The same with Diana. Didn't they open up her chest and massage it by hand?
What would the quality of life have been like if these people did actually respond to medical treatment? Surely they would have been in vegetative states, so maybe it was better that they did die.
I think they would have been desperate to have revived him so they could claim the glory of having revived Michael Jackson. It's just the way the world works, really. I highly doubt they would have tried so hard to keep the average person alive the way they tried to with Michael.
I think they would have been desperate to have revived him so they could claim the glory of having revived Michael Jackson. It's just the way the world works, really. I highly doubt they would have tried so hard to keep the average person alive the way they tried to with Michael.
I don't know if you meant it to sound that way, but that's actually quite insulting to medical professionals.
I'm a nurse and have attended cardiac emergencies, to which none were placed on a board.
Policies change from one health authority to another. I used to work in the same health authority as Granny Weatherwax and cardiac boards were there in most of the wards and departments I saw.
Resus. procedures also undergo constant revision and the procedure algorithms are changed from time to time. Even things like the ratio of chest compressions to breaths has changed a few times in my own working career.
Last time I did CPR training, I was told that a good way of giving the correct number of compressions was to sing Mahri's Wedding to myself whilst doing it.
My wife died in January, her heart just stopped (didnt know this at the time) I rang 999 and they told me what to do cpr wise, paramedic turns up 5 minutes later and then an ambulance, they must have spent at least 45 minutes doing cpr and whatnot before they took her to the hospital, I was very immpressed with them they could have done no more if she was famous.
I witnessed a motorcycle crash about 4 weeks ago from my office window, some people walking by performed cpr as guided by the paramedics on the phone and when they turned up 25 minutes later they performed it for another 30 minutes, so I would presume this is common practice.
I'm a nurse and have attended cardiac emergencies, to which none were placed on a board.
I am a cardiology nurse. No boards in our department either, p'rhaps we are doing it wrong?????:rolleyes:
Edit: There is no way that a patient that had arrested and was still flatlining (asystolic) after an hour of resus attempt would ever survive *. They are already dead!
*(unless its the rare case where someone has drowned in very cold temperstures and the body has 'hibernated')
I am a cardiology nurse. No boards in our department either, p'rhaps we are doing it wrong?????:rolleyes:
I would say, for your average Jo/e (don't want to be unPC ), doing CPR on the floor is probably better as beds at home tend to be softer than hospital beds. It's different when you're medically trained, like yourself. However, as someone else said, people often stop breathing in the most inconvenient of places!
I would say, for your average Jo/e (don't want to be unPC ), doing CPR on the floor is probably better as beds at home tend to be softer than hospital beds. It's different when you're medically trained, like yourself. However, as someone else said, people often stop breathing in the most inconvenient of places!
I would in no way advocate doing CPR on any bed outside of hospital.
There is also more than one 'type' of cardiac arrest and many causes of cardiac arrest which would warrant attempting to resuscitate for differing lengths of time. And its easier if you know the cause of arrest, and can reverse the cause.
If a heart is showing some electrical activity of its own, however haphazard there is more chance that it can be restarted. But if the heart shows no electrical activity at all over a period of time(flat lining), the chance of resuscitating the patient are very very slim and getting less with every minute.
I think they would have been desperate to have revived him so they could claim the glory of having revived Michael Jackson. It's just the way the world works, really. I highly doubt they would have tried so hard to keep the average person alive the way they tried to with Michael.
What do you base this opinion on, have you worked in Cedars-Sinai or somewhere similar where you've see the treatment of the famous alongside the not so famous?
Don't want to get caught up in the specifics of the MJ case.
I'm not reading page after page of media speculation.
I still find it rather odd, even for DS! that people (those who aren't working in cardio) are kinda saying they know more about CPR than the doc who was already with MJ before the 911 call.
What do you base this opinion on, have you worked in Cedars-Sinai or somewhere similar where you've see the treatment of the famous alongside the not so famous?
Don't want to get caught up in the specifics of the MJ case.
I'm not reading page after page of media speculation.
Why do some forum members ask the most ridiculous questions? I'm assuming that.
I still find it rather odd, even for DS! that people (those who aren't working in cardio) are kinda saying they know more about CPR than the doc who was already with MJ before the 911 call.
He is a cardiologist.
The doc may have been a cardiologist, but without the proper equipment and drugs, he would have been not much more help to MJ than a proficient first aider! In fact a proficient first aider would have called for an ambulance WAY before the doc did, to summon help from staff who perform resus on a very regular basis.
It appears he used lidocaine in the resus attempt, which is a drug that has been superceded by more effective ones in cases of cardiac arrest.
The doc may have been a cardiologist, but without the proper equipment and drugs, he would have been not much more help to MJ than a proficient first aider! In fact a proficient first aider would have called for an ambulance WAY before the doc did, to summon help from staff who perform resus on a very regular basis.
It appears he used lidocaine in the resus attempt, which is a drug that has been superceded by more effective ones in cases of cardiac arrest.
Ah, thanks for that. But he would surely have known not to pump on a very soft bed??
Ah, thanks for that. But he would surely have known not to pump on a very soft bed??
If the patient was on a soft bed, they would be bouncing up and down under proper resus attempt!:eek:
(Just think sex and a bouncy bed, and the difference between that and the kitchen floor!;)):D Sorry to be graphic but you get the gist!
The LA Fire Department has released the emergency-call and at no point do they say that "we have Michael Jackson here going to die" but all the time referred to a "50-year old male" or as "him".
The LA Fire Department has released the emergency-call and at no point do they say that "we have Michael Jackson here going to die" but all the time referred to a "50-year old male" or as "him".
If the patient was on a soft bed, they would be bouncing up and down under proper resus attempt!:eek:
(Just think sex and a bouncy bed, and the difference between that and the kitchen floor!;)):D Sorry to be graphic but you get the gist!
Why do some forum members ask the most ridiculous questions? I'm assuming that.
Reading between the lines that's a no then.
A simple no would suffice.
I'll try and ignore you assuming a question.
I'll go back to reading the posts from FM's who base their opinions on facts or previous experience of the medical field.
Is it true that for CPR to work you have to do it so hard that often the patient's ribs are broken?
Sorry if it's a completely ridiculous question, but i'm sure that i read somewhere the opinion of a medical person who said it wasn't worthwhile for an ordinary, unqualified person to try and attempt CPR as they would never perform it vigorously enough and i've always wondered if this was correct.
Comments
Most peoples beds are not suitable to perform CPR on.
I've recently done a first aid course and one of the first things we were taught about CPR was to move them off the bed before starting compressions.
I'm a nurse and have attended cardiac emergencies, to which none were placed on a board.
sounds like bulking and fodder for the tabloids like much else in this media circus
I think they would have been desperate to have revived him so they could claim the glory of having revived Michael Jackson. It's just the way the world works, really. I highly doubt they would have tried so hard to keep the average person alive the way they tried to with Michael.
I don't know if you meant it to sound that way, but that's actually quite insulting to medical professionals.
Policies change from one health authority to another. I used to work in the same health authority as Granny Weatherwax and cardiac boards were there in most of the wards and departments I saw.
Resus. procedures also undergo constant revision and the procedure algorithms are changed from time to time. Even things like the ratio of chest compressions to breaths has changed a few times in my own working career.
Last time I did CPR training, I was told that a good way of giving the correct number of compressions was to sing Mahri's Wedding to myself whilst doing it.
I am a cardiology nurse. No boards in our department either, p'rhaps we are doing it wrong?????:rolleyes:
Edit: There is no way that a patient that had arrested and was still flatlining (asystolic) after an hour of resus attempt would ever survive *. They are already dead!
*(unless its the rare case where someone has drowned in very cold temperstures and the body has 'hibernated')
Don't care. That's what I think.
I would say, for your average Jo/e (don't want to be unPC
I would in no way advocate doing CPR on any bed outside of hospital.
There is also more than one 'type' of cardiac arrest and many causes of cardiac arrest which would warrant attempting to resuscitate for differing lengths of time. And its easier if you know the cause of arrest, and can reverse the cause.
If a heart is showing some electrical activity of its own, however haphazard there is more chance that it can be restarted. But if the heart shows no electrical activity at all over a period of time(flat lining), the chance of resuscitating the patient are very very slim and getting less with every minute.
What do you base this opinion on, have you worked in Cedars-Sinai or somewhere similar where you've see the treatment of the famous alongside the not so famous?
Don't want to get caught up in the specifics of the MJ case.
I'm not reading page after page of media speculation.
He is a cardiologist.
Why do some forum members ask the most ridiculous questions? I'm assuming that.
The doc may have been a cardiologist, but without the proper equipment and drugs, he would have been not much more help to MJ than a proficient first aider! In fact a proficient first aider would have called for an ambulance WAY before the doc did, to summon help from staff who perform resus on a very regular basis.
It appears he used lidocaine in the resus attempt, which is a drug that has been superceded by more effective ones in cases of cardiac arrest.
Ah, thanks for that. But he would surely have known not to pump on a very soft bed??
If the patient was on a soft bed, they would be bouncing up and down under proper resus attempt!:eek:
(Just think sex and a bouncy bed, and the difference between that and the kitchen floor!;)):D Sorry to be graphic but you get the gist!
Whoever made that call appeared to be VERY calm.
Ha! I know which I'd prefer
Reading between the lines that's a no then.
A simple no would suffice.
I'll try and ignore you assuming a question.
I'll go back to reading the posts from FM's who base their opinions on facts or previous experience of the medical field.
Sorry if it's a completely ridiculous question, but i'm sure that i read somewhere the opinion of a medical person who said it wasn't worthwhile for an ordinary, unqualified person to try and attempt CPR as they would never perform it vigorously enough and i've always wondered if this was correct.