Yes. You are digging a deeper and deeper hole. I thought this should be pointed out to you in case you hadn't noticed.
And I care what these people have to offer? You turn up and say you're digging a hole, another I'm a troll and don't post to them and another who follows me around, says nothing and calls me names. This forum is really quite a thing.
It's a bit rich that loyal New Labour MP and ultra-poodle David Lammy (a former minister with responsibilty for universities!) is highlighting this issue.
They recently had 13 years in power to improve standards in schools in poor and deprived areas and they failed. They had 13 years to forcibly end any discrimination in elite universities and they failed.
From various studies, it's clear that the one thing that's stopping young people from poor and disadvantaged backgrounds from going to university is the fear of accruing large debts because of the introduction of tuition fees by New Labour.
And guess which New Labour MP and minister ceaselessly championed tuition fees? That's right, you've guessed it! It was none other than the bichon frise ultra-poodle himself, David Lammy.
He did nothing about this situation when he was in power and neither did he do anything about the causes of this unfortunate situation. He has no political credibilty whatsoever on this issue.
And I care what these people have to offer. You turn up and say you're digging a hole, another I'm a troll and don't post to them and another who follows me around, says nothing and calls me names. This forum is really quite a thing.
Mine was intended as relatively friendly advice. Plainly you can't take a hint. You seem to have an opinion slightly to the right of Oswald Moseley. I can see where you are coming from, but you're not making your point, as it's just not that simple. To just announce that black culture prevents Oxbridge entry is about the same as saying the sun shines cos it's on fire.
Now it's OK to follow me around the internet but it does get a bit tedious.
You're not wrong. I've been following you round the internet for years, apparently, and I'm still waiting for you to post something remotely intelligent.
It's a bit rich that loyal New Labour MP and ultra-poodle David Lammy (a former minister with responsibilty for universities!) is highlighting this issue.
They recently had 13 years in power to improve standards in schools in poor and deprived areas and they failed. They had 13 years to forcibly end any discrimination in elite universities and they failed.
From various studies, it's clear that the one thing that's stopping young people from poor and disadvantaged backgrounds from going to university is the fear of accruing large debts because of the introduction of tuition fees by New Labour.
And guess which New Labour MP and minister ceaselessly championed tuition fees? That's right, you've guessed it! It was none other than the bichon frise ultra-poodle himself, David Lammy.
He did nothing about this situation when he was in power and neither did he do anything about the causes of this unfortunate situation. He has no political credibilty whatsoever on this issue.
You make some excellent points in this post. One thing Labour should have done was make more partnerships between these elite universities (and universities in general) and inner-city schools. When I was in high school, we had loads of things like these. There should be more summer programmes so some of th bright kids and others can go and spend four weeks of their summer holidays at universities and be taught by some of the academics.
David Lammy is Harvard educated-- I wonder how much outreach work he did with the disadvantaged kids in Tottenham? I am heartily sick of "role models" for black and other working-class kids being athletes and entertainers.
It needs to start at year 4. Of course education is not for everyone, we know that. However, it's demoralising to think that some bright 9 year-old may not think of uni as an option for them because that's not what people from their area do after school.
Mine was intended as relatively friendly advice. Plainly you can't take a hint. You seem to have an opinion slightly to the right of Oswald Moseley. I can see where you are coming from, but you're not making your point, as it's just not that simple. To just announce that black culture prevents Oxbridge entry is about the same as saying the sun shines cos it's on fire.
You should read above pages 4-5 around 4.15 to 5pm today. All I got was abuse. If you could tell me why you think my views are brown shirt worthy then I would be happy to listen to the specifics, but I think you cannot.
You've already lost half the argument when you start labelling somebody that happens to holds diametrically opposed views to yourself as a 'troll'.
I don't mind people having views opposite to mine. Two posters who I respect, but don't agree with are Speak-Softly and ayrshireman. We rarely agree on anything, but they post intelligent, well-thought out and interesting things.
This person has not added anything other than complete bollocks to this debate, and then tried to insult people. I'm not bothered about winning arguments, but as you can go back and see, I've debated this topic and he has chosen to ignore everything I've said but attempt to bait.
You've already lost half the argument when you start labelling somebody that happens to holds diametrically opposed views to yourself as a 'troll'.
I think this person does not have different views from me, it simply does not know how to discuss and perhaps feels out of its depth so it attacks.. I have been called this many times in line with the many people who cannot deal with oppposing views.
I don't mind people having views opposite to mine. Two posters who I respect, but don't agree with are Speak-Softly and ayrshireman. We rarely agree on anything, but they post intelligent, well-thought out and interesting things.
This person has not added anything other than complete bollocks to this debate, and then tried to insult people. I'm not bothered about winning arguments, but as you can go back and see, I've debated this topic and he has chosen to ignore everything I've said but attempt to bait.
But all you have done is say that's 'complete bollox', am I supposed to see the light? When I don't what does it say about you that calls me then a troll as if my opinions are false? Look above and you will find lengthy views followed by nothing more than 'idiot' - I paraphrase.
I think this person does not have different views from me, it simply does not know how to discuss and perhaps feels out of its depth so it attacks.. I have been called this many times in line with the many people who cannot deal with oppposing views.
You make some excellent points in this post. One thing Labour should have done was make more partnerships between these elite universities (and universities in general) and inner-city schools. When I was in high school, we had loads of things like these. There should be more summer programmes so some of th bright kids and others can go and spend four weeks of their summer holidays at universities and be taught by some of the academics.
David Lammy is Harvard educated-- I wonder how much outreach work he did with the disadvantaged kids in Tottenham? I am heartily sick of "role models" for black and other working-class kids being athletes and entertainers.
It needs to start at year 4. Of course education is not for everyone, we know that. However, it's demoralising to think that some bright 9 year-old may not think of uni as an option for them because that's not what people from their area do after school.
I fully support that idea and I remember making a point to similar effect in a government consultation response during the New Labour era. It both saddens and annoys me that there are so many bright kids from poor and underprivileged backgrounds with great potential who will not get the chance to go to university because of the ineptitude of assorted governments and ministers (hence my earlier response). :mad:
But all you have done is say that's 'complete bollox', am I supposed to see the light? When I don't what does it say about you that calls me then a troll as if my opinions are false? Look above and you will find lengthy views followed by nothing more than 'idiot' - I paraphrase.
I'm not trying to make you see anything. You are posting opinion as fact. In fact, what you said about black culture is wrong on all levels. For one, it supposes that all black culture is identical, when it is clearly not. Secondly, white working class males do worse than everyone academic wise, but you choose to ignore this. Then you come up with this insane idea that everyone is racist-- if so, then why are mixed-race people soon to become the largest ethnic group in Britain?
Isn't the bolded bit a contradiction? Universities can't let people in based just on intelligence. Intelligence is a gift but it has to be used. Yes, there are cultural factors that proportionally fewer black people can afford to go to independent schools (that are better at getting children, of any race, into cam/ox), there are cultural factors like asian parents tend to value education more highly than non-asians. (Asian there is both those from the indian subcontinent and south-east asia).
Fewer black people have aims of higher education etc. But none of this or what you are saying is an argument for racism at these universities. It is that these people (black boys in particular) are being failed, by the culture in their societies, by the guidance given to them at school etc.
A university at the end of the day can't look at your raw intelligence (unless you are a savant or something), they have to look at your actual performance and achievements, your attitude to work, learning and other people etc.
Summarised, universities should not be agents of social change. If you want to do it, it has to be done earlier in life.
Comments
Edited just in time there, didn't you?
why are you quoting me? why are you following me around?
please let people get back to the topic
And I care what these people have to offer? You turn up and say you're digging a hole, another I'm a troll and don't post to them and another who follows me around, says nothing and calls me names. This forum is really quite a thing.
Then perhaps you can tell me why my opinions are not correct, look above and you'll find lots of them. Is this the playground forum perhaps?
Now back on topic why are my views above so heinous?
They recently had 13 years in power to improve standards in schools in poor and deprived areas and they failed. They had 13 years to forcibly end any discrimination in elite universities and they failed.
From various studies, it's clear that the one thing that's stopping young people from poor and disadvantaged backgrounds from going to university is the fear of accruing large debts because of the introduction of tuition fees by New Labour.
And guess which New Labour MP and minister ceaselessly championed tuition fees? That's right, you've guessed it! It was none other than the bichon frise ultra-poodle himself, David Lammy.
He did nothing about this situation when he was in power and neither did he do anything about the causes of this unfortunate situation. He has no political credibilty whatsoever on this issue.
Mine was intended as relatively friendly advice. Plainly you can't take a hint. You seem to have an opinion slightly to the right of Oswald Moseley. I can see where you are coming from, but you're not making your point, as it's just not that simple. To just announce that black culture prevents Oxbridge entry is about the same as saying the sun shines cos it's on fire.
You've already lost half the argument when you start labelling somebody that happens to holds diametrically opposed views to yourself as a 'troll'.
You're not wrong. I've been following you round the internet for years, apparently, and I'm still waiting for you to post something remotely intelligent.
You make some excellent points in this post. One thing Labour should have done was make more partnerships between these elite universities (and universities in general) and inner-city schools. When I was in high school, we had loads of things like these. There should be more summer programmes so some of th bright kids and others can go and spend four weeks of their summer holidays at universities and be taught by some of the academics.
David Lammy is Harvard educated-- I wonder how much outreach work he did with the disadvantaged kids in Tottenham? I am heartily sick of "role models" for black and other working-class kids being athletes and entertainers.
It needs to start at year 4. Of course education is not for everyone, we know that. However, it's demoralising to think that some bright 9 year-old may not think of uni as an option for them because that's not what people from their area do after school.
except for when they really are a troll
Not when the troll *is* a troll.
snap!
I don't mind people having views opposite to mine. Two posters who I respect, but don't agree with are Speak-Softly and ayrshireman. We rarely agree on anything, but they post intelligent, well-thought out and interesting things.
This person has not added anything other than complete bollocks to this debate, and then tried to insult people. I'm not bothered about winning arguments, but as you can go back and see, I've debated this topic and he has chosen to ignore everything I've said but attempt to bait.
it's all me, me, me!
I think this person does not have different views from me, it simply does not know how to discuss and perhaps feels out of its depth so it attacks.. I have been called this many times in line with the many people who cannot deal with oppposing views.
I wouldn't go that far, but I think there are serious problems. It's a very complex issue.
But all you have done is say that's 'complete bollox', am I supposed to see the light? When I don't what does it say about you that calls me then a troll as if my opinions are false? Look above and you will find lengthy views followed by nothing more than 'idiot' - I paraphrase.
Don't flatter yourself, dude.
I fully support that idea and I remember making a point to similar effect in a government consultation response during the New Labour era. It both saddens and annoys me that there are so many bright kids from poor and underprivileged backgrounds with great potential who will not get the chance to go to university because of the ineptitude of assorted governments and ministers (hence my earlier response). :mad:
It worries me how you never see any black people in colleges nor do you see them in cinemas or theatres.
I didn't see many in university either. The ones I did see where on a switch from the USA.
I'm not trying to make you see anything. You are posting opinion as fact. In fact, what you said about black culture is wrong on all levels. For one, it supposes that all black culture is identical, when it is clearly not. Secondly, white working class males do worse than everyone academic wise, but you choose to ignore this. Then you come up with this insane idea that everyone is racist-- if so, then why are mixed-race people soon to become the largest ethnic group in Britain?
Well written post...makes me think