Not sure it was an "extra" million! I think it is the same audience who are taking advantage of Timeshift. The series has apparently received the same average audience as other series' albeit being very slightly down.
I meant an extra million on top of the published ratings, not an extra million viewers that didn't watch the show previously!
Haven't there been like an extra million views per episode, on average, thanks to iPlayer? I wonder how the official ratings would stand if they were factored in.
I Player views to date:
Eleventh Hour - 2.14
Beast Below - 1.62
VOTD - 1.44
Time of Angels - 1.51
Flesh & Stone - 1.39
Vampires of Venice - 1.32
Amy's Choice - 1.51
Hungry Earth - 1.22
Cold Blood - 1.13
Vincent - 1.15
Lodger - 1.69
Pandorica Opens - 1.26
Big Bang - 0.78
Notes:
Episodes 1 - 11 were available from the date they aired till yesterday, thus earlier episodes have a slight advantage in terms of being available to view for longer.
The figure for the Big Bang represents it's first TWO days available only, Pandorica Opens first week only.
eta, for comparison.
most i player views for an episode in the specials year was 0.81 for the end of time part 1
most i player views for an episode in series 4 was 0.84, for Journey's End, which in itself a few hundred thousand above other episodes that series, bar The Stolen Earth, which had over 700k.
Series 5 is just so different. RTD has a completly different style to Moffat, going for epicness. Each final got bigger, to the extent where we had all his spin offs and charactors return for a major battle with the deadliest enemies and Davros. Moffat seems more comfortable writing smaller stories, relying on the psycological aspects more than spectical. People probably prefer the epicness to that.
The charactors are completly different too. RTD continously brought back everyone. In series 5 everyone was new.
I'll admit it did take me some time to get used to the change and love the show as much as I used to but thats only because it was such a change. The show has survived so long because it is constantly changing. Matt Smith is superb as the Doctor and falling ratings should be blamed on the ridiculous way the BBC insisted on schedualing the show each week.
Like I said, though, my experience is the exact opposite. Everyone I have spoken to think Series 5 is the best yet. They all love Matt Smith and they all love Karen Gillan.
If the people you spoke to are friends, isn't it possible they have similar likes/dislikes? That would be likely, as it would explain why you are friends with them. Similarly, my friends are likely to have similar tastes to me and the result is all my friends loved this year as much as I did.
Think of it this way; I also know a bunch of people who have hated all 5 years of Doctor Who and probably would have hated all 31 years of it, had I known them all that time.
Such evidence says more about social circles than it does about the overall performance of the show.
It's a fair question that you ask and I shall do my best to answer it!
No, it wasn't just friends who spoke to me about this, though those that did are bigger fans than me, some of them go location spotting, some do blogs on every episode. Others were people from where I work who like watching Doctor Who, aren't fans as such, but the like watching it and they didn't like this series much either but as I said originally they liked certain episodes. Others were family, some were even people I speak to not very often but when I do we end up talking Who! So it's quite a variation and as I also said, it wasn't a case of me going up and asking, in the case of work colleagues they know I like the show so they talk to me about it. Sometimes they ask my opinion but I prefer to hear their's first because I always feel my opinion may influence what they tell me about their own views.
Off course, I'd be really happy if someone did walk up to me and say they enjoyed the series. Maybe after next series they will, maybe I will too and I will be enthusing about it as much as the people who took the poll! I certainly hope so! :D:D
The poll of all the new who series clearly put Series 5 as a clear winner. Can't argue with those facts.
Well you can't argue with that poll, but the same would've happened with any season directly after it's ending. Give it time and there will be a more realistic outlook on S5's place in the grand scheme of things, any poll held now is always going to be hugely biased in it's favour.
Well you can't argue with that poll, but the same would've happened with any season directly after it's ending. Give it time and there will be a more realistic outlook on S5's place in the grand scheme of things, any poll held now is always going to be hugely biased in it's favour.
element of truth there. has to be said. It's like the Mighty 200 poll in DWM, which showed the average scores for almost all nu who episodes had taken a downward turn since they were rated at the end of their respective series.
Not that this means series 5 won't still be as popular come next year, of course, but how ones views an episode, never mind a series, is not static.
Look at Midnight, it was pretty unpopular on here when it aired, relatively speaking, but in the recent survivor game on here earlier this year it actually ended up winning.....
Well you can't argue with that poll, but the same would've happened with any season directly after it's ending. Give it time and there will be a more realistic outlook on S5's place in the grand scheme of things, any poll held now is always going to be hugely biased in it's favour.
Of course, but doesn't the poll demonstrate that currently, at this specific time, series 5 is 'as popular as it seems' (to quote the OP). And if this is the case then what are people arguing about??
Look at Midnight, it was pretty unpopular on here when it aired, relatively speaking, but in the recent survivor game on here earlier this year it actually ended up winning.....
The RTD era was effectively a soap opera, Eastenders in time and space if you like, albeit a soap opera that was, more often than not, very well written, very well produced and very entertaining, but to all intents and purposes it wasn't REAL Doctor Who.
Series 5 is, for the first time since the Classic Series, REAL Doctor Who.
Is Series 5 as popular as it seems? I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should be.
yeah only 0.64m. the highest rating ever achieved by bbc hd.
that's my point, The Big Bang would have to exceed that by 30% to stop this episode being the worst final episode (in terms of ratings) in Nu Who history.
The RTD era was effectively a soap opera, Eastenders in time and space if you like, albeit a soap opera that was, more often than not, very well written, very well produced and very entertaining, but to all intents and purposes it wasn't REAL Doctor Who.
Series 5 is, for the first time since the Classic Series, REAL Doctor Who.
Is Series 5 as popular as it seems? I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should be.
"REAL" doctor who got cancelled in the 80s. Sorry, but wouldn't want that to happen again.
"REAL" doctor who got cancelled in the 80s. Sorry, but wouldn't want that to happen again.
REAL Doctor Who continued throughout the 90's and early 00's in the novels and audios, which were to all intents and purposes a non-televised continuation of Classic Who..
I think this is a moot question. Given that it's doubtful that the BBC will make the same mistake again and install someone of the nature of Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy again, I think it's a foregone conclusion that the 'current' Doctor will always be liked more than the 'previous' Doctor, whoever that may be; and so the 'current' show will always be more popular than the 'previous' show..
It happened with Ecclestone to Tennant, again with Tennant to Smith and will happen again with Smith to next.
I was a die hard DW fan up to about 1981 or so... yup, I'm that old and I was over the moon when they decided to bring it back. Chris Eccleston was a breath of fresh air, as were the stories that followed. Tennant was an excellent Doctor, again with an excellent storyline, then...
what happened?
I am by no means going to slate the new actors Matt Smith and Karen Gillan, they have a job to do and they're doing to the best of their abilities, which in most part is very good. Especially the last two episodes. And that's where it started and finished. Everything before that was pointless and unsatisfying. A rift in time that seems to have a link to a certain Doctor companion? HELLO! Are we in a time loop? Didn't that happen with Billie Pipers character? Not to mention Donna's... wait a second... OMG! I know what's going to happen in the next series!!!!
that's my point, The Big Bang would have to exceed that by 30% to stop this episode being the worst final episode (in terms of ratings) in Nu Who history.
Presumably you were one of those ringing the death knell in 2007 as well, when the series average dipped to 7.55m.
Luckily nobody took the doom-mongers seriously back then either.
I was a die hard DW fan up to about 1981 or so... yup, I'm that old and I was over the moon when they decided to bring it back. Chris Eccleston was a breath of fresh air, as were the stories that followed. Tennant was an excellent Doctor, again with an excellent storyline, then...
what happened?
I am by no means going to slate the new actors Matt Smith and Karen Gillan, they have a job to do and they're doing to the best of their abilities, which in most part is very good. Especially the last two episodes. And that's where it started and finished. Everything before that was pointless and unsatisfying. A rift in time that seems to have a link to a certain Doctor companion? HELLO! Are we in a time loop? Didn't that happen with Billie Pipers character? Not to mention Donna's... wait a second... OMG! I know what's going to happen in the next series!!!!
Sack the present writer, bring back originality.
There are very few 'original' ideas in any genre, and rarely in science fiction. It's how they're worked by the writer. After all with a series running over 40 years, surprise! you see things more than once. All the same old enemies, all the 'standard' time loop/stuck in the past till something happens/groundhog day/abandoned space station/alien being worshipped like a god/alien helping rebels defeat enemies (again). Like the repeated end-of-the-universe-and-it's-bigger-than-EVER finales we've sat through the last few years? The Titanic in Space? The flying bus? Silent Running on Mars? It's all down to the writer, and as far as I'm concerned we have a fantastic writer now using subtelty more than in your face, which gets very wearing, and twists and turns that keep you glued to it. With the specials It was getting tired and self-indulgent, both RTD and Tennant, and is now far more compelling. Yes there are some lesser moments, but then aren't there always.
And as you seem to know, what's going to happen next series?
I find anecdotal evidence always a bit suspicious (i.e. if you don't like the series, some of your like-minded friends won't like it, and vice versa if you like it). Now I'm someone who loved the RTD era and the SM era so far, and what do you know so do most of the people I talk to;).
Anyway, I have talked to "strangers" who absolutely love the new series, and I have talked to people who have given up on Who now, because they don't like it anymore (in both cases fair enough).
Doesn't meant though that this is are representation of the UK as a whole, as I would be very arrogant to assume that the tiny proportion of people I know and meet are a good indication of how this series was overall perceived.
This has nothing to do with either liking/disliking DT. TEH had a good audience figure but that tailed off as the stories became less interesting for a lot of viewers who aren't necessarily Classic Who fans.
I also think that MS has been excellent , however as I've mentioned elsewhere there were too many changes made to this series, as though those in charge were trying to distance themselves from what had gone before but in the process doing the same to the viewers.
You won't get unbiased results by organising a poll on DS, it will always be people who care enough to go and vote, which may leave out people who did watch, but who feel less strongly about it. RTD made DW more mainstream, got a lot of people watching who did not look for fantasy and scifi on TV. I have a feeling Moff may have taken it back to a niche product.
Well, I know it's only anecdotal but where I live the villagers spontaneously ran out into the streets after the finale cheering and clapping. An impromptu carnival and street party got underway and grown men were to be seen weeping with joy as they recalled their favourite bits of the series with complete strangers. But that's just one village.
The series seems like it's done OK. The finale figures are clearly not stellar, but who knows what was (realistically) expected by BBC execs, given all the various factors? Can't see any reason to think fatal wounds have been inflicted. Do we know that tail off happened solely because "the stories became less interesting for a lot of viewers". Has that research been done? It's probably just a guess. People are fickle and come and go. But let's suppose it's true. The remaining audience scored it highly on AI, so if the core audience of the show is 5-7 million, it does well in its slot, gets the sort of professional critical reception that it has done this year, is exported lucratively round the world - where's the problem? There isn't enough info to know if there's a trend of dislike against the current style. Next year will tell.
I would take internet forum polls with a huge pinch of salt. A bit of fun, but not research. Not even close.
You won't get unbiased results by organising a poll on DS, it will always be people who care enough to go and vote, which may leave out people who did watch, but who feel less strongly about it. RTD made DW more mainstream, got a lot of people watching who did not look for fantasy and scifi on TV. I have a feeling Moff may have taken it back to a niche product.
Yes, I think i agree with you. Moff has given us "raw" Who while RTD gave us "mainstream" Who. If RTD had introduced DW in 2005 like Moff has reintroduced it now, I have a feeling that the show would not be having its 6th series next year.
Now DW is established, it is logical for a writer to want to restore the "raw" sci-fi elements as Moff did this year.
However, part of me thinks, that while this of course is perfectly acceptable, and I, for one did enjoy the series, I think he should have done this more gradually throughout the series this year rather than "BOOM! This is my programme now, Look how different it is!!".
Yes, the series was popular. Yes, overnights were lower but the averages retained due to timeshift, and yes the AI's were high.
But, could it have achieved more? Yes.
After The Eleventh Hour, the second episode "The Beast Below" was a bit dull. It was also only 41 minutes long and felt rushed. This was a bad choice for episode 2 like "End of The World" was for series 1.
If viewers were disappointed by this episode then it may have changed "Some" people's opinions about the show.
The series opener is always going to be a "curiosity" situation and is likely to achieve good ratings. Episode 2 though is what possibly keeps a viewer interested.
Comments
I meant an extra million on top of the published ratings, not an extra million viewers that didn't watch the show previously!
Oops! Sorry for the misunderstanding! Spank my bum 'til Friday!!
I Player views to date:
Eleventh Hour - 2.14
Beast Below - 1.62
VOTD - 1.44
Time of Angels - 1.51
Flesh & Stone - 1.39
Vampires of Venice - 1.32
Amy's Choice - 1.51
Hungry Earth - 1.22
Cold Blood - 1.13
Vincent - 1.15
Lodger - 1.69
Pandorica Opens - 1.26
Big Bang - 0.78
Notes:
Episodes 1 - 11 were available from the date they aired till yesterday, thus earlier episodes have a slight advantage in terms of being available to view for longer.
The figure for the Big Bang represents it's first TWO days available only, Pandorica Opens first week only.
eta, for comparison.
most i player views for an episode in the specials year was 0.81 for the end of time part 1
most i player views for an episode in series 4 was 0.84, for Journey's End, which in itself a few hundred thousand above other episodes that series, bar The Stolen Earth, which had over 700k.
The charactors are completly different too. RTD continously brought back everyone. In series 5 everyone was new.
I'll admit it did take me some time to get used to the change and love the show as much as I used to but thats only because it was such a change. The show has survived so long because it is constantly changing. Matt Smith is superb as the Doctor and falling ratings should be blamed on the ridiculous way the BBC insisted on schedualing the show each week.
It's a fair question that you ask and I shall do my best to answer it!
No, it wasn't just friends who spoke to me about this, though those that did are bigger fans than me, some of them go location spotting, some do blogs on every episode. Others were people from where I work who like watching Doctor Who, aren't fans as such, but the like watching it and they didn't like this series much either but as I said originally they liked certain episodes. Others were family, some were even people I speak to not very often but when I do we end up talking Who! So it's quite a variation and as I also said, it wasn't a case of me going up and asking, in the case of work colleagues they know I like the show so they talk to me about it. Sometimes they ask my opinion but I prefer to hear their's first because I always feel my opinion may influence what they tell me about their own views.
Off course, I'd be really happy if someone did walk up to me and say they enjoyed the series. Maybe after next series they will, maybe I will too and I will be enthusing about it as much as the people who took the poll! I certainly hope so!
element of truth there. has to be said. It's like the Mighty 200 poll in DWM, which showed the average scores for almost all nu who episodes had taken a downward turn since they were rated at the end of their respective series.
Not that this means series 5 won't still be as popular come next year, of course, but how ones views an episode, never mind a series, is not static.
Look at Midnight, it was pretty unpopular on here when it aired, relatively speaking, but in the recent survivor game on here earlier this year it actually ended up winning.....
Of course, but doesn't the poll demonstrate that currently, at this specific time, series 5 is 'as popular as it seems' (to quote the OP). And if this is the case then what are people arguing about??
it's still rubbish, though... :rolleyes:
oh no it's not!:D
Series 5 is, for the first time since the Classic Series, REAL Doctor Who.
Is Series 5 as popular as it seems? I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should be.
Seconded! I adore Midnight! That episode just held my attention like no other. And DT was excellent in it, better even possibly than in HM/FOB IMO.
that's my point, The Big Bang would have to exceed that by 30% to stop this episode being the worst final episode (in terms of ratings) in Nu Who history.
"REAL" doctor who got cancelled in the 80s. Sorry, but wouldn't want that to happen again.
REAL Doctor Who continued throughout the 90's and early 00's in the novels and audios, which were to all intents and purposes a non-televised continuation of Classic Who..
It happened with Ecclestone to Tennant, again with Tennant to Smith and will happen again with Smith to next.
Foregone conclusion.
D
I was a die hard DW fan up to about 1981 or so... yup, I'm that old
what happened?
I am by no means going to slate the new actors Matt Smith and Karen Gillan, they have a job to do and they're doing to the best of their abilities, which in most part is very good. Especially the last two episodes. And that's where it started and finished. Everything before that was pointless and unsatisfying. A rift in time that seems to have a link to a certain Doctor companion? HELLO! Are we in a time loop? Didn't that happen with Billie Pipers character? Not to mention Donna's... wait a second... OMG! I know what's going to happen in the next series!!!!
Sack the present writer, bring back originality.
Presumably you were one of those ringing the death knell in 2007 as well, when the series average dipped to 7.55m.
Luckily nobody took the doom-mongers seriously back then either.
There are very few 'original' ideas in any genre, and rarely in science fiction. It's how they're worked by the writer. After all with a series running over 40 years, surprise! you see things more than once. All the same old enemies, all the 'standard' time loop/stuck in the past till something happens/groundhog day/abandoned space station/alien being worshipped like a god/alien helping rebels defeat enemies (again). Like the repeated end-of-the-universe-and-it's-bigger-than-EVER finales we've sat through the last few years? The Titanic in Space? The flying bus? Silent Running on Mars? It's all down to the writer, and as far as I'm concerned we have a fantastic writer now using subtelty more than in your face, which gets very wearing, and twists and turns that keep you glued to it. With the specials It was getting tired and self-indulgent, both RTD and Tennant, and is now far more compelling. Yes there are some lesser moments, but then aren't there always.
And as you seem to know, what's going to happen next series?
Anyway, I have talked to "strangers" who absolutely love the new series, and I have talked to people who have given up on Who now, because they don't like it anymore (in both cases fair enough).
Doesn't meant though that this is are representation of the UK as a whole, as I would be very arrogant to assume that the tiny proportion of people I know and meet are a good indication of how this series was overall perceived.
I also think that MS has been excellent , however as I've mentioned elsewhere there were too many changes made to this series, as though those in charge were trying to distance themselves from what had gone before but in the process doing the same to the viewers.
The series seems like it's done OK. The finale figures are clearly not stellar, but who knows what was (realistically) expected by BBC execs, given all the various factors? Can't see any reason to think fatal wounds have been inflicted. Do we know that tail off happened solely because "the stories became less interesting for a lot of viewers". Has that research been done? It's probably just a guess. People are fickle and come and go. But let's suppose it's true. The remaining audience scored it highly on AI, so if the core audience of the show is 5-7 million, it does well in its slot, gets the sort of professional critical reception that it has done this year, is exported lucratively round the world - where's the problem? There isn't enough info to know if there's a trend of dislike against the current style. Next year will tell.
I would take internet forum polls with a huge pinch of salt. A bit of fun, but not research. Not even close.
Yes, I think i agree with you. Moff has given us "raw" Who while RTD gave us "mainstream" Who. If RTD had introduced DW in 2005 like Moff has reintroduced it now, I have a feeling that the show would not be having its 6th series next year.
Now DW is established, it is logical for a writer to want to restore the "raw" sci-fi elements as Moff did this year.
However, part of me thinks, that while this of course is perfectly acceptable, and I, for one did enjoy the series, I think he should have done this more gradually throughout the series this year rather than "BOOM! This is my programme now, Look how different it is!!".
Yes, the series was popular. Yes, overnights were lower but the averages retained due to timeshift, and yes the AI's were high.
But, could it have achieved more? Yes.
After The Eleventh Hour, the second episode "The Beast Below" was a bit dull. It was also only 41 minutes long and felt rushed. This was a bad choice for episode 2 like "End of The World" was for series 1.
If viewers were disappointed by this episode then it may have changed "Some" people's opinions about the show.
The series opener is always going to be a "curiosity" situation and is likely to achieve good ratings. Episode 2 though is what possibly keeps a viewer interested.