In fairness to Wenger, he has signed Walcott, Ramsay and Wilshere in recent times, although he does seem to have had a preference for French bargain players.
.....oh, and let's not forget that unknown surprise talent, Campbell
As I sadi before, sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say well done, as there isn't a team anywhere that could have delt with Messi on that kind of form.
Son't take this as a defeat, more of an opportunity to watch a master craftsman at work.
Doesn't help when the defending was shambolic. Messi is a fantastic player but we made it so easy for him. If only Wenger had some of George Graham's defensive nous. Barecelona won't find it so easy against Inter.
You seem to be totally missing the point that Charles I made, there is no bigotry anywhere. The "French-African" angle is one that is popular with Wenger and his scouts. A place to unearth a potential star at a bargain price, and of course a French passport eases the playing illegibility issues.
No shit.
None of which has any relevance to thinking Chamakh isn't French-African because he's Arab or wanting the dismissal or signing of players based on their origin.
In fairness to Wenger, he has signed Walcott, Ramsay and Wilshere in recent times, although he does seem to have had a preference for French bargain players.
.....oh, and let's not forget that unknown surprise talent, Campbell
Please, let's not let facts get in the way of a good bit of old fashioned johnny foreigner scapegoating. Arsenal's deficiencies are clearly down to those pesky French-Africans!
In fairness to Wenger, he has signed Walcott, Ramsay and Wilshere in recent times, although he does seem to have had a preference for French bargain players.
.....oh, and let's not forget that unknown surprise talent, Campbell
Wilshire actually came through your youth team didn't he?
.You cannot play one tactic football at this level.:mad:
This is the crux of why Wenger has never won a European trophy for us and I don't believe he will until he develops some tactical nous. You can blast 90% of teams away with a "we'll score more than you approach" but the best 10% will just pick you off as is now becoming a recurring theme. Our attacking players need to learn the art of tracking back and tackling when they haven't got the ball and our defensive midfielders have to learn the art of sitting in front of the back 4 and not being ccaught out in front of the ball. Our full backs have such a torrid time because the player in front of them loses the ball cheaply and doesn't track back.
Barcelona are a very special team who are light years ahead of us, anyone who believes our young side will one day be as good is delusional. We simply have to start signing proven quality to supplement some of the rough diamonds we have or nothing will change.
Barcelona are a very special team who are light years ahead of us, anyone who believes our young side will one day be as good is delusional. We simply have to start signing proven quality to supplement some of the rough diamonds we have or nothing will change.
Don't forget Tel, at the acrimonious shareholders meeting last year he said that if the team didn't win anything THIS year he would have to accept his approach had failed. I do hope someone reminds him of this at the end of the season and we see a positive change to the usual summer transfer activity.
Wenger isn't going to change the way he plays the game. He's 60 yrs old and just don't see him abandoning his philosophies.
As as we scored last night, I instantly though back to '94 when we scored more or less the same time against a very good Parma side and by hook or by crook we held on for a famous win. We rode our luck at times but we were so bloody minded as a unit under Graham that Parma would have to earn that goal. It wasn't pretty but it was effective. I knew though it was when, not if Barcelona would score last night. That's the difference. Not saying we would not have been beaten if Graham had been in charge last night but we would not have shipped 4 goals in such an easy manner.
Until Wenger accepts that sometimes you can't compete with the Barcelona's of this world like for like then the trophy cabinet will remain empty for a while yet.
We lost to the best player in the world and possibly the best team in the world, though i think Inter might beat them and win the cup this year.
Last nights game for me showed that Clichy is getting back to where he was 2 years ago, also Denilson a player who i think hides in many games seems to now be growing up and could follow Song and become a very good defensive player.
Last nights game for me showed that Clichy is getting back to where he was 2 years ago, also Denilson a player who i think hides in many games seems to now be growing up and could follow Song and become a very good defensive player.
Great shout on Clichy. He was the only one playing with any heart last night. 15 mins to go, running 40 yards to get the ball for Barca to hurry them up. Some of his decisions in the Barca half were ropey, but defensively sound and bursting forward at every opportunity.
I cry a little inside whenever I see Eduardo these days though. Remembering the player he was and how ineffective he is now worries me. For him and for Aaron.
With Messi on that form, anyone who isn't a Barca fan or Argentinian should be worried because he will decide the destiny of the two biggest trophies up for grabs this year. Without doubt. Tikkaboo son, tikkiaboo!
Don't forget Tel, at the acrimonious shareholders meeting last year he said that if the team didn't win anything THIS year he would have to accept his approach had failed. I do hope someone reminds him of this at the end of the season and we see a positive change to the usual summer transfer activity.
I'll reserve judgement until the season is over but it's fair to say questions will be asked and answers needed if we go trophyless again. Our record in big games is embarassing whilst we always seem to beat everyone else.
Naveen-Please tell me you are joking about Denilson?? Apart from 2 30 yard goals per season he brings nothing to the team. Song and Diaby have improved a lot this season, he hasn't at all.
I'm more convinced than ever that walcott should be tried through the middle. He is probably the most useless passer of a ball I have ever seen, not a great attribute for a winger. He hasn't come on at all since he's been at the club, so alarm bells should be ringing that something has to change. We can either keep as an underperforming winger or try and do something about it
We've all seen him beat players with ease only to hit the ball into the stands, behind his team mates, out for a throw in or straight to a defender. For whatever reason, the boy simply cannot pass the ball with any consistancy, he cannot get the angles right nor weight of the ball - he will never put people in with precision passing a la dennis bergkamp. Even in simple situations, like the 4 on 1 V wolves, he messes up, and again last night for our goal, he totally underhit the pass to bendtner from a few yards, who luckily scrambled it in
I'm more convinced than ever that walcott should be tried through the middle. He is probably the most useless passer of a ball I have ever seen, not a great attribute for a winger. He hasn't come on at all since he's been at the club, so alarm bells should be ringing that something has to change. We can either keep as an underperforming winger or try and do something about it
We've all seen him beat players with ease only to hit the ball into the stands, behind his team mates, out for a throw in or straight to a defender. For whatever reason, the boy simply cannot pass the ball with any consistancy, he cannot get the angles right nor weight of the ball - he will never put people in with precision passing a la dennis bergkamp. Even in simple situations, like the 4 on 1 V wolves, he messes up, and again last night for our goal, he totally underhit the pass to bendtner from a few yards, who luckily scrambled it in
I'd rather see him shooting than passing any day
I'm more convinced than ever that he should be sold to Newcastle or someone of that ilk for whatever we can get for him. The only thing he did last night was the pass for the goal and he even tried his best to cock that up. When will the biased English media realise that he is a very ordinary player??
I'm not as disappointed as I thought, as Barca are way ahead of us and Messi on that form is wonderful. I just hope they can see off Inter, who will just try to stop them playing -did you see Pep Guardiola thanked Arsenal for playing proper football - and then Man Utd - with their luck, Messi will be injured or something.
I hope AW will now be as good as his word and add significantly to the squad, with "quality" (his favourite word) players, not just more average players or kids. We already have a huge squad, but it's full of kids who will never be that good or old timers who never were that good really. Barca have a smallish squad but it oozes quality. They lost 3 CBs and could bring in Milito - who looks v good.
Theo's very young and I think he will get better as he will learn. Diaby depresses me. Lots of natural talent but no football brain.
I hope we can hang on to Cesc.
Still think Theo can become something yet. I wouldn't be too hasty in getting rid. Call it blind faith but just a feeling I have.
I'd second this.
He's had persistent niggling injuries this season and hasn't had a proper run in the team. With crosses we don't have anyone who is that good- look at our corners etc! Think part of the problem for Theo is that when he gets down the wing there's either 1 player or nobody in the box to cross it to.
Seeing as we had nearly half a team out with injuries then not greatly surprised at the outcome. Not saying we would have won with a full strength team but might have been interesting. Messi is an awesome player but give any decent player so much space and he will punish you. It's not just about the players but how you play too that matters.
Would have liked Wenger just try something different such as playing Sagna at centre half and Eboue at right back. It's not as if height was an issue from Barca. Just given them something to think about. Why wait so long before subbing the ineffective Rosicky? Just wished Wenger would be a dash more unorthodox now and again instead of playing it safe. We made so so easy for Barcelona to pick us off. A small mercy they took their foot off the gas in the second half otherwise it could have been carnage.
Still on the bright side, the teams we have left to face should be a doddle after last night.
Messi was outstanding, I'm not as disappointed as I thought I would be TBH.
I have to agree with you. Barca are an amazing team, and Messi is the icing on the cake, there was no stopping him last night. We just couldn't compete. But like you, I'm not as disappointed as I thought, at least we were in contention after the first leg, but last night was a pretty resounding defeat. I know it sounds daft, but I'd rather lose to the best team in the world than to Man U or Chelsea.
I do wonder if we had all our best players fit, RVP, Cesc, Song etc, would it have made a difference, I suppose we'll never know now.
All in all, we've done well this season in the league and to get this far in the CL, much better than anyone thought we would anyway - I just hope Arsene strengthens the squad next season, or we could well be having this conversation - yet again......
Comments
.....oh, and let's not forget that unknown surprise talent, Campbell
Son't take this as a defeat, more of an opportunity to watch a master craftsman at work.
No shit.
None of which has any relevance to thinking Chamakh isn't French-African because he's Arab or wanting the dismissal or signing of players based on their origin.
Please, let's not let facts get in the way of a good bit of old fashioned johnny foreigner scapegoating. Arsenal's deficiencies are clearly down to those pesky French-Africans!
Wilshire actually came through your youth team didn't he?
This is the crux of why Wenger has never won a European trophy for us and I don't believe he will until he develops some tactical nous. You can blast 90% of teams away with a "we'll score more than you approach" but the best 10% will just pick you off as is now becoming a recurring theme. Our attacking players need to learn the art of tracking back and tackling when they haven't got the ball and our defensive midfielders have to learn the art of sitting in front of the back 4 and not being ccaught out in front of the ball. Our full backs have such a torrid time because the player in front of them loses the ball cheaply and doesn't track back.
Barcelona are a very special team who are light years ahead of us, anyone who believes our young side will one day be as good is delusional. We simply have to start signing proven quality to supplement some of the rough diamonds we have or nothing will change.
Don't forget Tel, at the acrimonious shareholders meeting last year he said that if the team didn't win anything THIS year he would have to accept his approach had failed. I do hope someone reminds him of this at the end of the season and we see a positive change to the usual summer transfer activity.
As as we scored last night, I instantly though back to '94 when we scored more or less the same time against a very good Parma side and by hook or by crook we held on for a famous win. We rode our luck at times but we were so bloody minded as a unit under Graham that Parma would have to earn that goal. It wasn't pretty but it was effective. I knew though it was when, not if Barcelona would score last night. That's the difference. Not saying we would not have been beaten if Graham had been in charge last night but we would not have shipped 4 goals in such an easy manner.
Until Wenger accepts that sometimes you can't compete with the Barcelona's of this world like for like then the trophy cabinet will remain empty for a while yet.
Last nights game for me showed that Clichy is getting back to where he was 2 years ago, also Denilson a player who i think hides in many games seems to now be growing up and could follow Song and become a very good defensive player.
Great shout on Clichy. He was the only one playing with any heart last night. 15 mins to go, running 40 yards to get the ball for Barca to hurry them up. Some of his decisions in the Barca half were ropey, but defensively sound and bursting forward at every opportunity.
I cry a little inside whenever I see Eduardo these days though.
With Messi on that form, anyone who isn't a Barca fan or Argentinian should be worried because he will decide the destiny of the two biggest trophies up for grabs this year. Without doubt. Tikkaboo son, tikkiaboo!
I'll reserve judgement until the season is over but it's fair to say questions will be asked and answers needed if we go trophyless again. Our record in big games is embarassing whilst we always seem to beat everyone else.
Naveen-Please tell me you are joking about Denilson?? Apart from 2 30 yard goals per season he brings nothing to the team. Song and Diaby have improved a lot this season, he hasn't at all.
We've all seen him beat players with ease only to hit the ball into the stands, behind his team mates, out for a throw in or straight to a defender. For whatever reason, the boy simply cannot pass the ball with any consistancy, he cannot get the angles right nor weight of the ball - he will never put people in with precision passing a la dennis bergkamp. Even in simple situations, like the 4 on 1 V wolves, he messes up, and again last night for our goal, he totally underhit the pass to bendtner from a few yards, who luckily scrambled it in
I'd rather see him shooting than passing any day
I'm more convinced than ever that he should be sold to Newcastle or someone of that ilk for whatever we can get for him. The only thing he did last night was the pass for the goal and he even tried his best to cock that up. When will the biased English media realise that he is a very ordinary player??
Until he has decent a 1st touch I think not.
I hope AW will now be as good as his word and add significantly to the squad, with "quality" (his favourite word) players, not just more average players or kids. We already have a huge squad, but it's full of kids who will never be that good or old timers who never were that good really. Barca have a smallish squad but it oozes quality. They lost 3 CBs and could bring in Milito - who looks v good.
Theo's very young and I think he will get better as he will learn. Diaby depresses me. Lots of natural talent but no football brain.
I hope we can hang on to Cesc.
Surely not!
I'd second this.
He's had persistent niggling injuries this season and hasn't had a proper run in the team. With crosses we don't have anyone who is that good- look at our corners etc! Think part of the problem for Theo is that when he gets down the wing there's either 1 player or nobody in the box to cross it to.
I seem to remember people saying the same sort of things about Henry in his first few seasons. Although, Walcott seems to be showing less progress.
Would have liked Wenger just try something different such as playing Sagna at centre half and Eboue at right back. It's not as if height was an issue from Barca. Just given them something to think about. Why wait so long before subbing the ineffective Rosicky? Just wished Wenger would be a dash more unorthodox now and again instead of playing it safe. We made so so easy for Barcelona to pick us off. A small mercy they took their foot off the gas in the second half otherwise it could have been carnage.
Still on the bright side, the teams we have left to face should be a doddle after last night.
I have to agree with you. Barca are an amazing team, and Messi is the icing on the cake, there was no stopping him last night. We just couldn't compete. But like you, I'm not as disappointed as I thought, at least we were in contention after the first leg, but last night was a pretty resounding defeat. I know it sounds daft, but I'd rather lose to the best team in the world than to Man U or Chelsea.
I do wonder if we had all our best players fit, RVP, Cesc, Song etc, would it have made a difference, I suppose we'll never know now.
All in all, we've done well this season in the league and to get this far in the CL, much better than anyone thought we would anyway - I just hope Arsene strengthens the squad next season, or we could well be having this conversation - yet again......
Fixed it for you.;)