I think that was meant more to mean to stop the regeneration fully changing the doctor, he then says he used the regeneration to heal himself and put the rest (which would have meant a new body) into the hand.
Its open to interpretation whichever way you look at it, however as moffat has said it counted as a regeneration, then we have to accept it as such.
its different to smiths doctor showing using a little energy to heal rivers wrist, had tennants doctor done something similar then it would have been hard pushed to count as a full regeneration
He mentioned healing himself before siphoning off the energy because he didn't want to change. For me, he didn't change therefore it isn't a proper regeneration.
To stop the energy going all the way, he transferred it to something else meaning he didn't regenerate. Job done. Not sure I can put it clearer than that.
Its like bring Spock back in.star trek three or the very first regeneration, if its done well it'll work.
You could have The War Doctor at the end of the time war full of regrets and guilty, go back to Karn and as them give him infinite incarnations, feeling he has to serve a penance. You could have Hurt regenate into Ecclestone and Smith into Capaldi simultaneously and say it caused an anomaly in his time stream
Oh I like that very good just very good:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
He mentioned healing himself before siphoning off the energy because he didn't want to change. For me, he didn't change therefore it isn't a proper regeneration.
To stop the energy going all the way, he transferred it to something else meaning he didn't regenerate. Job done. Not sure I can put it clearer than that.
Except he still used up the same regeneration energy he would have for a full-on regeneration, he just siphoned off the stuff he didn't need after he was healed into something else, it was still used up. He didn't stop the process/cycle from physically happening, he just diverted the results away from him so they didn't affect him.
The McGann/Hurt regeneration is the earliest "explosion of gold" regeneration, and all those that we have seen since have looked the same. Maybe this is also a gift of the Sisterhood, as Kent says.
This is my thought too. Post-elixir regenerations are different, so my guess is that the Sisterhood have gifted him a new set of 12 regenerations - a clean slate, as it were.
Somewhere in the back of my mind - I haven't seen this since it was aired more years ago that I like to remember - didn't the Master run out of regenerations and became a twisted thing in a hooded cloak until he stole the elixir from the sisters? Clearly the elixir gave him more than one extra regeneration.
Moffat lies. Moffat saying that the regeneration limit still exists doesn't mean that that will end up being the case. Until it's established within the show itself (and even then it can be retconned), we don't know for sure.
I agree with your analysis and the whole premise of the Doctor's death on Trenzalore suggests that he has run out of regenerations. The key point is that Moffatt has gone on and on about how the 50th will set up the next fifty years of Dr. Who and I would have thought the obvious implication is that he is establishing the basis for a whole new cycle of regenerations.
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The above is it, exactly what I think, in his time stream he dies at trenzelore, there was no capaldi doctor within his timestream only the incarnations between hartnell and smith. something has to happen to change that allegedly fixed point and give the doctor a new life cycle...but what?
I've not watched it recently so may be wrong but didn't he say that he filtered the rest of the regeneration energy into his hand which is why the regeneration only healed him.
If he did that would mean he did use a full regeneration cycle, just not all within his own body.
Except he still used up the same regeneration energy he would have for a full-on regeneration, he just siphoned off the stuff he didn't need after he was healed into something else, it was still used up. He didn't stop the process/cycle from physically happening, he just diverted the results away from him so they didn't affect him.
exactly how I see it just my opinion but he used a regeneration to stop his death, he doesn't get to bottle that energy again, it isn't so much as the metacrisis doctor that is the incarnation but ten himself it was in effect a new body to stop him dying, he just figured out a way to keep it the same
This is my thought too. Post-elixir regenerations are different, so my guess is that the Sisterhood have gifted him a new set of 12 regenerations - a clean slate, as it were.
That wouldn't explain how River's and the master's regenerations are the same, I think it's just they decided to create a regen effect but can't retcon it.
exactly how I see it just my opinion but he used a regeneration to stop his death, he doesn't get to bottle that energy again, it isn't so much as the metacrisis doctor that is the incarnation but ten himself it was in effect a new body to stop him dying, he just figured out a way to keep it the same
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My point is this.
There was a genuine regeneration cycle beginning. A genuine need to regenerate. The Doctor was very much resigned to this happening and it looked for all the world like the Doctor was going to change.
Except normally, a Time Lord doesn't a bit of his own energy to pour it into. So he has nothing to alter the process and the energy is used the way it should be. My point is at most half a regeneration was used hence the term 10.5 for the Doctor clone. The Doctor's quick thinking found a way to "stop the energy going all the way" Stop the natural process of regeneration. A full regeneration cycle was not completed which is why he didn't change.
Let me also put it like this, was the human clone of the Doctor any bit as much a Doctor as Hurt's Warrior?
That wouldn't explain how River's and the master's regenerations are the same, I think it's just they decided to create a regen effect but can't retcon it.[/QUOTE]
Not River's - I agree, but the Master also drank the elixir.
Meta crisis doctor dosn't count as a regeneration.
who says?
I can see no reason why it doesn't, infact it makes more sense from a dramatic point of view for it to count, it helps move things along so SM can tell the story of how the doctor breaks the rules and gets more lives.
I always thought that perhaps the 12 regeneration's was actually a law rather than a biological limit. It was illegal for Time Lords to regenerate over 12 times (to stop Gallifrey getting over populated.) If they tried to regenerate over the legal limit, they became that monster thing that the Master became. But now the Time Lords are gone, perhaps the Doctor can regenerate as much as he wants?
Just an idea. It's what I'd do if I was the writer.
The McGann/Hurt regeneration is the earliest "explosion of gold" regeneration, and all those that we have seen since have looked the same. Maybe this is also a gift of the Sisterhood, as Kent says.
I think we're just meant to pretend that regeneration has always looked like that. The Master and River both regenerated in the golden light as well as the Doctor.
I think we're just meant to pretend that regeneration has always looked like that. The Master and River both regenerated in the golden light as well as the Doctor.
Exactly, they have even said this. That they wanted all regenerations to look the same, rather then each be different, depending on the director at the times artistic vision
I always thought that perhaps the 12 regeneration's was actually a law rather than a biological limit. It was illegal for Time Lords to regenerate over 12 times (to stop Gallifrey getting over populated.) If they tried to regenerate over the legal limit, they became that monster thing that the Master became. But now the Time Lords are gone, perhaps the Doctor can regenerate as much as he wants?
Just an idea. It's what I'd do if I was the writer.
It's difficult to say for sure. Both the Master and the Valeyard planned to take the Doctor's remaining regenerations. Which suggests the Doctor had a finite amount of regeneration energy.
However, the Time Lords did offer the Master a new life cycle and eventually granted him one. Which suggests there was some way to ration regeneration energy.
Is the regeneration limit not 13 rather than 12? This would mean that if The War Doctor counts, Capaldi's Doctor would be the thirteenth incarnation of the Time Lord so the problem of resolving this regeneration limit won't need to be dealt with until he decides to leave.
Is the regeneration limit not 13 rather than 12? This would mean that if The War Doctor counts, Capaldi's Doctor would be the thirteenth incarnation of the Time Lord so the problem of resolving this regeneration limit won't need to be dealt with until he decides to leave.
12 regenerations = 13 incarnations
7-8 is the seventh regeneration
8-War Doctor is the eighth
War Doctor-9 is presumably the ninth
9-10 is the tenth
Metacrisis is the eleventh
10-11 would therefore be the Doctor's twelfth and final regeneration
7-8 is the seventh regeneration
8-War Doctor is the eighth
War Doctor-9 is presumably the ninth
9-10 is the tenth
Metacrisis is the eleventh
10-11 would therefore be the Doctor's twelfth and final regeneration
How then would you explain 11 starting to regenerate at Silencio?
Nobody knows how regeneration works, or whether regeneration energy is some kind of fixed quantity, or how regenerations are counted. Nobody knows, not even the writers - until they decide on how they want to handle it.
It is limited by a fixed reservoir of regeneration energy? In which case the meta-crisis Doctor counts as one? Or is it that the cells of his body can only handle being re-written a certain number of times before they degrade irreparably? In which case, the meta-Doctor doesn't count.
How then would you explain 11 starting to regenerate at Silencio?
That was a fake regeneration, a light show put on by the Tesselecta.
As to why the Doctor programmed the Tesselecta to do it, maybe he's lost count (or disregards the Meta Crisis) and thinks he still has another regeneration to go.
That was a fake regeneration, a light show put on by the Tesselecta.
As to why the Doctor programmed the Tesselecta to do it, maybe he's lost count (or disregards the Meta Crisis) and thinks he still has another regeneration to go.
Good call.
Either way, the light show was realistic to put anyone off and make it seem real to those watching.
Even River who could have said "Actually, guys don't panic, that wasn't the Doctor it's a fake but shhh. Spoilers".
Comments
He mentioned healing himself before siphoning off the energy because he didn't want to change. For me, he didn't change therefore it isn't a proper regeneration.
To stop the energy going all the way, he transferred it to something else meaning he didn't regenerate. Job done. Not sure I can put it clearer than that.
Oh I like that very good just very good:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Except he still used up the same regeneration energy he would have for a full-on regeneration, he just siphoned off the stuff he didn't need after he was healed into something else, it was still used up. He didn't stop the process/cycle from physically happening, he just diverted the results away from him so they didn't affect him.
This is my thought too. Post-elixir regenerations are different, so my guess is that the Sisterhood have gifted him a new set of 12 regenerations - a clean slate, as it were.
Somewhere in the back of my mind - I haven't seen this since it was aired more years ago that I like to remember - didn't the Master run out of regenerations and became a twisted thing in a hooded cloak until he stole the elixir from the sisters? Clearly the elixir gave him more than one extra regeneration.
The above is it, exactly what I think, in his time stream he dies at trenzelore, there was no capaldi doctor within his timestream only the incarnations between hartnell and smith. something has to happen to change that allegedly fixed point and give the doctor a new life cycle...but what?
haven't seen that anywhere, but also he lies...a lot
exactly how I see it just my opinion but he used a regeneration to stop his death, he doesn't get to bottle that energy again, it isn't so much as the metacrisis doctor that is the incarnation but ten himself it was in effect a new body to stop him dying, he just figured out a way to keep it the same
That wouldn't explain how River's and the master's regenerations are the same, I think it's just they decided to create a regen effect but can't retcon it.
My point is this.
There was a genuine regeneration cycle beginning. A genuine need to regenerate. The Doctor was very much resigned to this happening and it looked for all the world like the Doctor was going to change.
Except normally, a Time Lord doesn't a bit of his own energy to pour it into. So he has nothing to alter the process and the energy is used the way it should be. My point is at most half a regeneration was used hence the term 10.5 for the Doctor clone. The Doctor's quick thinking found a way to "stop the energy going all the way" Stop the natural process of regeneration. A full regeneration cycle was not completed which is why he didn't change.
Let me also put it like this, was the human clone of the Doctor any bit as much a Doctor as Hurt's Warrior?
Not River's - I agree, but the Master also drank the elixir.
who says?
I can see no reason why it doesn't, infact it makes more sense from a dramatic point of view for it to count, it helps move things along so SM can tell the story of how the doctor breaks the rules and gets more lives.
Just an idea. It's what I'd do if I was the writer.
I think we're just meant to pretend that regeneration has always looked like that. The Master and River both regenerated in the golden light as well as the Doctor.
Exactly, they have even said this. That they wanted all regenerations to look the same, rather then each be different, depending on the director at the times artistic vision
However, the Time Lords did offer the Master a new life cycle and eventually granted him one. Which suggests there was some way to ration regeneration energy.
12 regenerations = 13 incarnations
7-8 is the seventh regeneration
8-War Doctor is the eighth
War Doctor-9 is presumably the ninth
9-10 is the tenth
Metacrisis is the eleventh
10-11 would therefore be the Doctor's twelfth and final regeneration
How then would you explain 11 starting to regenerate at Silencio?
It is limited by a fixed reservoir of regeneration energy? In which case the meta-crisis Doctor counts as one? Or is it that the cells of his body can only handle being re-written a certain number of times before they degrade irreparably? In which case, the meta-Doctor doesn't count.
Or is it more complicated than that?
That was a fake regeneration, a light show put on by the Tesselecta.
As to why the Doctor programmed the Tesselecta to do it, maybe he's lost count (or disregards the Meta Crisis) and thinks he still has another regeneration to go.
Good call.
Either way, the light show was realistic to put anyone off and make it seem real to those watching.
Even River who could have said "Actually, guys don't panic, that wasn't the Doctor it's a fake but shhh. Spoilers".
Doctorhttp://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-11-15/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-up-confusion-around-the-number-of-john-hurts-doctor.