This is the real contest, because in the next Champions' Special or Christmas Special, they will be seen as a head-to-head. Who will get 30.0, or will both of them get 30.0 ? (because the marks by then will be inflated a bit).

And it's the contest of judges' favourite. I reckon the nod will go to Ray because he will be able to do anything Suzanne does but faster.

Both are fantastic, however I much prefer Suzanne. She is wonderful!

Hmmmm...

Ray is technically better, but I have begun to realise that I have a problem with Ray (or T&D) at present.

This time last year Chris and Suzanne had some pretty "iconic" routines to their name... e.g. Fame, Time Warp, Cyr Me a River. All very different, some very atmospheric. I cannot think of a single routine Ray did that's much different to the others. He certainly doesn't have any equivalent to Time Warp/CMAR yet even though he's technically brilliant.

I agree.

I think this may be because they are holding back a bit. I appreciate what you're saying but, quite honestly, Ray doesn't need any iconic routines yet. Chris and Suzanne were in direct competition with each other so T&D had to come up with something special for both of them to maintain this. Ray has no direct competition as yet. I think that when it becomes necessary for Ray to get off a plateau and really make his mark on the competition we may start to see the wow routines.

Suzanne wa good, but I wanted Chris to win last year...

RAY this year for me....

Suzanne V Ray?
Ray...!

Ray for me is so much better than Suzanne, Ray can skate and perform whilst Suzanne is only good at skating. Her performance has always been lacking. It was better in the christmas special.

That's interesting. I think they are matched in performing but Suzanne is weaker at skating.. or rather, at least she was at this stage.

i think skating wise it is harder to judge between males and females because the females can be carried, pushed and pulled around.
Suzanne for me wasn't a great performer, i think prop week Nicky gave her a comment like "To me you looked liked a theatrical star" or something. I saw that and she did but to me that wasn't a compliment because like many dancers/skaters/theatrical stars she just left me feeling cold and she always did from week 1. Thats why i find these shows fascinating because sometimes even in the earlier weeks i'm wondering who the pro and who the celeb is. A lot of pros leave me feeling cold but the celeb brings you into the routine.
Suzanne i felt was very good technically but she just couldn't bring me into the routine.

I agree and Chris was doing a lot of complicated lifts too at this stage. Ray is a better dancer but I would like to see him doing some of the lifts that we have seen past contestants doing.

No contest for me, Ray all the way, Suzanne was good but her routines were helped with all the lifts, Ray is the one doing the lifts. He is so good and a joy to watch.

just watched week performance by Chris which is equivalent to Week 5 on this years DOI and frankly I cant see much more complicated lifts than ray has done maybe one but thats it

I always found Suzanne a great performer - then again I found Rachel Stevens on SCD a great performer and we saw how popular that opinion was! I am a huge huge fan of musical theatre though which is probably where the confilct of opinion between us lies.

I much preferred Tom Chambers on SCD - i knew Rachel was technically the better dancer but she just couldn't sell it. I knew what she was trying to make me feel but i just couldn't feel it whereas Tom sold it and made you feel what he was feeling.

I have to say Rachel's show dance was better but Tom's was phenomenal. If you notice the greats of any discipline are the one's that make you feel what they are feeling e.g. Fred and Ginger, Torvill and Dean.

As you say that is where our difference lies.

Ray is about 20 thousands times better than Suzanne

Chris was better than Suzanne

I'm not a fan of musical theatre, but I still agree with you about Suzanne and Rachel.

Why would the interesting routines wait until Ray "needs" them to stay ahead in the competition?

Suzanne can l beat Ray unless the tour audience start voting on sex or Ray finds something extra to do. She can perform, she's as good a dancer and a better actor. He can move faster and do complicated steps but she can do quite complicated steps herself. Most importantly she can perform a routine that builds somewhere and has wow moments. He isn't going to be able to match Kyran who could do big lifts because he is not strong enough - that just leaves him dancing well or trying to copy Chris by going down the route of moving faster, doing more complicated dance steps still and doing difficult work like spins. That in turn opens him up to errors. Suzanne's perfomances are well within her ability - Ray like Chris is already showing the danger of trying too much or getting over confident.

That may all be even more important on the show too because, unless he can find somewhere to go beyond where he is, he has no story and the routines will start looking the same.Even great can look dull if its been the same great for 10 weeks. Its a difficult choice because he could either stay where he is and use the advantage he has over Chris in dancing ability and looking like part of a partnership or he can follow Chris and look more remote by trying difficult moves on his own. What he probably can't do is match the lifts some girls have been doing since week 3 and any that might come. Markwise he may not have to bother as the girls are running about 3 points behind where Suzanne and Clare were and may not be able to get ahead by the final this year even if Ray only finds a bit more. Public voting wise its a complete mystery what the public vote looks like now or who it will reward for what at the end.

Interestingly despite the judges talking about Ray being the best they have had Kyran and Chris had both got higher marks by week 5 - possibly because they have altered the marking scale but probably as psychosis said there hasn't been a wow performance (or perhaps a really major wow moment?) yet.

Because he only may have one and because they wouldn't want to make him look even more ahead than he is. They desperately need someone to look as if they are racing with him not like he is crossing the line and beginning his victory lap already.

Not sure what the interesting bit will be though - speed, tricks, lifts, choice of music and choreography? - the first 3 all have big risks.

Because anyone who knows anything about shows like this
a) knows that it is difficult for anyone who starts at a high level to show the same improvement as someone who starts lower down (learning curves tend to be an upwards parabola) and
b) knows that the public can get bored of someone who is just consistently good every week. At some stage Ray may well need to wow the public to stay ahead of Zoe and Jessica (even though I reckon it's odds on he'll still be significantly ahead of them in the skill and performance stakes) so it's much better that he doesn't play all his cards too early when he really doesn't need them.

And as far as speculation about what further moves he's capable of goes it's just that - speculation. Nobody knows right now what "wow" moves he can do. He hasn't needed to show them. And I disagree that Suzanne is as good a dancer or a better actor but then that is my prerogative.

You forget that it is week 4 if you compare marks for marks as they had a boy week and a girl week SO taking that into account Chris got 25 Kyran got 26 and Ray 26.5

I have just watched suzanne's "iconic" Fame - never saw it first time round. I thought her final last year was mesmerising and felt she was the worthy winner of last year's comp. Howeever, have to say, her Fame and Eternal flame, do not have the same energy, crispness and excitement for me that Ray's has in comparison. It's Ray for me. There is something he puts into his dancing that others do not seems to in my view.

gosh has this discussion stopped

Ray.

i didn't really get why suzanne was so amazing, i preferred chris last year. suzanne spent a little too much time in the air for me. she was a very good skater but i never got excited watching her, as i did with chris and now with ray.