I've no idea where your theory of school bullies etc comes from
I've also no idea why you think such incidents are more prevalent. How many arrests take place everyday, without any such problems? The vast majority is the answer.
The Police attract recruits from all walks of life, and there is no one specific kind of person that joins, and certainly not the type you describe.
Over reactions during arrests do sometimes happen, and they always have, and probably more so in the past than now.
The difference now is that people are filming incidents, and we often only see selected parts of what went on, but people will judge on what is seen.
When you are dealing with the worst type of people all of the time, it can sometimes result in taking things a little too far. Fortunately, that is rare, and Officers deal with these idiots in accordance with their training.
DP,
I think that the post from Bom Diddly Wo is a good example of people with little or no knowledge of the modern day policing over reacting following the media reporting on an incident. Sadly this appears to happen often, although thankfully not by everyone.
I would hope that the majority of the users here would be able to see that there's nothing wrong with the current recruitment or training of the police.
Of course. You soon realise what types they are when they start behaving like obnoxious yobs.
how do you dtect if a recruit has pre conceived ideas
or might be prone to violence like the obnoxious yobs
you get to learn about ,
it might also be aplicable that the same theory aplies to police officers that aplies to the yobs who both for the majority of time behave relatively ok until provoked by whatebver pushes the buttons the difference being the police officer is supposedley trained and paid not to
react yobbish .
But it wasn't a mobile, it appears to be a full television production camera, judging by the quality of the footage. One has to question the officer's judgement and intelligence on that one.
The TV camera was there because of the fire in the Sugar Hut, the bloke in the video was becoming obnoxious in a nearby bar, the manager asked the police who were already there to remove him, then he kicked off etc, though quite why they had to gas him like that I just don't understand.
The first reaction is to wipe your eyes, which he couldn't, the camera pulls back to show his shouty friend/girlfriend wading in, who soon gets bound hand and foot along with, it seems, another girl who was passing by.
I've got no time for he yob involved, nor do I have time for yob police, what will happen when they all get tasers?
The TV camera was there because of the fire in the Sugar Hut, the bloke in the video was becoming obnoxious in a nearby bar, the manager asked the police who were already there to remove him, then he kicked off etc, though quite why they had to gas him like that I just don't understand.
The first reaction is to wipe your eyes, which he couldn't, the camera pulls back to show his shouty friend/girlfriend wading in, who soon gets bound hand and foot along with, it seems, another girl who was passing by.
I've got no time for he yob involved, nor do I have time for yob police, what will happen when they all get tasers?
So what do you suggest the police do when someone is "kicking off" - shrug their shoulders and go back to the station and let them get on with it?
how do you dtect if a recruit has pre conceived ideas
or might be prone to violence like the obnoxious yobs
you get to learn about ,
it might also be aplicable that the same theory aplies to police officers that aplies to the yobs who both for the majority of time behave relatively ok until provoked by whatebver pushes the buttons the difference being the police officer is supposedley trained and paid not to
react yobbish .
The methods used to weed out unacceptable recruits are pretty good, and it takes a great deal of hard work, and dedication to get to the point where you are allowed to patrol alone. Thugs, intent on using their position to behave in that way would not make it.
What pushes the button for most of these yobs is alcohol, and drugs. Hopefully Police Officers do not report for duty in the state most of those we are talking about, are in.
The TV camera was there because of the fire in the Sugar Hut, the bloke in the video was becoming obnoxious in a nearby bar, the manager asked the police who were already there to remove him, then he kicked off etc, though quite why they had to gas him like that I just don't understand.
The first reaction is to wipe your eyes, which he couldn't, the camera pulls back to show his shouty friend/girlfriend wading in, who soon gets bound hand and foot along with, it seems, another girl who was passing by.
I've got no time for he yob involved, nor do I have time for yob police, what will happen when they all get tasers?
I would say the same that happens now we all carry CS!
If you're trying to suggest on the back of this that the routine arming of Taser would be a bad idea then I strongly disagree.
I carry CS, as well as other 'weaponry' on a daily basis when working. I've never once used my CS spray in a live situation, despite having all sorts of weapons pulled on me including knives, machetes, samurai swords (why do people keep these at home????), several firearms, plenty of glass bottles and many others. The same can be said for many of my colleagues too and we work in one of the busiest, and most violent, divisions in the whole of England and Wales.
Every police officer who works on 'the front line' carries CS or PAVA spray. Incidents where allegations such as the one being made here are not common and when you consider that there are many thousands of police officers in the country (there are over 30,000 in the Met alone!) and consider how many incidents they attend each day there's certainly no issue with the carrying of CS or PAVA sprays and there's no warning signs in relation to the carrying of Taser by all front line officers either.
The methods used to weed out unacceptable recruits are pretty good, and it takes a great deal of hard work, and dedication to get to the point where you are allowed to patrol alone. Thugs, intent on using their position to behave in that way would not make it.
What pushes the button for most of these yobs is alcohol, and drugs. Hopefully Police Officers do not report for duty in the state most of those we are talking about, are in.
so what do you blame for pushing the buttons of officers recentley involved in brutality claims ,
i dont think any evaluation of a persons reactions to
real situations can be full proof if done under controlled circumstances therefore its possibly more of a worry that sober straight evaluated men/women can resort to violence
than a person under the influence of alchohol or drugs
or of a bad nature .
. I've never once used my CS spray in a live situation, despite having all sorts of weapons pulled on me including knives, machetes, samurai swords (why do people keep these at home????),
QUOTE]
Funny you should say that. The only time I ever used my CS was when attending a domestic, and the bloke whipped one of those swords off the wall, and went for me with it.
The methods used to weed out unacceptable recruits are pretty good,
I totally agree. Most forces take at least 12 months to even start the initial training from the day of your first application, some take longer. There's a hell of a lot going on with each application, including a lot of tests on the individual, before they get appointed as a police officer. Any signs of an undesirable quality and you're instantly failed, no questions asked.
and it takes a great deal of hard work, and dedication to get to the point where you are allowed to patrol alone.
You get 10 weeks after your 6 months initial training in which to prove you are suitable to be signed off as suitable for independent patrol. If you fail to do that your 'tutor phase' where you're with a qualified officer assessing and guiding you will be extended. If you continue to fail to meet the required standards you'll face the regulation 13 process and be out of the job if things don't pick up.
Thugs, intent on using their position to behave in that way would not make it.
The professional standards teams employed by all forces come down extremely hard on anyone doing as DP suggests and the job very quickly gets rid of anyone who acts in the above manner.
What pushes the button for most of these yobs is alcohol, and drugs. Hopefully Police Officers do not report for duty in the state most of those we are talking about, are in.
Everyone can have their buttons pressed, however police officers are expected to control their emotions and deal with situations professionally and properly. Even when off duty there's the code of conduct to be followed and on the whole there's not normally any problems at all.
if we consider the possiblity that those applying for the police service may be able to
disguise yobbish or low threshold of anger and violence behavural problems to get the job we must consider why the force closes ranks and deffends the actions of these officers ,its rare to watch one of these police videos and see other officers stepping in to say enough is enough for example .
Funny you should say that. The only time I ever used my CS was when attending a domestic, and the bloke whipped one of those swords off the wall, and went for me with it.
Yeah, I hate those swords and all ornamental blades, they also seem to be the first thing that people go for when they want to have a pop at a cop. People are often surprised when I tell them I've been attacked by yet another person armed with a samurai sword, but it's sadly very common these days. Why on Earth can't these things be banned?
so what do you blame for pushing the buttons of officers recentley involved in brutality claims ,
i dont think any evaluation of a persons reactions to
real situations can be full proof if done under controlled circumstances therefore its possibly more of a worry that sober straight evaluated men/women can resort to violence
than a person under the influence of alchohol or drugs
or of a bad nature .
Considering the number of violent incidents, and arrests attended every single day, these claims of brutality are very rare, and in many of the complaints, the force used is justified.
Every so often someone will react more forcefully than they should, and that is normally down to human reaction to provocation, often over a long period of time.
One of my colleagues actually retired because he couldn't cope with it anymore. The build up, over years left him fearing he would inflict serious harm on someone. This was identified, and he had all manner of help, before leaving. Thankfully he never used unlawful force, but his very last incident was close. He saw the signs, and just walked away from the incident, because he wanted to beat a drunken yob to a pulp.
I've no idea where your theory of school bullies etc comes from
I've also no idea why you think such incidents are more prevalent. How many arrests take place everyday, without any such problems? The vast majority is the answer.
The Police attract recruits from all walks of life, and there is no one specific kind of person that joins, and certainly not the type you describe.
Over reactions during arrests do sometimes happen, and they always have, and probably more so in the past than now.
The difference now is that people are filming incidents, and we often only see selected parts of what went on, but people will judge on what is seen.
When you are dealing with the worst type of people all of the time, it can sometimes result in taking things a little too far. Fortunately, that is rare, and Officers deal with these idiots in accordance with their training.
I did stress that my school bulies theory was entirely my point of view and in no way a matter of fact.
The case remains though that this sort of thing is in no way unusual. I understand that the police are under stress and are sometimes dealing with the very worst of society which is exactly why I think a complete review of training and recruitment should be undertaken. It seem like this behaviour is systematic and some police officers are doing it without caring who may be watching or recording. One explaination for this could well be that they know nothing will happen to them if they are seen and reported.
You make the argument that there are a lot more cameras around now and so are bound to catch more icidents like this and that is true. What worries me is that these incidents are caught in public where the officers must be aware on some level that they are open to public scrutiny yet in these cases are not detered. Also I worry what the officers who are prone to act like this will do when they are confident that they are not being watched or recorded.
Considering the number of violent incidents, and arrests attended every single day, these claims of brutality are very rare, and in many of the complaints, the force used is justified.
Every so often someone will react more forcefully than they should, and that is normally down to human reaction to provocation, often over a long period of time.
One of my colleagues actually retired because he couldn't cope with it anymore. The build up, over years left him fearing he would inflict serious harm on someone. This was identified, and he had all manner of help, before leaving. Thankfully he never used unlawful force, but his very last incident was close. He saw the signs, and just walked away from the incident, because he wanted to beat a drunken yob to a pulp.
the major incidents of police brutality like g20 this video are
fairly uncommon but theres a lot more less violent headline stuff and the arrogant attitude of some officers that can inflame a person in a relatively minor incident to create a major one
why then is it deemed that the public can be "yobs " when drunk stoned etc and sober police cant when theres no reason to suggest they are immune from bad behavior
only the other week the officer in charge of traffic up here was caught and lost his licence for reckless driving ironically
but at no time was he reffered to as a yob .
Considering the number of violent incidents, and arrests attended every single day, these claims of brutality are very rare, and in many of the complaints, the force used is justified.
The way I see it is if a situation has got to the point where the pub/club security can't handle it and the police have to be called then its quite obvious that all "diplomatic" attempts to sort the thug out have failed and the only option is to use a degree of force.
The vast majority of drunken yobbos are dealt with quite effectively by in-house security and go on their merry way. It is the 1% who persist in acting like arses, that pay no heed to all the previous attempts to calm things down, who are getting very violent themselves that the police are called out on.
I did stress that my school bulies theory was entirely my point of view and in no way a matter of fact.
The case remains though that this sort of thing is in no way unusual. I understand that the police are under stress and are sometimes dealing with the very worst of society which is exactly why I think a complete review of training and recruitment should be undertaken. It seem like this behaviour is systematic and some police officers are doing it without caring who may be watching or recording. One explaination for this could well be that they know nothing will happen to them if they are seen and reported.
You make the argument that there are a lot more cameras around now and so are bound to catch more icidents like this and that is true. What worries me is that these incidents are caught in public where the officers must be aware on some level that they are open to public scrutiny yet in these cases are not detered. Also I worry what the officers who are prone to act like this will do when they are confident that they are not being watched or recorded.
im a bit wary of people seeking jobs in which they control the public myself , ok i accept that the alternative of a lawless or vigilante society is far worse prospect but i just
cant help feeling uneasy when something like this happens and theres a wall comes up or so it seems .
I think that the post from Bom Diddly Wo is a good example of people with little or no knowledge of the modern day policing over reacting following the media reporting on an incident. Sadly this appears to happen often, although thankfully not by everyone.
I would hope that the majority of the users here would be able to see that there's nothing wrong with the current recruitment or training of the police.
It is true that I do not have a great deal of knowledge about training and recruitment procedures. Perhaps you could sugest where changes need to be made so that we stop seein images of police officers behaving in such a way. In this case at the very least contrary to guidlines about using the spray and at G20 in ways that could well be deemed ileagal. If it is not the training at fault where is the problem?
He was perfectly under control. All they were doing was risking antagonising other people in the crowd who might have seen them do this which can only be a bad thing when what is needed is calm.
Which is apparently what happened. This is why the young lady was screaming at the officers to leave him alone. An understandable reaction to seeing a friend being unnecessarily assaulted by police officers.
I would be very interested to know how he sustained the injuries he had.
The way I see it is if a situation has got to the point where the pub/club security can't handle it and the police have to be called then its quite obvious that all "diplomatic" attempts to sort the thug out have failed and the only option is to use a degree of force.
The vast majority of drunken yobbos are dealt with quite effectively by in-house security and go on their merry way. It is the 1% who persist in acting like arses, that pay no heed to all the previous attempts to calm things down, who are getting very violent themselves that the police are called out on.
pub/club doormen the worlds greatest diplomats :D:D
omg have you ever spoke to one
Comments
Of course. You soon realise what types they are when they start behaving like obnoxious yobs.
I think that the post from Bom Diddly Wo is a good example of people with little or no knowledge of the modern day policing over reacting following the media reporting on an incident. Sadly this appears to happen often, although thankfully not by everyone.
I would hope that the majority of the users here would be able to see that there's nothing wrong with the current recruitment or training of the police.
how do you dtect if a recruit has pre conceived ideas
or might be prone to violence like the obnoxious yobs
you get to learn about ,
it might also be aplicable that the same theory aplies to police officers that aplies to the yobs who both for the majority of time behave relatively ok until provoked by whatebver pushes the buttons the difference being the police officer is supposedley trained and paid not to
react yobbish .
The TV camera was there because of the fire in the Sugar Hut, the bloke in the video was becoming obnoxious in a nearby bar, the manager asked the police who were already there to remove him, then he kicked off etc, though quite why they had to gas him like that I just don't understand.
The first reaction is to wipe your eyes, which he couldn't, the camera pulls back to show his shouty friend/girlfriend wading in, who soon gets bound hand and foot along with, it seems, another girl who was passing by.
I've got no time for he yob involved, nor do I have time for yob police, what will happen when they all get tasers?
So what do you suggest the police do when someone is "kicking off" - shrug their shoulders and go back to the station and let them get on with it?
The methods used to weed out unacceptable recruits are pretty good, and it takes a great deal of hard work, and dedication to get to the point where you are allowed to patrol alone. Thugs, intent on using their position to behave in that way would not make it.
What pushes the button for most of these yobs is alcohol, and drugs. Hopefully Police Officers do not report for duty in the state most of those we are talking about, are in.
If you're trying to suggest on the back of this that the routine arming of Taser would be a bad idea then I strongly disagree.
I carry CS, as well as other 'weaponry' on a daily basis when working. I've never once used my CS spray in a live situation, despite having all sorts of weapons pulled on me including knives, machetes, samurai swords (why do people keep these at home????), several firearms, plenty of glass bottles and many others. The same can be said for many of my colleagues too and we work in one of the busiest, and most violent, divisions in the whole of England and Wales.
Every police officer who works on 'the front line' carries CS or PAVA spray. Incidents where allegations such as the one being made here are not common and when you consider that there are many thousands of police officers in the country (there are over 30,000 in the Met alone!) and consider how many incidents they attend each day there's certainly no issue with the carrying of CS or PAVA sprays and there's no warning signs in relation to the carrying of Taser by all front line officers either.
so what do you blame for pushing the buttons of officers recentley involved in brutality claims ,
i dont think any evaluation of a persons reactions to
real situations can be full proof if done under controlled circumstances therefore its possibly more of a worry that sober straight evaluated men/women can resort to violence
than a person under the influence of alchohol or drugs
or of a bad nature .
A Police Officer is expected to file a full written account everytime they deploy their CS.
We might just as well ask what kind of morons get into a fight with the Police when they are trying to disperse them for their own safety.
Alas that its easier just to hate the Police.
You get 10 weeks after your 6 months initial training in which to prove you are suitable to be signed off as suitable for independent patrol. If you fail to do that your 'tutor phase' where you're with a qualified officer assessing and guiding you will be extended. If you continue to fail to meet the required standards you'll face the regulation 13 process and be out of the job if things don't pick up.
The professional standards teams employed by all forces come down extremely hard on anyone doing as DP suggests and the job very quickly gets rid of anyone who acts in the above manner.
Everyone can have their buttons pressed, however police officers are expected to control their emotions and deal with situations professionally and properly. Even when off duty there's the code of conduct to be followed and on the whole there's not normally any problems at all.
disguise yobbish or low threshold of anger and violence behavural problems to get the job we must consider why the force closes ranks and deffends the actions of these officers ,its rare to watch one of these police videos and see other officers stepping in to say enough is enough for example .
Anyway, back on topic
or maybe sit them down with a colouring book and ask them about their childhood.
Considering the number of violent incidents, and arrests attended every single day, these claims of brutality are very rare, and in many of the complaints, the force used is justified.
Every so often someone will react more forcefully than they should, and that is normally down to human reaction to provocation, often over a long period of time.
One of my colleagues actually retired because he couldn't cope with it anymore. The build up, over years left him fearing he would inflict serious harm on someone. This was identified, and he had all manner of help, before leaving. Thankfully he never used unlawful force, but his very last incident was close. He saw the signs, and just walked away from the incident, because he wanted to beat a drunken yob to a pulp.
I did stress that my school bulies theory was entirely my point of view and in no way a matter of fact.
The case remains though that this sort of thing is in no way unusual. I understand that the police are under stress and are sometimes dealing with the very worst of society which is exactly why I think a complete review of training and recruitment should be undertaken. It seem like this behaviour is systematic and some police officers are doing it without caring who may be watching or recording. One explaination for this could well be that they know nothing will happen to them if they are seen and reported.
You make the argument that there are a lot more cameras around now and so are bound to catch more icidents like this and that is true. What worries me is that these incidents are caught in public where the officers must be aware on some level that they are open to public scrutiny yet in these cases are not detered. Also I worry what the officers who are prone to act like this will do when they are confident that they are not being watched or recorded.
the major incidents of police brutality like g20 this video are
fairly uncommon but theres a lot more less violent headline stuff and the arrogant attitude of some officers that can inflame a person in a relatively minor incident to create a major one
why then is it deemed that the public can be "yobs " when drunk stoned etc and sober police cant when theres no reason to suggest they are immune from bad behavior
only the other week the officer in charge of traffic up here was caught and lost his licence for reckless driving ironically
but at no time was he reffered to as a yob .
The way I see it is if a situation has got to the point where the pub/club security can't handle it and the police have to be called then its quite obvious that all "diplomatic" attempts to sort the thug out have failed and the only option is to use a degree of force.
The vast majority of drunken yobbos are dealt with quite effectively by in-house security and go on their merry way. It is the 1% who persist in acting like arses, that pay no heed to all the previous attempts to calm things down, who are getting very violent themselves that the police are called out on.
im a bit wary of people seeking jobs in which they control the public myself , ok i accept that the alternative of a lawless or vigilante society is far worse prospect but i just
cant help feeling uneasy when something like this happens and theres a wall comes up or so it seems .
It is true that I do not have a great deal of knowledge about training and recruitment procedures. Perhaps you could sugest where changes need to be made so that we stop seein images of police officers behaving in such a way. In this case at the very least contrary to guidlines about using the spray and at G20 in ways that could well be deemed ileagal. If it is not the training at fault where is the problem?
Doesn't justify what looks like a slap in the face.
This wasn't the case at all. Another building was on fire and this why the police were there. They were not there specifically for O'Niell's bar.
Which is apparently what happened. This is why the young lady was screaming at the officers to leave him alone. An understandable reaction to seeing a friend being unnecessarily assaulted by police officers.
I would be very interested to know how he sustained the injuries he had.
pub/club doormen the worlds greatest diplomats
omg have you ever spoke to one