Youd think Cameron would be well versed in announcing / defending rises in unemployment , its one of the main criteria for being leader of the tory party.
No way on gods earth can the private sector fill the gaps. Unless Tesco's Poundland, Primark , Starbucks & Travelodge are going to built on every street corner. The tories love high unemployment , its keeps wgaes down, it keeps the workforce less inclined to strike & makes it more servient & accepting of more draconian measures with regards to unpaid overtime, longer hours & bigger workloads, knowing that if the refuse thers 3-6 m willing to take their place. The UK wasnt known as the sweatshop of Europe for nothing when John Major was in office.
The last time the tories where in office they had the nationalised industries & the unions to use as scapegoats to enact their divide & conquer mantra of the 'Finchley Faith' . This time around its the public services & the public sector thats in for a caning. Last time around nobody batted an eyelid as the industrial heartlands where laid waste to. Is the country going to sit baout& let the bare embers left be laid seige to?
Let the libraires, sports centres / swimming baths etc be closed down, enough people in England wanted this so let the closures begin. Just time to batten doen the hatches & ride what is going to a very turbulent storm. Hopefully this time when the asset stripping / state sponsored vandalism is enacted peopel will finaly understand what the tories are all about. Lord Snooty & his henchmen are not in this to cut the defecit , its all about enacting the last remaing chapters of the 'Finchley Faith' that their revered former high preistess never got round to imposing.
Well Wrote that sums up why I HATE the Tories. People are already losing there jobs, petrol up and again with the vat in the New Year, plus a tax rise on petral. Oil is going up all the time. The Tories want a low pound to get the deficit down, Infaltion is getting out of hand but the workers like me get NO rise in wages and I might lose my job next year.
This Goverment has already printed so much FUNNY Money and may again. Look up Germany in the 1920's where inflation got out of hand and we all ended up with a World War
INFLATION loves the Tories and the Tories Love INFLATION and High Unemployment.
But we are all it togerther so thats ok then?
Well Wrote that sums up why I HATE the Tories. People are already losing there jobs, petrol up and again with the vat in the New Year, plus a tax rise on petral. Oil is going up all the time. The Tories want a low pound to get the deficit down, Infaltion is getting out of hand but the workers like me get NO rise in wages and I might lose my job next year.
This Goverment has already printed so much FUNNY Money and may again. Look up Germany in the 1920's where inflation got out of hand and we all ended up with a World War
INFLATION loves the Tories and the Tories Love INFLATION and High Unemployment.
But we are all it togerther so thats ok then?
I don't think I've ever read so much nonsense on this forum. Why on earth would a government "love" inflation and higher unemployment?
Furthermore, the weak pound, money printing and consequential inflation are all of Labour's doing, not the Tories. As for agreeing with sheepdogno1 on keeping wages down, this is again a Labour policy in allowing an unparalleled expansion of the potential workforce through unprecedented immigration levels.
So if Labour was still in power unemployment would be the same or falling?
December 2007 we heard first about bad Mortgages in the USA then in 2008 saw Lehman Brothers go bankrupt.
I have NEVER supported Labour, BUT thank God they were in power because the TORIES wanted to cut spending then.
Labour saved JOBS in 2008, maybe your Job?
I don't think I've ever read so much nonsense on this forum. Why on earth would a government "love" inflation and higher unemployment?
Furthermore, the weak pound, money printing and consequential inflation are all of Labour's doing, not the Tories. As for agreeing with sheepdogno1 on keeping wages down, this is again a Labour policy in allowing an unparalleled expansion of the potential workforce through unprecedented immigration levels.
Look up History. I read a lot of nonsense on here, BUT I will give you a reward for being a ....
Lets HOPE you have a good 2011
You are wrong and if you are a worker, 2011 is going to be hard, but please remember if you lose your job or anyone near you does, just remember we are all in it togerther OK? That should make you feel better:) Tw..
Every salary paid to a public sector worker comes from the taxes of the private sector. So, everytime you recruit someone in the public sector, you're taking money out of the private sector that could have been used to employ someone there.
What Labour did was *borrow* money to employ people. That's even worse, as, rather than a one-to-one swap, the private sector not only has to pay that person's wage via tax, but also the interest on the loan! Which leaves even less money to recruit people!
In short, they've actually *cost* jobs in the long run!
But, meh, there was an election coming up - what do you expect from politicians beyond this kind of self-serving, elastoplast fix?!
Well Wrote that sums up why I HATE the Tories. People are already losing there jobs, petrol up and again with the vat in the New Year, plus a tax rise on petral. Oil is going up all the time. The Tories want a low pound to get the deficit down, Infaltion is getting out of hand but the workers like me get NO rise in wages and I might lose my job next year.
This Goverment has already printed so much FUNNY Money and may again. Look up Germany in the 1920's where inflation got out of hand and we all ended up with a World War
INFLATION loves the Tories and the Tories Love INFLATION and High Unemployment.
But we are all it togerther so thats ok then?
:yawn: Like Styker when will you realise that the "big three" are all as bad as each other.
Labour are no better than the Tories
The Tories are proving to be no better than Labour.
The Lib Dems have proven to be no better then either
Look up History. I read a lot of nonsense on here, BUT I will give you a reward for being a ....
Lets HOPE you have a good 2011
You are wrong and if you are a worker, 2011 is going to be hard, but please remember if you lose your job or anyone near you does, just remember we are all in it togerther OK? That should make you feel better:) Tw..
If you want to talk history, how about the time when we had the highest inflation ever and an even greater currency devaluation - under Labour in the 70's as it happens.
I heard an economic expert on the radio the other day who said that a population of 65m people should have an unemployment rate of around 4m at any given time. Some of those would be the long-term unemployed and some in-between jobs but this idea that you can have zero unemployment (or anywhere near it) is like wishing for World Peace, it's a pipe dream.
This Goverment has already printed so much FUNNY Money and may again. Look up Germany in the 1920's where inflation got out of hand and we all ended up with a World War
INFLATION loves the Tories and the Tories Love INFLATION and High Unemployment.
But we are all it togerther so thats ok then?
This is absolute nonsense - Quantitive Easing was a policy started under LABOUR - and many of us who are on the right were warning that this would be inflationary.
Further the reason we went through the recession in the early 80's and again in the 90's was to work inflation out of the economy - something that had largely been successful.
It has never been the policy of the Tory party to encourage inflation.
I heard an economic expert on the radio the other day who said that a population of 65m people should have an unemployment rate of around 4m at any given time. Some of those would be the long-term unemployed and some in-between jobs but this idea that you can have zero unemployment (or anywhere near it) is like wishing for World Peace, it's a pipe dream.
So if that is the case, why are the government attaching punitive measures to welfare claimants? Surely they are not punishing people for not being able to find work out of spite!?
So if that is the case, why are the government attaching punitive measures to welfare claimants? Surely they are not punishing people for not being able to find work out of spite!?
No, not spite. It has to be done as useless Brown and his left wing moron friends, as usual, spent all the money and left the country bankrupt.
Then because of their own actions, it all goes to hell, and like the immature idiots they are, they then seek to blame others.
Sorry benefits hoovers. the free money for votes days are over, you can no longer **** your vote out for cash from workers pockets.
No, not spite. It has to be done as useless Brown and his left wing moron friends, as usual, spent all the money and left the country bankrupt.
Then because of their own actions, it all goes to hell, and like the immature idiots they are, they then seek to blame others.
Sorry benefits hoovers. the free money for votes days are over, you can no longer **** your vote out for cash from workers pockets.
You want money? Get a job.
Prize for the most offensive post of the day ?
That you don't appreciate that it is the socio-economic system itself that is at fault, and not the individual parties that operate that system speaks volumes.
The Labour Party is Right wing, like the Tories. They both support Capitalism, which goes belly-up every few years.
That you don't appreciate that it is the socio-economic system itself that is at fault, and not the individual parties that operate that system speaks volumes.
The Labour Party is Right wing, like the Tories. They both support Capitalism, which goes belly-up every few years.
Why do you not know this?
You are still going on about some utopia that so far few if any people accept.
The Labour Party swapped a desire for public ownership of industry - which manifestly failed - and replaced it with a love of big business. It is not entirely left wing, or right wing and therefore managed to put off both sides.
Our benefit system has created an underclass dependency culture and the changes the Tories are making are an attempt to rectify this.
As for the problems of the last 3 years - economics goes in cycles; but an application of an economic theory of risk failed because it became self-fulfilling until it could not be sustained. Ignoring the lessons of economics - meant the problems were so much worse than they needed to be. If someone had said to NR that they were under capitalised back in 2003 then they could have dealt with the problem - same for HBoS. RBS's biggest problem was that it too was under capitalised and over leveraged to take over ABMN Amro. These are not fundemental problems with capitalism, but problems with the individual companies concerned.
But you don't disagree in what I said? you are just worried about CAPS?
How Sad
From what little I could understand of your barely coherent ramblings, I disagree with every word, but I suspect there's little point in trying to have an intelligent debate with you about it.
Isn't that the point of this thread? That are more people losing and chasing jobs than there are jobs, and it's not looking like 2011 will reverse that trend, but in fact get worse with the mass influx of public sector workers and the employees who rely on public sector contracts. Get a job is easy to say in theory, try the reality.
My main complaint is that the Government is expecting the private sector to employ more people, but actually it's flatlining or reducing in most sectors. Cameron said he was concerned with the figures on PMQT. Well, he should be and what is his government going to do about it, now that it looks like his 'public sector will save the day' solution doesn't look that healthy and able?
It probably will get better, but probably around 2014/2015 - if we're lucky. But that's only with good governing. At the moment, I'm not that convinced that Cameron or Clegg or Osborne know what the hell they're doing and just taking a punt with out economy and future. Not that I think Labour know either, but at this time we need someone motivated to get us out of this mess, someone who will ignore party politics and point scoring and just do what we need to do with the least amount of pain. I don't see anyone fitting that role - maybe Vince Cable, I'm not sure.
I just hope we're not facing a Lost Decade like Japan. What a nightmare.
You are still going on about some utopia that so far few if any people accept.
The Labour Party swapped a desire for public ownership of industry - which manifestly failed - and replaced it with a love of big business. It is not entirely left wing, or right wing and therefore managed to put off both sides.
Our benefit system has created an underclass dependency culture and the changes the Tories are making are an attempt to rectify this.
As for the problems of the last 3 years - economics goes in cycles; but an application of an economic theory of risk failed because it became self-fulfilling until it could not be sustained. Ignoring the lessons of economics - meant the problems were so much worse than they needed to be. If someone had said to NR that they were under capitalised back in 2003 then they could have dealt with the problem - same for HBoS. RBS's biggest problem was that it too was under capitalised and over leveraged to take over ABMN Amro. These are not fundemental problems with capitalism, but problems with the individual companies concerned.
What you constantly fail to appreciate when you speak airily of "economics" is that you are speaking of Capitalist economics, and you use one of it's "interpretations" to be the last word on the subject. Economics doesn't go in cycles - Capitalism does - it is what happens when the creation of goods and services is based on confidence and without any sort of planning.
When you start thinking of economic systems rather than the parties that the people are told are "choices" then maybe you will understand what I am talking about.
(And please remember most nationalised industries/companies were taken into public ownership because they were already failing).
When you start thinking of economic systems rather than the parties that the people are told are "choices" then maybe you will understand what I am talking about.
See, this is where you're making the mistake. We do understand what you're talking about, it's just that we think it's completely ludicrous.
Have you all forgotten the dreadful labour government that bankrupted this country, Have you? open your eyes. or do you just moan about whoever is in power. Let the coalition get on with it. Every time we've had a lablour gov they wreck the country and then we have to get the Tories back to repair it again. I know cuts and unemployment aren't nice, but especially in the civil service they are necessary. because we all know that civil service under lablour was as obesse as a very fat obesse fat thing.
What you constantly fail to appreciate when you speak airily of "economics" is that you are speaking of Capitalist economics, and you use one of it's "interpretations" to be the last word on the subject. Economics doesn't go in cycles - Capitalism does - it is what happens when the creation of goods and services is based on confidence and without any sort of planning.
No, I am also considering people. Communism is all very well in a textbook but it fails miserably when faced with people. That is because one of the driving forces of people is to improve their own lives - and that comes at the expense of others - you are no more going to remove that imperative from people than you are going to tell them to stop breathing. It is why senators in Rome became such a conniving bunch.
A system of central control will result in at best stagnation because there is no driving force making people do better. There would be no reason to.
It is the competitive nature of the West which has done so much to improve the general living conditions.
When you start thinking of economic systems rather than the parties that the people are told are "choices" then maybe you will understand what I am talking about.
I know perfectly well what you are talking about - I just do not happen to agree with you.
(And please remember most nationalised industries/companies were taken into public ownership because they were already failing).
Nationalising inefficient industries and making the taxpayer pay for it - did nothing to help the situation. Improving those industries then may have ensured that we did not lose so many jobs in a short time in the 80's.
Comments
I thought it was the Tories who did that in the 80s, and it was Labour who tried to sort that mess out.
Well they were not that successful given the economically inactive reached record levels under Labour.
It's a total ponzi scheme - a house of cards doomed to collapse, but that was very much the Gordon Brown economy.
Regards,
Cypher
Well Wrote that sums up why I HATE the Tories. People are already losing there jobs, petrol up and again with the vat in the New Year, plus a tax rise on petral. Oil is going up all the time. The Tories want a low pound to get the deficit down, Infaltion is getting out of hand but the workers like me get NO rise in wages and I might lose my job next year.
This Goverment has already printed so much FUNNY Money and may again. Look up Germany in the 1920's where inflation got out of hand and we all ended up with a World War
INFLATION loves the Tories and the Tories Love INFLATION and High Unemployment.
But we are all it togerther so thats ok then?
I don't think I've ever read so much nonsense on this forum. Why on earth would a government "love" inflation and higher unemployment?
Furthermore, the weak pound, money printing and consequential inflation are all of Labour's doing, not the Tories. As for agreeing with sheepdogno1 on keeping wages down, this is again a Labour policy in allowing an unparalleled expansion of the potential workforce through unprecedented immigration levels.
December 2007 we heard first about bad Mortgages in the USA then in 2008 saw Lehman Brothers go bankrupt.
I have NEVER supported Labour, BUT thank God they were in power because the TORIES wanted to cut spending then.
Labour saved JOBS in 2008, maybe your Job?
I dunno, maybe ask Maggie and her worshippers why unemployment being high was something they liked to maintain.
But you don't disagree in what I said? you are just worried about CAPS?
How Sad
Look up History. I read a lot of nonsense on here, BUT I will give you a reward for being a ....
Lets HOPE you have a good 2011
You are wrong and if you are a worker, 2011 is going to be hard, but please remember if you lose your job or anyone near you does, just remember we are all in it togerther OK? That should make you feel better:) Tw..
Every salary paid to a public sector worker comes from the taxes of the private sector. So, everytime you recruit someone in the public sector, you're taking money out of the private sector that could have been used to employ someone there.
What Labour did was *borrow* money to employ people. That's even worse, as, rather than a one-to-one swap, the private sector not only has to pay that person's wage via tax, but also the interest on the loan! Which leaves even less money to recruit people!
In short, they've actually *cost* jobs in the long run!
But, meh, there was an election coming up - what do you expect from politicians beyond this kind of self-serving, elastoplast fix?!
Regards,
Cypher
:yawn: Like Styker when will you realise that the "big three" are all as bad as each other.
Labour are no better than the Tories
The Tories are proving to be no better than Labour.
The Lib Dems have proven to be no better then either
If you want to talk history, how about the time when we had the highest inflation ever and an even greater currency devaluation - under Labour in the 70's as it happens.
This is absolute nonsense - Quantitive Easing was a policy started under LABOUR - and many of us who are on the right were warning that this would be inflationary.
Further the reason we went through the recession in the early 80's and again in the 90's was to work inflation out of the economy - something that had largely been successful.
It has never been the policy of the Tory party to encourage inflation.
So if that is the case, why are the government attaching punitive measures to welfare claimants? Surely they are not punishing people for not being able to find work out of spite!?
QFT
I notice the lefties on here as usual dont care for the working man.
All they want is free money taken from working people.
No, not spite. It has to be done as useless Brown and his left wing moron friends, as usual, spent all the money and left the country bankrupt.
Then because of their own actions, it all goes to hell, and like the immature idiots they are, they then seek to blame others.
Sorry benefits hoovers. the free money for votes days are over, you can no longer **** your vote out for cash from workers pockets.
You want money? Get a job.
Prize for the most offensive post of the day ?
That you don't appreciate that it is the socio-economic system itself that is at fault, and not the individual parties that operate that system speaks volumes.
The Labour Party is Right wing, like the Tories. They both support Capitalism, which goes belly-up every few years.
Why do you not know this?
You are still going on about some utopia that so far few if any people accept.
The Labour Party swapped a desire for public ownership of industry - which manifestly failed - and replaced it with a love of big business. It is not entirely left wing, or right wing and therefore managed to put off both sides.
Our benefit system has created an underclass dependency culture and the changes the Tories are making are an attempt to rectify this.
As for the problems of the last 3 years - economics goes in cycles; but an application of an economic theory of risk failed because it became self-fulfilling until it could not be sustained. Ignoring the lessons of economics - meant the problems were so much worse than they needed to be. If someone had said to NR that they were under capitalised back in 2003 then they could have dealt with the problem - same for HBoS. RBS's biggest problem was that it too was under capitalised and over leveraged to take over ABMN Amro. These are not fundemental problems with capitalism, but problems with the individual companies concerned.
From what little I could understand of your barely coherent ramblings, I disagree with every word, but I suspect there's little point in trying to have an intelligent debate with you about it.
Isn't that the point of this thread? That are more people losing and chasing jobs than there are jobs, and it's not looking like 2011 will reverse that trend, but in fact get worse with the mass influx of public sector workers and the employees who rely on public sector contracts. Get a job is easy to say in theory, try the reality.
My main complaint is that the Government is expecting the private sector to employ more people, but actually it's flatlining or reducing in most sectors. Cameron said he was concerned with the figures on PMQT. Well, he should be and what is his government going to do about it, now that it looks like his 'public sector will save the day' solution doesn't look that healthy and able?
It probably will get better, but probably around 2014/2015 - if we're lucky. But that's only with good governing. At the moment, I'm not that convinced that Cameron or Clegg or Osborne know what the hell they're doing and just taking a punt with out economy and future. Not that I think Labour know either, but at this time we need someone motivated to get us out of this mess, someone who will ignore party politics and point scoring and just do what we need to do with the least amount of pain. I don't see anyone fitting that role - maybe Vince Cable, I'm not sure.
I just hope we're not facing a Lost Decade like Japan. What a nightmare.
What you constantly fail to appreciate when you speak airily of "economics" is that you are speaking of Capitalist economics, and you use one of it's "interpretations" to be the last word on the subject. Economics doesn't go in cycles - Capitalism does - it is what happens when the creation of goods and services is based on confidence and without any sort of planning.
When you start thinking of economic systems rather than the parties that the people are told are "choices" then maybe you will understand what I am talking about.
(And please remember most nationalised industries/companies were taken into public ownership because they were already failing).
See, this is where you're making the mistake. We do understand what you're talking about, it's just that we think it's completely ludicrous.
No, I am also considering people. Communism is all very well in a textbook but it fails miserably when faced with people. That is because one of the driving forces of people is to improve their own lives - and that comes at the expense of others - you are no more going to remove that imperative from people than you are going to tell them to stop breathing. It is why senators in Rome became such a conniving bunch.
A system of central control will result in at best stagnation because there is no driving force making people do better. There would be no reason to.
It is the competitive nature of the West which has done so much to improve the general living conditions.
I know perfectly well what you are talking about - I just do not happen to agree with you.
Nationalising inefficient industries and making the taxpayer pay for it - did nothing to help the situation. Improving those industries then may have ensured that we did not lose so many jobs in a short time in the 80's.