Privatisation of utilities wrong

Majlis · 30/12/10 - 07:34

We keep hearing from various posters that the privatisation of utilities was a mistake - will this weeks experience in NI make them reconsider?

"36,000 people who have been without running water for days"

"people have been without water for 11 days"

"water "black outs" where householders' supplies are interrupted for a period of six to eight hours"

"Years of underinvestment"

"drinking water crisis is in danger of developing into a major health emergency"

"We inherited a poor water infrastructure "

are just some of the quotes today about the water problems in NI - one of only 2 regions that remained in State control after the privatisation in the rest of the UK.

Hardly a beacon for State control of utilities...:(

MartinP · 30/12/10 - 08:31

So long as shareholders don't see a return some people will accept anything from the state and be glad.

[Deleted User] · 30/12/10 - 08:37

So privatised water doesn't freeze but public water does?

Good job the airports are private

this_is_me · 30/12/10 - 09:26

Good job Severn Trent are private too. It means they'll never cut-off the water to 140,000 homes for nearly 2 weeks.

Oh, hang on. They did.

Majlis · 30/12/10 - 09:29

this_is_me wrote: »

Good job Severn Trent are private too. It means they'll never cut-off the water to 140,000 homes for nearly 2 weeks.

Oh, hang on. They did.

But that is my point - we keep getting told that Nationalised utilities provide better service when the plain facts are that they dont.

They still suffer from neglect of investment and bad nmanagement in exactly the same way as privatised companies and their fees are no less.

At least with privatisation the government got a windfall which helped to offset some other taxes.

Lincoln Hawk · 30/12/10 - 09:34

Maybe Labour should have invested money in tangible things like water pipes instead of blowing it all on airy fairy stuff?

SHAFT · 30/12/10 - 09:46

Lincoln Hawk wrote: »

Maybe Labour should have invested money in tangible things like water pipes instead of blowing it all on airy fairy stuff?

You're like a bloody broken record! :rolleyes:

Annsyre · 30/12/10 - 09:48

"One swallow does not a summer make"

Or in this case a winter.

Northern Ireland experienced exceptional weather this winter the worst for generations.

That, and underinvestment resulted in the present situation.

This does not make the case for either public or private utilities.

It would have happened even if the N.I. water supply was in private hands.

[Deleted User] · 30/12/10 - 09:56

At least when its state run its being run for the benefit of the country , isnt in foreign hands, is accountable to the public & isnt doling out massive salaries to its top brass at the expense of the customers.

PoliticoRN · 30/12/10 - 09:56

There's bad private control of utilities and bad state control.

Bad management is bad management whoever does it.

And this:

SheepdogNo1 wrote: »

At least when its state run its being run for the benefit of the country , isnt in foreign hands, is accountable to the public & isnt doling out massive salaries to its top brass at the expense of the customers.

Majlis · 30/12/10 - 10:00

SheepdogNo1 wrote: »

At least when its state run its being run for the benefit of the country , isnt in foreign hands, is accountable to the public & isnt doling out massive salaries to its top brass at the expense of the customers.

But if the service to the comsumer is no good what is the point?

Or doesn't the consumer matter? - well come to think of it, remebering back to the days of mass nationalisation, no the consumer didn't matter

Annsyre · 30/12/10 - 10:02

PoliticoRN wrote: »

There's bad private control of utilities and bad state control.

Bad management is bad management whoever does it.

And this:

I agree, I remember years and years and years of burst water pipes before our water was privatised and things are far better now especially since regulation and the legal obligation of water companies to replace and repair underground pipes.

Ethel_Fred · 30/12/10 - 10:21

Annsyre wrote: »

I agree, I remember years and years and years of burst water pipes before our water was privatised and things are far better now especially since regulation and the legal obligation of water companies to replace and repair underground pipes.

All that proves is that making things a legal obligation works. But surely that's government intervention which is wrong

Annsyre · 30/12/10 - 10:28

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

All that proves is that making things a legal obligation works. But surely that's government intervention which is wrong

I don 't understand what you mean. What is wrong with regulating any service which affects public health and well being?

"Ofwat (The Water Services Regulation Authority) is the economic regulator of the water and sewerage sectors in England and Wales. We are here to make sure that the companies provide household and business customers with a good quality service and value for money."

Richievilla · 30/12/10 - 10:53

Privatised utilities = the same level of service as the previously nationalised utilities but at a hugely increased price to the consumer. Privatising the utilities was one of the worst government policies in the last 30 years imo.

Ethel_Fred · 30/12/10 - 11:04

Annsyre wrote: »

I don 't understand what you mean. What is wrong with regulating any service which affects public health and well being?

It's against the idea of the Free Market. People should have the right to accept poor quality water supplies, it's up to them if they want to have typhoid or not

If "public health" is so important then why aren't fast food outlets legally required to provide healthy food.

As for the OP - I see the publicly owned Scottish Water is sending water to NI.

[Deleted User] · 30/12/10 - 11:05

Northern Irish Water is a LTD corporation - owned by the Governement.

http://www.niwater.com/whoweare.asp

Which I think is the point the OP was making and that some did not get.

Majlis · 30/12/10 - 11:21

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

it's up to them if they want to have typhoid or not

I dont think it is - Typhoid is a Notifiable Disease and as such you can forceably be segregated and/or treated from the community

John146 · 30/12/10 - 11:25

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

It's against the idea of the Free Market. People should have the right to accept poor quality water supplies, it's up to them if they want to have typhoid or not

If "public health" is so important then why aren't fast food outlets legally required to provide healthy food.

As for the OP - I see the publicly owned Scottish Water is sending water to NI.

Surely that cannot be true?, what if in the Free Market people as you say accept a lower standard of supply, but others don't, and don't want themselves/family made ill by inferior water, how does the Free Market handle that scenario?

Annsyre · 30/12/10 - 11:27

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

It's against the idea of the Free Market. People should have the right to accept poor quality water supplies, it's up to them if they want to have typhoid or not

If "public health" is so important then why aren't fast food outlets legally required to provide healthy food.

As for the OP - I see the publicly owned Scottish Water is sending water to NI.

You are obviously joking surely?

John146 · 30/12/10 - 11:28

As a sort of poll on opinions, does anyone think that the utilities i.e Gas, Electricity, Water, Telephones, are better now they are privatised, or were they better nationalised?

Ethel_Fred · 30/12/10 - 11:28

Majlis wrote: »

I dont think it is - Typhoid is a Notifiable Disease and as such you can forceably be segregated and/or treated from the community

The only reason the water companies have been upgrading their networks is because they are legally required to do, not because private companies would do it by themselves.

But as we are keep getting told government regulation is intrinsically wrong and that the Free Market will solve all problems.

Therefore why require Typhoid to be legally notifiable? Surely the Free Market would solve the problem?

[Deleted User] · 30/12/10 - 11:29

Richievilla wrote: »

Privatised utilities = the same level of service as the previously nationalised utilities but at a hugely increased price to the consumer. Privatising the utilities was one of the worst government policies in the last 30 years imo.

Really? I now have a choice of which electricity company I use, and can choose to go with the cheaper one. Same with my gas. And I have a much wider choice of telecoms / broadband suppliers with much more varied service.

Don't kid yourself that the prices would have been cheaper if they'd still been nationalised monopolies. With no competition to drive an improvement in service, increased efficiency, or a reduction in price, we wouldn't even get the paltry savings and deals that we do at the moment.

Unless, of course, those nationalised suppliers kept prices artificially down by sucking more money from the tax coffers to service their public sector pay increments and gilt-edged pensions...

Ethel_Fred · 30/12/10 - 11:30

John146 wrote: »

Surely that cannot be true?, what if in the Free Market people as you say accept a lower standard of supply, but others don't, and don't want themselves/family made ill by inferior water, how does the Free Market handle that scenario?

The Free Market Solves All Problems. Government Interference Is Always Wrong.

Annsyre · 30/12/10 - 11:30

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

The only reason the water companies have been upgrading their networks is because they are legally required to do, not because private companies would do it by themselves.

But as we are keep getting told government regulation is intrinsically wrong and that the Free Market will solve all problems.

Therefore why require Typhoid to be legally notifiable? Surely the Free Market would solve the problem?

Told by whom?

Only an idiot would recomment letting the water supply be unregulated.

John146 · 30/12/10 - 11:31

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

The only reason the water companies have been upgrading their networks is because they are legally required to do, not because private companies would do it by themselves.

But as we are keep getting told government regulation is intrinsically wrong and that the Free Market will solve all problems.

Therefore why require Typhoid to be legally notifiable? Surely the Free Market would solve the problem?

I would also think that water companies are legally obliged to send pure water to consumers, seem to recall an instance some time ago where a tanker driver mistakenly added to much of a chemical to the water supply (Cornwall I think) and the company were heavily fined

Hey there!

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