Do the 9-11 Truthers here who think OBL and AQ had nout to do with it also believe that WTC 1993, the Embassy bombings in 1998 and the USS Cole were inside jobs too?.
Wow that's going of on a tangent.
9/11 I'll agree with, the others no. Given the fact that America is the biggest culprit known to man for their false-flag instigating knee-jerk military wars (Vietnam anyone?) doesn't exactly exonerate AQ or OBL. OBL was a former CIA-asset and was a significant ally in amongst foreign U.S. military operations. As was Saddam.
9/11 smacks of (IMO) AQ aided, funded or abetted by the U.S. - with deliberate flaws and/or inconsistencies with the U.S. intelligence.
AQ/Taliban are just the 'boogeymen', the scapegoat - the façade face of a largely unknown enemy.
The biggest threat to peace in the middle-east and biggest culprit of crimes and terrorism against humanity is Israel, but of course we'll never combat our own terrorism.
Wendy, you're not answering the point really, as I was talking about international law in the first paragraph. The Taliban came to power against international law, you defend it. You state the occupation of Afghanistan is against international law, and that's your main driver of it's illigitemacy. You're being hypocritical, your argument doesn't measure up.
As for elections, I was just pointing out your glaring error, or misrepresentation, that the Taliban were elected when, as you have no accepted, they never where. They have never been a legitimate and legal government. That's a glaring fact which you cannot argue against.
tin what way was taliban rise to power against international law/
Most of the world accepts Karzai, with some reservations about his honesty - but hey, he's a politician.
Asking for an honest politician is like asking for an honest lawyer.
If elections do not confer legitimacy then the US and Israel were correct to condemn, and to refuse to recognise Hamas' claim to be the legitimate government of Gaza and Palestine.
Or do we only question the legitimating effect of democracy when it suits us?
All The Best
elections does not confer legitimacy as a matter of autamacity.
legitimacy arrives with respect to a democracy from a place of free fair honest transparent elections.
no one has doubted the legitimacy of the hamas victory unlike gw bushs 2 victories.
but i have to say democracy as we know it is not the be all and end all.
women are now more oppressed than under the taliban .. dont you read the reports across the media .. its the northern alliance / warlords who are more conservative than the taliban ..
So I guess all them White UK nationals who dont support british soldiers invading other lands are traitors also right??
I don't support us being there in the first place (or Iraq for that matter) - but as we are there, my support is for our troops and them being properly equipped and funded and brought home as soon as possible. They are not responsible for the misguided games Blair and Bush played. But we have a moral responsibility to support our troops and to not leave the country in complete chaos and just pull out. My support is certainly not for the Taliban.
tin what way was taliban rise to power against international law/
The Taliban 'government' was not recognised by the UN. Only Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Pakistan recognised the Taliban government (even that changed after 9/11).
So I guess all them White UK nationals who dont support british soldiers invading other lands are traitors also right??
Erm, no. Because they put their country ahead of their religion, in fact most dont have any religion. All they do is oppose a decision by their country. That is different to placing religion or ideology ahead of nationality.
I support muslims fighting occupation all over the world. If you wanna call me a traitor then go ahead, my religion is more important to me then place of birth.
Yes may be so your religion is more important you than your place of birth. May I ask why live in a country that is not highly populated with Muslims?
You may be born here, but nothing stops you from going back.
Yes may be so your religion is more important you than your place of birth. May I ask why live in a country that is not highly populated with Muslims?
You may be born here, but nothing stops you from going back.
Wow sheer ignorance on display here. Because a poster is Muslim you automatically assumed they weren't somehow British, furthermore go "back", back where? What magical country is Islam exclusive to, Muslim-land? :rolleyes:
Yes may be so your religion is more important you than your place of birth. May I ask why live in a country that is not highly populated with Muslims?
You may be born here, but nothing stops you from going back.
lol go back where? I was born in the UK and so was my parents. Also if I lived in Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc I would put my religion above them countries also.
I am not sure why people see this as some kind of disgraceful act and find it pretty funny to be honest.
Just seems that many people, politicians in the west cannot grasp the idea that muslims living in the UK associate themselves closer to muslims around the world then queen and country.
Wow ignorance of the tallest order. Because a poster is Muslim you automatically assumed they weren't British, furthermore go back, back where what magical country is Islam exclusive to, Muslim-land? :rolleyes:
I did NOT say or assume that s/he is not British. Where? Wherever they want to live.
lol go back where? I was born in the UK and so was my parents. Also if I lived in Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc I would put my religion above them countries also.
I am not sure why people see this as some kind of disgraceful act and find it pretty funny to be honest.
Just seems that many people, politicians in the west cannot grasp the idea that muslims living in the UK associate themselves closer to muslims around the world then queen and country.
I don't mind Muslims living in the country and don't have any problems with Muslims. I am ashamed that people in our country does not respect our soldiers who just returned. Remember, the government ordered them to fight, and the soldiers were doing their job.
I don't mind Muslims living in the country and don't have any problems with Muslims. I am ashamed that people in our country does not respect our soldiers who just returned. Remember, the government ordered them to fight, and the soldiers were doing their job.
To be honest although the muslims protesting had a right to do so (as long as it was non violent). I have said before on other topics that I do not think it is a good idea to do so. It just brings more pressure and hate on muslims living in the UK.
To be honest although the muslims protesting had a right to do so (as long as it was non violent). I have said before on other topics that I do not think it is a good idea to do so. It just brings more pressure and hate on muslims living in the UK.
I agree. I also think that is exactly what these groups are after. They should be ignored, dont give them media coverage. How much are their rants worth if their audience is only the hundred odd folk in the vicinity at the time
It was a disgusting idea to insult the soldiers on their homecoming, i'd have been furious if a loved one from that battalion hadn't made it home. I am very much against the war but there are better ways to make your feelings heard than this, and all they have done if show their religion in a bad light, even though the vast majority of Muslims wouldn't have done the same. It is one step up from going to soldiers funerals and partying imo.
Wow sheer ignorance on display here. Because a poster is Muslim you automatically assumed they weren't somehow British, furthermore go "back", back where? What magical country is Islam exclusive to, Muslim-land? :rolleyes:
Back to reading the Daily Mail...
Islam, even the supposed Moderate Islam we hear a lot about but see very little of, is irreconcilable with any notion or concept of what it means to be British.
I am not talking about ethnicity here.
I am talking about morality, law, social structures.
His nationality is another matter.
Assuming the poster is a British National I have no problem with his living in this country.
But the kid gloves and appeasement approach as regards Islam, and indeed Judaism in some areas, needs to stop.
Halal butchery is illegal under current animal slaughter legislation (I forget the name used to describe this barbarity by the followers of Judaism - but the principle remains the same), yet Muslims are allowed to continue in violation of these laws.
A report in, IIRC The Guardian, about a year or so ago clearly demonstrated that a Sharia Court had returned a verdict in an inheritance case where the daughter was afforded less than a full share of the inheritance just because of her gender. This is contrary to both British and European Law.
This is not only religious discrimination - treating one group differently because of their religious views - but it is also gender discrimination.
This is unacceptable, it is intolerable and it will only fuel religious and racial tension and make further conflict more likely.
So, as far as I am concerned, any British National Muslims are more than welcome to remain in this country as is their right, and Non-British Muslims are welcome to come to this country as long as they follow the due immigration process under one simple proviso: One Land, One Law, One Official Language.
Anything less is in some form or other discrimination, and I oppose it.
Taliban aren't the real army of Afghanistan - Neither were the french resistance
Taliban fighting against an occupying military force - So were the french
Please do tell me what you fee is being missed out here. If these facts are incorrect, I will gladly edit them.
And saying there is "no point" in debating could be seen as an attempt to avoid answering the difficult questions posed. It's up to you of course whether you chose to engage in mature debate, or storm off claiming "There's no point".
I couldn't really care less if you think I've 'stormed off', as I am not exactly seeking your approbation. :rolleyes:
My reason for having no wish to debate with you further, is because you base your debating 'style' on extreme repetition without substance. We would simply go around in circles for days, and I've better things to do.
I would just point out before I end all communication with you that the French were invaded by a recognised (although hateful) army, NOT unelected terrorists. The Germans did not occupy the country to try to stabilise the country as the Allied forces are doing. The French Resistance were brave men fighting for their fellow countrymen. The Taliban are fighting for themselves DESPITE their fellow countrymen.
Just to save you time, I will not be reading your reply if you wish to post one.
Also if I lived in Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc I would put my religion above them countries also.
I am not sure why people see this as some kind of disgraceful act.
Because religious mumbo-jumbo aside it is not your Faith that provides you with running water, electricity, infrastructure, free at point of service healthcare, out of work benefits if you are unfortunate enough to become unemployed, a state pension, etc.
Those things are provided collectively to us all by "The Country".
That you would put your faith before your nation under those circumstances is utterly disgusting.
LOL a traitor.. I support muslims fighting occupation all over the world. If you wanna call me a traitor then go ahead, my religion is more important to me then place of birth.
As for elections in Afghanistan. How can anyone give elections under occupation any credibilty??
Comments
Wow that's going of on a tangent.
9/11 I'll agree with, the others no. Given the fact that America is the biggest culprit known to man for their false-flag instigating knee-jerk military wars (Vietnam anyone?) doesn't exactly exonerate AQ or OBL. OBL was a former CIA-asset and was a significant ally in amongst foreign U.S. military operations. As was Saddam.
9/11 smacks of (IMO) AQ aided, funded or abetted by the U.S. - with deliberate flaws and/or inconsistencies with the U.S. intelligence.
AQ/Taliban are just the 'boogeymen', the scapegoat - the façade face of a largely unknown enemy.
The biggest threat to peace in the middle-east and biggest culprit of crimes and terrorism against humanity is Israel, but of course we'll never combat our own terrorism.
tin what way was taliban rise to power against international law/
elections does not confer legitimacy as a matter of autamacity.
legitimacy arrives with respect to a democracy from a place of free fair honest transparent elections.
no one has doubted the legitimacy of the hamas victory unlike gw bushs 2 victories.
but i have to say democracy as we know it is not the be all and end all.
So I guess all them White UK nationals who dont support british soldiers invading other lands are traitors also right??
Still no answer to my question.
Ask your mum to help you.
Stop making things up.
I don't support us being there in the first place (or Iraq for that matter) - but as we are there, my support is for our troops and them being properly equipped and funded and brought home as soon as possible. They are not responsible for the misguided games Blair and Bush played. But we have a moral responsibility to support our troops and to not leave the country in complete chaos and just pull out. My support is certainly not for the Taliban.
The Taliban 'government' was not recognised by the UN. Only Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Pakistan recognised the Taliban government (even that changed after 9/11).
Erm, no. Because they put their country ahead of their religion, in fact most dont have any religion. All they do is oppose a decision by their country. That is different to placing religion or ideology ahead of nationality.
Yes may be so your religion is more important you than your place of birth. May I ask why live in a country that is not highly populated with Muslims?
You may be born here, but nothing stops you from going back.
Wow sheer ignorance on display here. Because a poster is Muslim you automatically assumed they weren't somehow British, furthermore go "back", back where? What magical country is Islam exclusive to, Muslim-land? :rolleyes:
Back to reading the Daily Mail...
lol go back where? I was born in the UK and so was my parents. Also if I lived in Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc I would put my religion above them countries also.
I am not sure why people see this as some kind of disgraceful act and find it pretty funny to be honest.
Just seems that many people, politicians in the west cannot grasp the idea that muslims living in the UK associate themselves closer to muslims around the world then queen and country.
I did NOT say or assume that s/he is not British. Where? Wherever they want to live.
I don't mind Muslims living in the country and don't have any problems with Muslims. I am ashamed that people in our country does not respect our soldiers who just returned. Remember, the government ordered them to fight, and the soldiers were doing their job.
Quote;
You even acknowledge that the poster is ethnically British but go on to insinuate (s)he should go elsewhere.
Back-pedal all you want...It's clear what you meant. :rolleyes:
To be honest although the muslims protesting had a right to do so (as long as it was non violent). I have said before on other topics that I do not think it is a good idea to do so. It just brings more pressure and hate on muslims living in the UK.
I agree. I also think that is exactly what these groups are after. They should be ignored, dont give them media coverage. How much are their rants worth if their audience is only the hundred odd folk in the vicinity at the time
Islam, even the supposed Moderate Islam we hear a lot about but see very little of, is irreconcilable with any notion or concept of what it means to be British.
I am not talking about ethnicity here.
I am talking about morality, law, social structures.
His nationality is another matter.
Assuming the poster is a British National I have no problem with his living in this country.
But the kid gloves and appeasement approach as regards Islam, and indeed Judaism in some areas, needs to stop.
Halal butchery is illegal under current animal slaughter legislation (I forget the name used to describe this barbarity by the followers of Judaism - but the principle remains the same), yet Muslims are allowed to continue in violation of these laws.
A report in, IIRC The Guardian, about a year or so ago clearly demonstrated that a Sharia Court had returned a verdict in an inheritance case where the daughter was afforded less than a full share of the inheritance just because of her gender. This is contrary to both British and European Law.
This is not only religious discrimination - treating one group differently because of their religious views - but it is also gender discrimination.
This is unacceptable, it is intolerable and it will only fuel religious and racial tension and make further conflict more likely.
So, as far as I am concerned, any British National Muslims are more than welcome to remain in this country as is their right, and Non-British Muslims are welcome to come to this country as long as they follow the due immigration process under one simple proviso: One Land, One Law, One Official Language.
Anything less is in some form or other discrimination, and I oppose it.
All The Best
I couldn't really care less if you think I've 'stormed off', as I am not exactly seeking your approbation. :rolleyes:
My reason for having no wish to debate with you further, is because you base your debating 'style' on extreme repetition without substance. We would simply go around in circles for days, and I've better things to do.
I would just point out before I end all communication with you that the French were invaded by a recognised (although hateful) army, NOT unelected terrorists. The Germans did not occupy the country to try to stabilise the country as the Allied forces are doing. The French Resistance were brave men fighting for their fellow countrymen. The Taliban are fighting for themselves DESPITE their fellow countrymen.
Just to save you time, I will not be reading your reply if you wish to post one.
Because religious mumbo-jumbo aside it is not your Faith that provides you with running water, electricity, infrastructure, free at point of service healthcare, out of work benefits if you are unfortunate enough to become unemployed, a state pension, etc.
Those things are provided collectively to us all by "The Country".
That you would put your faith before your nation under those circumstances is utterly disgusting.
All The Best
Britain had someone using very similar tactics to you in WW2 - William Joyce aka Lord Haw Haw.
He didn't get anywhere either.
You really must take us for simpletons with your use of the word 'we' and 'our country'. :rolleyes: Who on earth do you think you are fooling?
Have you considered moving to a Muslim country
Why would you suggest that?