That's quite a mighty claim considering that DVDs haven't been on the market for a lifetime yet. Wouldn't we have to wait until the people who bought the first DVDs start dying off in a few decades time first before we can test out that theory?
Maybe DVD's have proven to last a lifetime in dog years.
I remember CD technology being sold to the public with the very same claims. That they would last a lifetime and were virtually indestructible too.
I didn’ t say DVDs were indestructible. Of course they can be damaged if you set out to do so and only an idiot would pour jam on them and expect them to play flawlessly. I haven’t any CDs that I’ve had to bin because they are now unplayable and I’ve been buying those for 20+ years, likewise DVD at 12 years and counting. VHS, OTOH I have only a handful of pre-recorded ones left and all have drop-outs, sparklies, tracking problems and some have chewed tape causing distortion. It was an obsolete format as soon as it was introduced.
Very true.
I've had to bin a handful of DVDs due to them becoming unplayable due to`laser rot`.
Poorly manufactured is all, not sealed properly. Same problem afflicted laserdisc where quality control slipped. Calling it "rot" implies a biological infestation when all it is simply a result of cost cutting at the producing factory.
I didn’ t say DVDs were indestructible. Of course they can be damaged if you set out to do so and only an idiot would pour jam on them and expect them to play flawlessly. I haven’t any CDs that I’ve had to bin because they are now unplayable and I’ve been buying those for 20+ years, likewise DVD at 12 years and counting. VHS, OTOH I have only a handful of pre-recorded ones left and all have drop-outs, sparklies, tracking problems and some have chewed tape causing distortion. It was an obsolete format as soon as it was introduced.
Poorly manufactured is all, not sealed properly. Same problem afflicted laserdisc where quality control slipped. Calling it "rot" implies a biological infestation when all it is simply a result of cost cutting at the producing factory.
I've had loads of CDs over the years that were eventually unplayable. Top brands too.
I think that any storage medium will probably degrade over a few years.
ie, you know your tortured logic has backed you into a corner so you’re dropping out before everyone else realises it. FYI, I’ve worked in the biz since the early 90s so it’s unfortunate you came up against someone who knows what they’re on about.
Pre-recorded VHS cassettes (even without adjusting for inflation most of the time) were more expensive to the punter then than DVDs are now which is the exact opposite of what you claimed, that somehow now the consumer is being ripped off when in ye olde times they weren’t. And I haven’t even mentioned that practically every pre-recorded VHS from back then has degraded, some being totally unwatchable whereas DVD has a virtually unlimited life especially with the backward compatibility of blu-ray machines.
Seriously, think it through next time.
You are wrong. I have hundreds of VHS tapes I recorded myself since they were introduced plus precorded ones I bought and I never have any problem playing any of them today. The quality of the picture is the same as when I recorded many years ago.
Whereas with DVD when I try to record I get loads of faulty discs and am most upset at some good programmes that are lost and I've tried all makes of DVD discs.
I can honestly say I never had a faulty VHS tape but lots of faulty DVD discs.
ok I have a couple of questions that you guys might be able to answer,
First they briefly alluded to people downlaoding TV shows illegally, but I download TV shows from other countries that do not get aired here, who am I 'stealing' from? and in some cases where possible I do buy the boxset when it is available but not all shows come out on boxset so they ar enot losing money off me.
Secondly some of the music I have downloaded over the years is stuff I have already bought be it on vinyl or cassette that is not compatible with todays technology and is no longer distributed so is unavailable in MP3 format legally. Again how is this stealing and why should I have to pay for the same thing again (if I can) when listening formats change.
Last, slightly off topic, but when someone resells a CD or DVD the music industry is not making any money off it, and people here have pointed out you can buy cheap cds and dvds at car boot sales, charity shops and even online at places like ebay, play.com, amazon marketplace etc. what is the difference to the artists or record comapines between me downloading or me buying seconhand? neither way do they make any money.
Final note, as a child I remember asking my parents if recording songs off the radio onto cassette is illegal.....why do they sell blank cassettes?
seems now my kid is asking the same thing....if it is illegal to record TV shows or video why do they sell blank DVDs and DVD recorders
I have hundreds of VHS tapes I recorded myself since they were introduced plus precorded ones I bought and I never have any problem playing any of them today. The quality of the picture is the same as when I recorded many years ago.
Whereas with DVD when I try to record I get loads of faulty discs and am most upset at some good programmes that are lost and I've tried all makes of DVD discs.
I can honestly say I never had a faulty VHS tape but lots of faulty DVD discs.
We’re talking about and comparing pre-recorded, store-bought material not home taping vs DVDr. VHS degrades over time - It’s a simple fact.
I've had loads of CDs over the years that were eventually unplayable. Top brands too.
The brand is irrelevant, it is the manufacturing facility that would be to blame. IIRC a notorious one was a Phillips facility that was churning sub-standard discs out for some time, not sealed properly over time they became unplayable and the discs dis-coloured. I repeat, this was down to sloppy manufacturing and not an inherent fault of the compact disc format.
Final note, as a child I remember asking my parents if recording songs off the radio onto cassette is illegal.....why do they sell blank cassettes?
seems now my kid is asking the same thing....if it is illegal to record TV shows or video why do they sell blank DVDs and DVD recorders
It isn’t illegal to record shows from your TV for your own personal use. Distributing them thereafter as if you had rights to do so, is.
"I've had loads of CDs over the years that were eventually unplayable. Top brands too."
So shouldn't you be able to take them back to the shop and ask for a new copy of the media for a nominal sum - since you've already paid the artist and record company for the priviledge of listening to this music.
No they would much rather you pay for it twice or more !
( as media formats come and go )
I've had loads of CDs over the years that were eventually unplayable. Top brands too.
This is a bit of a bugbear of mine... what the hell are you doing with your CDs?! :eek:
Sitting in my parents' basement with me now(*), I've got thousands of music CDs, ranging from the year dot, thousands of CD-Rs from 1994 onwards, hundreds of DVDs, hundreds of DVD-Rs from about 2000 onwards, and I've had ZERO bad discs, except for about 4 music CDs that developed a 'bloom' which was easily wiped away with a cloth.
Obviously, I'm not counting bad 'burns', 'cos everyone immediately verifies their burned discs, and ditches them if they're imperfect, right?
The issue was viewed through lobbyists' eyes. And because equal time was given to a cross-section of lobbyists, the BBC will doubtless insist this was fair and balanced. Yet if the Honourable Old Duffers in the House of Lords can make monkeys out of the lobbyists - and debate legal P2P - why can't the BBC?
What difference does it make whether it's a physical product or not that you're taking? It still cost money to produce (the cost of recording, marketing etc). And downloading it illegally still means that the creator receives a lesser reward for their work (and/or possibly means higher prices for everyone else). If this argument of 'it's okay to steal non-physical products' stands, then I suppose it must be morally fine to fare-dodge and sneak into gigs and sporting events without paying?
As for this "I'm only doing it to browse more music" argument, pull the other one. There are plenty of ways to browse music nowadays without the need for illegal downloading.
Do you remember ten/fifteen years ago when CDs were £17 in HMV? The record industry is obviously one of those businesses that need a kick up the backside to change their model, and people illegally downloading did that (starting with Napster). The music biz really is its own worst enemy.
This is a bit of a bugbear of mine... what the hell are you doing with your CDs?! :eek:
Sitting in my parents' basement with me now(*), I've got thousands of music CDs, ranging from the year dot, thousands of CD-Rs from 1994 onwards, hundreds of DVDs, hundreds of DVD-Rs from about 2000 onwards, and I've had ZERO bad discs, except for about 4 music CDs that developed a 'bloom' which was easily wiped away with a cloth.
Obviously, I'm not counting bad 'burns', 'cos everyone immediately verifies their burned discs, and ditches them if they're imperfect, right?
(*) joke
Agree completely... all my pressed music CD and DVDs are still perfect. Some of the discs I burnt in 1998 are ropey, but that was down to a crap 1X burner.
Also, what sort of twisted logic is required to even try to justify stealing the work of a musical artist you supposedly admire (otherwise why are you even downloading it)?
It's theft, plain and simple. Worse than that, it's like stealing from a friend.
i don't illegally download myself, but it's not actually theft it's copyright infringement, but the anti-downloading lobby calls it theft as it has more of a punch.
Theft=
If i had a wallet with a tenner in and you swiped it from me and ran off. You would now be in full posession of my wallet and i would be bereft of it
in DL-ing you don't physichally take the song out of the hands of the artist or record company you make an unlawful copy.
Using the same analogy above, it's like If I had a wallet with a tenner in it and you came along with a magic wand and directly cloned an exact duplicate of it, without my permission and walked away.
both illegal, but it's not theft. However i echo you're sentiments that it shouldn't be done.
Do you remember ten/fifteen years ago when CDs were £17 in HMV? The record industry is obviously one of those businesses that need a kick up the backside to change their model, and people illegally downloading did that (starting with Napster). The music biz really is its own worst enemy.
I was in my teens back then and I feel really cheated and angry when I think of how much I used to shell out for music.
The industry only have themselves to blame for the public shunning them. If they'd embraced the download culture from the get go instead of trying to shut down every site, I doubt they'd be in this mess.
Do you know what i think the worst think the anti-Downloading alliance do.....thank people for legally buying records/films.
I hate those 30 second unskippable ads on DVDs, or those segments before a film in the cinema congratulating you on legally paying for it. They are not only irritating, but they come across as patronizing, as if you're a little doggy being given a treat for doing good.
Do you know what i think the worst think the anti-Downloading alliance do.....thank people for legally buying records/films.
I hate those 30 second unskippable ads on DVDs, or those segments before a film in the cinema congratulating you on legally paying for it. They are not only irritating, but they come across as patronizing, as if you're a little doggy being given a treat for doing good.
All anti-piracy ads are self-defeating. They are all patronising and VERY stupid.
The "knock off Nigel" ones, which compares a downloader to someone who steals their friend's money and goods, mademe so angry I went off and downloaded a whole load more films!!
The big corporations just don't seem to understand. Whether by choice or sheer stupidity, I don't know. What I am sure about, is any company that literally leans on governments to persecute people who - under a fractionally different set of circumstances would be loyal customers - cannot win.
If BigMoney Corps wants to stay in business, the answer is not to prosecute every little Johnnie who grabs himself an album or tatty quality cam-job movie. The answer, is to SELL PRODUCTS AT A REASONABLE PRICE, and in the forms that the audience requires.
Example 1: Movies - A rush release DIV-X format for new movies, sold on-line at a quid a shot. No tricks, no limitations, other than that of the format. Many of those who like the movie will go on to buy the packaged version, with extras, providing that version is reasonably priced.
Example 2: Music - Never mind 79p a track from those iTunes rip-off merchants, try 10p. The company would still make an absolute fortune, and ugly ****ers like Feargal Sharkey could keep their mugs off TV. Similarly, mix your own album deals should be available for a fiver.
It's so simple, even a stuffed meerkat can understand! But no, will BigMoney Coprs listen and adjust its business model? Not a chance.
Wow, that program was so frustrating to watch. All the comments that I wanted to scream "DON'T TALK SHIT" about, all the questions that I wanted to hear asked but never were...
As has been said, if I download something, the record company has not lost the revenue, unless I would have bought it.
If the record companies were not so against the changing times, then they would not have this problem now. Instead of embracing the era, they spent a lot of cash trying to fight piracy. This could have been spent realising that people suddenly want music free/cheap and on demand. They could have developed technology or ways to do this and still make money.
We are now starting to see products coming out that can give us on demand music, free, whilst still making money for the companies. This is happening far too slowly though, with too low quality.
All anti-piracy ads are self-defeating. They are all patronising and VERY stupid.
The "knock off Nigel" ones, which compares a downloader to someone who steals their friend's money and goods, mademe so angry I went off and downloaded a whole load more films!!
Yeah knock off nigel was a terrible ad campaign.
1) they obviously hoped the 'knock off nigel' song would catch on....it didn't
2) They seemed cruel in nature: they were all about socially humiliating someone at work at the pub
3) I was confused as to why the advertisers were slagging off the nigel's for being stingy, and trying to duck out of paying a lot for stuff. Didn't the advertisers know that with places like Primark, Aldi, TK-Maxx, E-bay doing a roaring trade it's actually celebrated to be stingy at the minute.
Comments
I didn’ t say DVDs were indestructible. Of course they can be damaged if you set out to do so and only an idiot would pour jam on them and expect them to play flawlessly. I haven’t any CDs that I’ve had to bin because they are now unplayable and I’ve been buying those for 20+ years, likewise DVD at 12 years and counting. VHS, OTOH I have only a handful of pre-recorded ones left and all have drop-outs, sparklies, tracking problems and some have chewed tape causing distortion. It was an obsolete format as soon as it was introduced.
Poorly manufactured is all, not sealed properly. Same problem afflicted laserdisc where quality control slipped. Calling it "rot" implies a biological infestation when all it is simply a result of cost cutting at the producing factory.
I've had loads of CDs over the years that were eventually unplayable. Top brands too.
I think that any storage medium will probably degrade over a few years.
You are wrong. I have hundreds of VHS tapes I recorded myself since they were introduced plus precorded ones I bought and I never have any problem playing any of them today. The quality of the picture is the same as when I recorded many years ago.
Whereas with DVD when I try to record I get loads of faulty discs and am most upset at some good programmes that are lost and I've tried all makes of DVD discs.
I can honestly say I never had a faulty VHS tape but lots of faulty DVD discs.
First they briefly alluded to people downlaoding TV shows illegally, but I download TV shows from other countries that do not get aired here, who am I 'stealing' from? and in some cases where possible I do buy the boxset when it is available but not all shows come out on boxset so they ar enot losing money off me.
Secondly some of the music I have downloaded over the years is stuff I have already bought be it on vinyl or cassette that is not compatible with todays technology and is no longer distributed so is unavailable in MP3 format legally. Again how is this stealing and why should I have to pay for the same thing again (if I can) when listening formats change.
Last, slightly off topic, but when someone resells a CD or DVD the music industry is not making any money off it, and people here have pointed out you can buy cheap cds and dvds at car boot sales, charity shops and even online at places like ebay, play.com, amazon marketplace etc. what is the difference to the artists or record comapines between me downloading or me buying seconhand? neither way do they make any money.
Final note, as a child I remember asking my parents if recording songs off the radio onto cassette is illegal.....why do they sell blank cassettes?
seems now my kid is asking the same thing....if it is illegal to record TV shows or video why do they sell blank DVDs and DVD recorders
Sometimes, but not about this.
We’re talking about and comparing pre-recorded, store-bought material not home taping vs DVDr. VHS degrades over time - It’s a simple fact.
The brand is irrelevant, it is the manufacturing facility that would be to blame. IIRC a notorious one was a Phillips facility that was churning sub-standard discs out for some time, not sealed properly over time they became unplayable and the discs dis-coloured. I repeat, this was down to sloppy manufacturing and not an inherent fault of the compact disc format.
It isn’t illegal to record shows from your TV for your own personal use. Distributing them thereafter as if you had rights to do so, is.
So shouldn't you be able to take them back to the shop and ask for a new copy of the media for a nominal sum - since you've already paid the artist and record company for the priviledge of listening to this music.
No they would much rather you pay for it twice or more !
( as media formats come and go )
This is a bit of a bugbear of mine... what the hell are you doing with your CDs?! :eek:
Sitting in my parents' basement with me now(*), I've got thousands of music CDs, ranging from the year dot, thousands of CD-Rs from 1994 onwards, hundreds of DVDs, hundreds of DVD-Rs from about 2000 onwards, and I've had ZERO bad discs, except for about 4 music CDs that developed a 'bloom' which was easily wiped away with a cloth.
Obviously, I'm not counting bad 'burns', 'cos everyone immediately verifies their burned discs, and ditches them if they're imperfect, right?
(*) joke
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/16/panorama_file_sharing/
As for this "I'm only doing it to browse more music" argument, pull the other one. There are plenty of ways to browse music nowadays without the need for illegal downloading.
That'll be why my Live Aid tapes are so unwatchable then!... NOT!
Recorded with silmulcast in 1985 using my first HiFi recorder, and as good as the day they were taped.
But then I always used high grade tape, so maybe that's why.
I have a collection of over 300 tapes, all recorded between 1981 and 2000, and 99% of them are still pristine.
Agree completely... all my pressed music CD and DVDs are still perfect. Some of the discs I burnt in 1998 are ropey, but that was down to a crap 1X burner.
i don't illegally download myself, but it's not actually theft it's copyright infringement, but the anti-downloading lobby calls it theft as it has more of a punch.
Theft=
If i had a wallet with a tenner in and you swiped it from me and ran off. You would now be in full posession of my wallet and i would be bereft of it
in DL-ing you don't physichally take the song out of the hands of the artist or record company you make an unlawful copy.
Using the same analogy above, it's like If I had a wallet with a tenner in it and you came along with a magic wand and directly cloned an exact duplicate of it, without my permission and walked away.
both illegal, but it's not theft. However i echo you're sentiments that it shouldn't be done.
I was in my teens back then and I feel really cheated and angry when I think of how much I used to shell out for music.
The industry only have themselves to blame for the public shunning them. If they'd embraced the download culture from the get go instead of trying to shut down every site, I doubt they'd be in this mess.
I also recorded about 3 vhs tapes that day in 1985, up to a few years ago when I still had a vhs player they were as good as they were back then.
g
I hate those 30 second unskippable ads on DVDs, or those segments before a film in the cinema congratulating you on legally paying for it. They are not only irritating, but they come across as patronizing, as if you're a little doggy being given a treat for doing good.
I stayed awake all day and night and had a tape ready every time one ran out... 5 tapes in total...
I'm glad now, because of the horribly butchered official release.
All anti-piracy ads are self-defeating. They are all patronising and VERY stupid.
The "knock off Nigel" ones, which compares a downloader to someone who steals their friend's money and goods, mademe so angry I went off and downloaded a whole load more films!!
Shame about the picture quality during the queen set as it was/is the highlight of the day, I read somewhere it was interference or something.
g
Camera "microphony", perhaps? Queen were so loud that some of the cameras closest to the stage rattled about, creating banded lines of colour.
The remastered 5.1 surround sound mix on Queen Live In Montreal is utterly breathtaking. THE standout live performance of the 80's.
If BigMoney Corps wants to stay in business, the answer is not to prosecute every little Johnnie who grabs himself an album or tatty quality cam-job movie. The answer, is to SELL PRODUCTS AT A REASONABLE PRICE, and in the forms that the audience requires.
Example 1: Movies - A rush release DIV-X format for new movies, sold on-line at a quid a shot. No tricks, no limitations, other than that of the format. Many of those who like the movie will go on to buy the packaged version, with extras, providing that version is reasonably priced.
Example 2: Music - Never mind 79p a track from those iTunes rip-off merchants, try 10p. The company would still make an absolute fortune, and ugly ****ers like Feargal Sharkey could keep their mugs off TV. Similarly, mix your own album deals should be available for a fiver.
It's so simple, even a stuffed meerkat can understand! But no, will BigMoney Coprs listen and adjust its business model? Not a chance.
As has been said, if I download something, the record company has not lost the revenue, unless I would have bought it.
If the record companies were not so against the changing times, then they would not have this problem now. Instead of embracing the era, they spent a lot of cash trying to fight piracy. This could have been spent realising that people suddenly want music free/cheap and on demand. They could have developed technology or ways to do this and still make money.
We are now starting to see products coming out that can give us on demand music, free, whilst still making money for the companies. This is happening far too slowly though, with too low quality.
Yeah knock off nigel was a terrible ad campaign.
1) they obviously hoped the 'knock off nigel' song would catch on....it didn't
2) They seemed cruel in nature: they were all about socially humiliating someone at work at the pub
3) I was confused as to why the advertisers were slagging off the nigel's for being stingy, and trying to duck out of paying a lot for stuff. Didn't the advertisers know that with places like Primark, Aldi, TK-Maxx, E-bay doing a roaring trade it's actually celebrated to be stingy at the minute.