeless and not going to improve after several weeks training makes it to the actual programme at all.
You're also right about Chris, I think that's what I didn't like about him much, he wasn't only a show off (nothing particularly wrong with that), but he was an individualistic show off, he didn't dance with his partner, she just happened to be on the ice at the same time and was useful to show off his prowess doing lifts.”
“I agree with that - and I'd go further, I'd have behind the scenes trials, so that no one who is totally hopeless and not going to improve after several weeks training makes it to the actual programme at all.
You're also right about Chris, I think that's what I didn't like about him much, he wasn't only a show off (nothing particularly wrong with that), but he was an individualistic show off, he didn't dance with his partner, she just happened to be on the ice at the same time and was useful to show off his prowess doing lifts.”
That's a bit harsh but I see your point. Chris and Frankie didn't have the best connection on the ice; it began stiltedly and didn't improve as much as I thought it would/should. I think this proved Chris's downfall in the end.
I don't think you can say one is better than the other actually..I prefer Chris for his skating style, he's a bit rougher & more 'street' whereas Ray is your typical all out 'camp' ice dancer, he does it how its known to be done..Chris took it to new levels & made it more 'cool'
I was watching the repeat of DOI this morning and I worked out why I can't take to Ray. He basically performs for himself. There's no interaction with his partner at all.
Originally Posted by Sheila36dd:
“I was watching the repeat of DOI this morning and I worked out why I can't take to Ray. He basically performs for himself. There's no interaction with his partner at all.”
“I was watching the repeat of DOI this morning and I worked out why I can't take to Ray. He basically performs for himself. There's no interaction with his partner at all.”
what about his second performance you could not have asked for more interaction between the two of them.
Its funny how alot of people see it and others dont and the judges have not picked up on what you have said maybe it will grow for other people but i find they already have the interaction.
I think the one thing that stand Ray out from many of the male celebs that have been on DOI is that he is so aware of his partner and there is loads of interaction between him and maria particularly week 3 and 5
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“I think the one thing that stand Ray out from many of the male celebs that have been on DOI is that he is so aware of his partner and there is loads of interaction between him and maria particularly week 3 and 5”
“I think the one thing that stand Ray out from many of the male celebs that have been on DOI is that he is so aware of his partner and there is loads of interaction between him and maria particularly week 3 and 5”
Just wanted to agree - its the interaction/connection that makes it so watchable for me.
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