I'm no body language expert, I am a psychology student, 4th year in, of course I've studied some body language within that and human behaviour. I intend to go on to master forensic rather than social psychology, so unless he wants to go on a killing rampage, I'll leave his state of mind alone for now.
What it all comes down to here is personal opinion and everyone is entitled to one, nobody has the right to shout anyone down. Even 'professionals' and 'experts' look at things from their perspective and voice their 'opinion' Nobody is infallible. During BBLB one body language expert said there was a definite attraction and less than a week later another said there wasn't. So even if you got a professional opinion, it doesn't mean theyir opinion is more accurate than yours, nor would it make you change your mind and quite frankly, why should it.
True, it has to b said, very true, Particularly whereby experts are not always in agreement whether from a psychological pov or from a body language pov.
It does not invalidate a person's personal opinion, especially when they take time to explain the reasons why. And that works all ways, ie: both sides of the coin. We are all entitled to our own opinions without being told we shouldn't be giving them.
Just for you lollycoops. Firstly, welcome.
a mutual friend, a psychiatric nurse, described her as a 'psychopath'. I laughed and told him to stop being so melodramatic, so he then outlined Narcissistic Personality Disorder for me. It fit this friend of mine to a t, and it also seems to fit Josie to a t.The clinical description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder references:
Devoid of empathy, is unable or unwilling to acknowledge or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
Constantly envious of others, or believes that others feel the same way about him/her;
Arrogant, haughty behaviour and attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted or confronted.
.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
He does have that cold, calculating, steely presence about him - you can even 'feel' it watching on a tv screen, a real sense of detachment. Christ, just realised how mental I sound !!:eek::D
Yep....he kisses Josie like it’s a chore or duty...and when he talks about how he 'loves Josie' he doesn't seem sincere and imo he always comes across quite apathetic.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Josie's relationship with Andrew was BLATANTLY all about massaging her ego; crystal clear that one. I think she tried a few times to develop female friendships - she had surface ties with Corin and Jo too, but her personality does not allow those friendships to extend to any depth. Almost all of her conversations with all three women were about her and JJ. All of her associations are a means to an end for her.
And may I just say, I'm delighted for your daughter and her boyfriend, but I seen no relevance at all to what we were discussing about JJJ Are you suggesting they aren't sharing a bedroom in the apartment and may have sex at a later date when they return to live with one of their parents
Just for you lollycoops. Firstly, welcome.
In the very early weeks of BB11, Josie was sending off alarm bells for me. I knew a girl very well when I was younger who was utterly charming and held court in any room she was in. But she had an incredibly cold, lack of empathy when things didn't go her away. As we got older, a mutual friend, a psychiatric nurse, described her as a 'psychopath'. I laughed and told him to stop being so melodramatic, so he then outlined Narcissistic Personality Disorder for me. It fit this friend of mine to a t, and it also seems to fit Josie to a t. In particular, her attitude towards Caoimhe, her actions towards Andrew, her reaction when JJ tried to leave by the fire exit "stop making me look bad", and her absolute and dogged refusal to accept that he didn't have sexual feelings for her.
The clinical description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder references:
Devoid of empathy, is unable or unwilling to acknowledge or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
Constantly envious of others, or believes that others feel the same way about him/her;
Arrogant, haughty behaviour and attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted or confronted.
Josie's incredibly inappropriate reactions to certain situations have had red flags flying so hard they've nearly taken my eyes out. Caoimhe is the obvious example but, even in the documentary, her reaction to JJ's criticism of her diet, her reaction to that overweight woman who spilled her guts (eewww) to her on the footpath, her reaction to everyone else's reaction to the Randy Mare idea; I could go on and on and on and everything, for me, points only in one direction.
I dont think she's a psychopath, I think she just doesn't know how to react in some situations and ends up laughing inappropriately. JJ crying over stupid things I can forgive her for laughing at:D The Keeva situation, I could totally understand Josie's reaction to so can't hold that against her either.
I dont think she's a psychopath, I think she just doesn't know how to react in some situations and ends up laughing inappropriately. JJ crying over stupid things I can forgive her for laughing at:D The Keeva situation, I could totally understand Josie's reaction to so can't hold that against her either.
All psychopaths are narcissists, but all narcissists are not psychopaths; I don't think she's a psychopath either, but I do think she has an associated personality disorder - genuinely, I've very personal experience of this and she is EXACTLY the same.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Josie completely manipulated Andrew who clearly fancied her. We all saw how seriously he took on the part of pretending to 'be Josie's new man' - in an attempt for Josie to make JJ jealous.
It was also an attempt at her controlling a new housemate - one that could be useful to her - both for the above, and for projecting the impression of the 'lovely, kind, caring ,motherly Josie'. When underneath, she's pretty calculating, cold and will stop at nothing if someone (ie: sunshine, JJ2, Keeva) stands in here way. She has the ability to disarm people, lulling them into a false sense of security (JJ2 and Keeva being example, and when the time was right, she did what she could to dispense of them),.
Patsy I know will read my words with shared interest.
Josie completely manipulated Andrew who clearly fancied her. We all saw how seriously he took on the part of pretending to 'be Josie's new man' - in an attempt for Josie to make JJ jealous.
It was also an attempt at her controlling a new housemate - one that could be useful to her - both for the above, and for projecting the impression of the 'lovely, kind, caring ,motherly Josie'. When underneath, she's pretty calculating, cold and will stop at nothing if someone (ie: sunshine, JJ2, Keeva) stands in here way. She has the ability to disarm people, lulling them into a false sense of security (JJ2 and Keeva being example, and when the time was right, she did what she could to dispense of them),.
Patsy I know will read my words with shared interest.
I am honoured to see things in the very same way as you
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Are we discussing your daughters relationship or JJJ
To be fair to JJ he hasn't done anything on TV that would make me think it's a real love affair, he's always treated Josie as a friend, kissed her like she was his aunt, cuddled her with a look on his face that said 'he wasn't comfortable being that close to her' and said many times she was like a sister to him. Josie on the other hand, realising there is money to be made decided to join the JJJ fans, and try to give them what they want. I'm not sure JJ is comfortable with the situation, he seems hell bent on not playing along, he's giving nothing to the JJJ fans, but I'm sure he must have a little giggle to himself when he reflects on how bl00dy gullible some of the UK BB fans are.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?
What has your daughters relationship got to do with this thread? We are talking about a couple who are selling a 'romance" If you asked your daughter and her boyfriend to pose for a photo do you think the guy would feel uncomfortable and awkward giving your daughter a cuddle? If a magazine offered them 10 grand to pose for a picture of them kissing, or looking into each others eyes, would they take the dosh but not deliver as he's to shy to show affection? You obviously believe your daughter and her guy are in a relationship and don't need to see them kiss or grope because there is chemistry between them, the way they look at each other, the way they smile at each other, how they communicate...............There is nothing in the JJJ's behaviour that says they fancy each other, no looks, no little smiles, and absolutely no communication. your daughter spends a lot of time with her boyfriend even the holidays. the JJJ's spend a lot of time apart, and they appear to like it that way.
I dont think she's a psychopath, I think she just doesn't know how to react in some situations and ends up laughing inappropriately. JJ crying over stupid things I can forgive her for laughing at:D The Keeva situation, I could totally understand Josie's reaction to so can't hold that against her either.
Keeva wasn't interested in JJ she had a boyfriend, but IMO Josie saw what many of us saw, JJ liked Keeva in a different way to how he liked her...Josie didn't stand a chance while she was in the house, that's why she lied about what happened, turned the other HM's against her until Keeva felt so uncomfortable she had to leave.
I understand her reaction, Keeva is everything she would like to be, so she felt she had to bring her down a peg or two.... plain nastiness IMO
Are we discussing your daughters relationship or JJJ
That's so annoying people should just talk about the HMs..nobody cares about anyone else, not interested in brothers/husbands/cousins or daughters!
just talk about Josie and JJ, who cares if your aunt Fannys boyfriend makes her sleep in the spareroom
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Apart from the very obvious, ie; we are discussing 2 people who appear to be in a very contrived partnership, for financial gain, I bet you haven't seen your daughter picking her partner's nose, squeezing his pimples, hearing him tell her that he loves her and only sees her as a very close friend.;) Not that it matters what the relationship is between your daughter and her partner is: they aren't what we are discussing.
We are discussing John James and Josie, 2 people who have opened up themselves for public scrutiny and who appear to be having a pretend relationship for nothing more than milking money from those who desperately want to believe that their favourites on the show are in love. That is the point that most 'non believers' are aggrieved about, the fact that JJJ appear very much, to be milking something that others (their loyal fans) may believe in, the fairytale ending. They - JJJ - are taking advantage basically.
That is the topic John James and Josie, not forum members' family.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Not quite sure what point your trying to make here. There has been reasoned disscussion as to why the majority of people on this particular thread feel that there is little or no chemistry between JJ and Josie. Those theorys have been backed up with compelling arguments, now whether you choose to agree or disagree with the points made is of course your perogative but it might be useful if you were to put forward a sensible counter argument as to why we may be wrong. I and I dare say the majority of the people posting on this particular subject are pretty open to hearing others opinions. Thats what makes it fun
Apart from the very obvious, ie; we are discussing 2 people who appear to be in a very contrived partnership, for financial gain, I bet you haven't seen your daughter picking her partner's nose, squeezing his pimples, hearing him tell her that he loves her and only sees her as a very close friend.;) Not that it matters what the relationship is between your daughter and her partner is: they aren't what we are discussing.
We are discussing John James and Josie, 2 people who have opened up themselves for public scrutiny and who appear to be having a pretend relationship for nothing more than milking money from those who desperately want to believe that their favourites on the show are in love. That is the point that most 'non believers' are aggrieved about, the fact that JJJ appear very much, to be milking something that others (their loyal fans) may believe in, the fairytale ending. They - JJJ - are taking advantage basically.
That is the topic John James and Josie, not forum members' family.
Absolutely spot on and I would go further and say they appear to crave the publicity...I think BB may have created a monster and its name is JJJ
Not quite sure what point your trying to make here. There has been reasoned disscussion as to why the majority of people on this particular thread feel that there is little or no chemistry between JJ and Josie. Those theorys have been backed up with compelling arguments, now whether you choose to agree or disagree with the points made is of course your perogative but it might be useful if you were to put forward a sensible counter argument as to why we may be wrong. I and I dare say the majority of the people posting on this particular subject are pretty open to hearing others opinions. Thats what makes it fun
Very valid point you have. Attempting to belittle the opinions of others, opinions which have been backed up with a great many very plausible reasons. As such, they are valid opinions and should not be mocked in the way Augusta has done.
If anything, it could be said that the non believers are actually, in their own way, 'watching out' for the fans - because the non fans don't like being being suckered and that's what many of us feel is happening. Loyalty might be misplaced for their pair of charlatans, and I strongly believe that is precisely what they are, for all the reasons I have given over the months on here.
Keeva wasn't interested in JJ she had a boyfriend, but IMO Josie saw what many of us saw, JJ liked Keeva in a different way to how he liked her...Josie didn't stand a chance while she was in the house, that's why she lied about what happened, turned the other HM's against her until Keeva felt so uncomfortable she had to leave.
I understand her reaction, Keeva is everything she would like to be, so she felt she had to bring her down a peg or two.... plain nastiness IMO
You don't have to be interested in someone to flirt with them. She did the same with Shabby. I don't think JJ fancied Keeva but I agree that they'd make a better couple as they're both such miserable buggers. Doomy and Gloomy indeed. As for Keeva being everything she would like to be.. what? vile?
Very valid point you have. Attempting to belittle the opinions of others, opinions which have been backed up with a great many very plausible reasons. As such, they are valid opinions and should not be mocked in the way Augusta has done.
If anything, it could be said that the non believers are actually, in their own way, 'watching out' for the fans - because the non fans don't like being being suckered and that's what many of us feel is happening. Loyalty might be misplaced for their pair of charlatans, and I strongly believe that is precisely what they are, for all the reasons I have given over the months on here.
Agreed, the thing is there is loyalty and then there is blind obsession where all reasoned arguments are pretty much off the table. I can understand it to a certain extent with the younger crowd, afterall who hasn't had crush on someone, so their blind devotion is understandable. Its the more "Mature" members that have surprised me most with their refusal to even consider for one moment that there may be something not quite right with the relationship.
I've never once said I'm one hundred percent right in my assumptions but would like to think I've given sensible arguments to back up the points I've made as have most of us. I haven't really seen the same courtesy been given the other way other than being called negative or to all intents and purposes an idiot :cool:
Comments
True, it has to b said, very true, Particularly whereby experts are not always in agreement whether from a psychological pov or from a body language pov.
It does not invalidate a person's personal opinion, especially when they take time to explain the reasons why. And that works all ways, ie: both sides of the coin. We are all entitled to our own opinions without being told we shouldn't be giving them.
When I watched BB I thought Josie was very empathic towards lots of her hm and certain situations.
Like 'adopting' andrew and looking after him as a little brother, rather than let him be typecast as the nerdy, geeky redhead boy that I initially saw. She was also initially very supportive of keeva after shabby left, again taking her under her wing and caring for her.
I do also love the logic of this thread in general.
According to the logic of this thread, my daughter must be having a purely platonic relationship with her best male friend at university, as both last year and this they have shared a house they do have seperate bedrooms, and have never kissed, groped or been openly affectionate in front of me, my husband or our daughter,
even though they both spent all of the summer with us, sharing her old bedroom.!!!
I must ask her about this, he cant really be her boyfriend can he?:)
Yep....he kisses Josie like it’s a chore or duty...and when he talks about how he 'loves Josie' he doesn't seem sincere and imo he always comes across quite apathetic.
Josie's relationship with Andrew was BLATANTLY all about massaging her ego; crystal clear that one. I think she tried a few times to develop female friendships - she had surface ties with Corin and Jo too, but her personality does not allow those friendships to extend to any depth. Almost all of her conversations with all three women were about her and JJ. All of her associations are a means to an end for her.
And may I just say, I'm delighted for your daughter and her boyfriend, but I seen no relevance at all to what we were discussing about JJJ
I dont think she's a psychopath, I think she just doesn't know how to react in some situations and ends up laughing inappropriately. JJ crying over stupid things I can forgive her for laughing at:D The Keeva situation, I could totally understand Josie's reaction to so can't hold that against her either.
All psychopaths are narcissists, but all narcissists are not psychopaths; I don't think she's a psychopath either, but I do think she has an associated personality disorder - genuinely, I've very personal experience of this and she is EXACTLY the same.
Josie completely manipulated Andrew who clearly fancied her. We all saw how seriously he took on the part of pretending to 'be Josie's new man' - in an attempt for Josie to make JJ jealous.
It was also an attempt at her controlling a new housemate - one that could be useful to her - both for the above, and for projecting the impression of the 'lovely, kind, caring ,motherly Josie'. When underneath, she's pretty calculating, cold and will stop at nothing if someone (ie: sunshine, JJ2, Keeva) stands in here way. She has the ability to disarm people, lulling them into a false sense of security (JJ2 and Keeva being example, and when the time was right, she did what she could to dispense of them),.
Patsy I know will read my words with shared interest.
I am honoured to see things in the very same way as you
Are we discussing your daughters relationship or JJJ
I am glad you said SOME.;)
What has your daughters relationship got to do with this thread? We are talking about a couple who are selling a 'romance" If you asked your daughter and her boyfriend to pose for a photo do you think the guy would feel uncomfortable and awkward giving your daughter a cuddle? If a magazine offered them 10 grand to pose for a picture of them kissing, or looking into each others eyes, would they take the dosh but not deliver as he's to shy to show affection? You obviously believe your daughter and her guy are in a relationship and don't need to see them kiss or grope because there is chemistry between them, the way they look at each other, the way they smile at each other, how they communicate...............There is nothing in the JJJ's behaviour that says they fancy each other, no looks, no little smiles, and absolutely no communication. your daughter spends a lot of time with her boyfriend even the holidays. the JJJ's spend a lot of time apart, and they appear to like it that way.
Keeva wasn't interested in JJ she had a boyfriend, but IMO Josie saw what many of us saw, JJ liked Keeva in a different way to how he liked her...Josie didn't stand a chance while she was in the house, that's why she lied about what happened, turned the other HM's against her until Keeva felt so uncomfortable she had to leave.
I understand her reaction, Keeva is everything she would like to be, so she felt she had to bring her down a peg or two.... plain nastiness IMO
just talk about Josie and JJ, who cares if your aunt Fannys boyfriend makes her sleep in the spareroom
Apart from the very obvious, ie; we are discussing 2 people who appear to be in a very contrived partnership, for financial gain, I bet you haven't seen your daughter picking her partner's nose, squeezing his pimples, hearing him tell her that he loves her and only sees her as a very close friend.;) Not that it matters what the relationship is between your daughter and her partner is: they aren't what we are discussing.
We are discussing John James and Josie, 2 people who have opened up themselves for public scrutiny and who appear to be having a pretend relationship for nothing more than milking money from those who desperately want to believe that their favourites on the show are in love. That is the point that most 'non believers' are aggrieved about, the fact that JJJ appear very much, to be milking something that others (their loyal fans) may believe in, the fairytale ending. They - JJJ - are taking advantage basically.
That is the topic John James and Josie, not forum members' family.
Not quite sure what point your trying to make here. There has been reasoned disscussion as to why the majority of people on this particular thread feel that there is little or no chemistry between JJ and Josie. Those theorys have been backed up with compelling arguments, now whether you choose to agree or disagree with the points made is of course your perogative but it might be useful if you were to put forward a sensible counter argument as to why we may be wrong. I and I dare say the majority of the people posting on this particular subject are pretty open to hearing others opinions. Thats what makes it fun
Absolutely spot on and I would go further and say they appear to crave the publicity...I think BB may have created a monster and its name is JJJ
Very valid point you have. Attempting to belittle the opinions of others, opinions which have been backed up with a great many very plausible reasons. As such, they are valid opinions and should not be mocked in the way Augusta has done.
If anything, it could be said that the non believers are actually, in their own way, 'watching out' for the fans - because the non fans don't like being being suckered and that's what many of us feel is happening. Loyalty might be misplaced for their pair of charlatans, and I strongly believe that is precisely what they are, for all the reasons I have given over the months on here.
You don't have to be interested in someone to flirt with them. She did the same with Shabby. I don't think JJ fancied Keeva but I agree that they'd make a better couple as they're both such miserable buggers. Doomy and Gloomy indeed. As for Keeva being everything she would like to be.. what? vile?
Agreed, the thing is there is loyalty and then there is blind obsession where all reasoned arguments are pretty much off the table. I can understand it to a certain extent with the younger crowd, afterall who hasn't had crush on someone, so their blind devotion is understandable. Its the more "Mature" members that have surprised me most with their refusal to even consider for one moment that there may be something not quite right with the relationship.
I've never once said I'm one hundred percent right in my assumptions but would like to think I've given sensible arguments to back up the points I've made as have most of us. I haven't really seen the same courtesy been given the other way other than being called negative or to all intents and purposes an idiot :cool:
http://twitter.com/#!/JohnJames_BBuk/status/27319950465
"hey guys just about to go on twit cam with mates from australia :-) x x x follow @GR187 x x x"
Geraint - http://twitter.com/#!/GR187
Not quite working yet, but they're trying again, lol....
How do you get on to the webcam link?
Hi
I was going to post the direct link when it happened,
but it looks like they're still having problems with the webcam.
Maybe it's not going to happen now...?
But if it does, I'll post the direct link
They've had two failed attempts so far:
http://twitcam.livestream.com/2dk64
http://twitcam.livestream.com/2dk6e
5mins ago...
http://twitter.com/#!/JohnJames_BBuk/status/27321033875
"trying to get on now be about 10 mintues longer lol sorry for everyone waiting x"
http://twitter.com/#!/sunshinemartyn/status/27320832498
@JohnJames_BBuk school and work (for me) starts in exactly 10 minutes lol good timing John!!
Thanks Sangreal for doing that, I'm not upto scratch on twitter and twit connections. Must make me a twit myself then. LOL