i think the problem with Torchwood was that, funny though it was, it went from being this top secret organisation that nobody knew about to being a running joke with old ladies in Cardiff "Bloody Torchwood" being an example. If they had stuck to the secrecy thing it might have been better. Having said that I have enjoyed all three series so far, but have to agree with some posters that killing off all but 2 of the origional characters was a bit much.
remember who jack used retcon to blank anyones memory of Torchwood. That went out of the window a long time ago which was a pity as that was one of the better ideas they used to have.
Also I must admit to missing the Cardiff locations down at the bay front and can't help but wonder what has happened to all the alien tech, the bodies of previous Torchwood members and everything else associated with the Hub. I know that most of it was destroyed but surely something survived.
There is nothing to say that TW had to have a specific format it had to follow no matter what, and that it shouldn't change according to what the person who created it in the first place wants to do with it. If that was the case DW wouldn't be where it was if it never dared to make changes. In the same way TW doesn't have to difined by specific locations or characters even.....maybe if we had five years of the same thing, and then all of a sudden it changed....but the fact that every year it has been given some sort of shake up...character wise, story format wise, location wise.....the fourth eries doing some other changes doesn't undermine its so called foundation either. The show wasn't called Torchwood: CARDIFF (the fact that this is only one base anyway, TW roots actually exist in Scotland) ...or TW:Jack,Ianto,Gwen,Owen,Tosh that they aren't allowed to go beyond these people and places....its just called Torchwood, which startted off about a groupd TW workers in Cardiff, and how they are where they are now dead or alive.
As for people knowing about TW now in Cardiff, well in all fairness, series 1 was mocked for the fact that they manage to be a secret organisation despite going around in a SUV with TW written in the side....so they embraced this mockery with open arms as the next step....and made the Joke that even an elderly lady knows who they are.....
Not interested in the new American characters or any of the CIA stuff. They seem to be completely ignoring the more important question of what happened to Jack's brother, Mfanwy the Pterodactyl and all the stuff in the Hub. If we don't get some closure on it, I'm going to be very annoyed.
Of course it is-they supposedly had a huge store of alien technology stashed away there, there is no way that Jack or Gwen would realistically be so irresponsible as to just assume it had been destroyed! And what about the prisoners in the cells and in the suspended animation chambers? Jack's brother was a major part of series 2, are we supposed to believe he's now just been forgotten? This stuff is hardly minor!
Because it is important to those who actually follow the show and care about internal consistency. That populist attitude was what ruined Doctor Who, I don't want to see Torchwood go the same way.
You can't just blow a major character up off-screen and not mention it. It's pretty much an unwritten rule of this kind of fiction that if you don't see a body, the character is not dead.
the hub got blown apart...we all saw it...not by some small kitchen liquid made bomb, but a government funded bomb!!! we all saw the place in ruins.....do they really need to tell us in plain words that everything got destroyed, or is the fact that Jack's body was searched for, and later Gwen says she found Jack's vortex manipulator in the wreckage....suggesting that she went searching for things....so the wrekage wasn't left unsearched by nobody at all...who knows what she or the government found and put away.....but whatever so, that wasn't the main part of the whole COE story, just a part of it....surely you not suggesting that we be spoon fed every little detail Tony, and be told in detail rather than leave it to our tiny brains to decide that things may have not survived that blast???:eek:
As for the brother....he was part of the series 2 arc....and it ended there when Jack put him to sleep.....It could well be that he survived....but knowing if he did or didn't in a story that isn't about him is not important....how would they know for sure anyway? when Gwen or Johnson got the wreckage searched....who is to say they didn't find his remains..and if so, how would they know if it was him, considering they had many a body buried in TW.....so what was Jack going to say? "gwen did you find my brother's remians"....when he didn't even ask about Tosh's remains....he wasn't immortal like Jack was....so he really has no reason to question his survival....and he was hardly going to talk about him to Ianto or Gwen when because of Gray, Tosh and Owen died (latter for good)
Your making an issue of nothing really...not a plot element at all....just a character who was put away for good when the series arc for series 2 ended.....
Yeah, this is exciting news. Made it all feel so real now.
I don't understand the fuss about making it clear what was destroyed in the explosion... Are they meant to spend 10 minutes listing everything at the beginning? That will captivate the new audience. The standard TV/Book/Film pattern will be put into practice and if they need something, it will have survived and be mentioned. If they don't, then it blew up. Kind of obvious 99% of things blew up, the whole place was just rubble.
I can't help thinking that it is just the usual moaning and superfan claiming. "I know they used to have a weevil, I wonder where it is". Yes, we all know but the rest of us assume it died. It is the books as canon crap all over again. The majority of the audience will not know/care/remember. The hardcore fans, us, saw the place blow up and saw the rubble/remains. I really don't need a list of what survived/perished.
Loving the new title, I hated New World. I think I would prefer just 'Miracle'. But still, it is exciting and looks like it will be huge now, which is great. I kind of want one more series of radio plays but that will never happen now.
And of course, as long as Joe Public is happy to watch it over his egg and chips and doesn't give a crap that there's no consistency, it doesn't matter, right? God, so called 'fans' depress me at times. A good writer would be able to make everything fit and wouldn't need to ignore established continuity.But of course, it doesn't matter, because the great unwashed don't care. Just pass me soime ketchup for my egg and chips...
And of course, as long as Joe Public is happy to watch it over his egg and chips and doesn't give a crap that there's no consistency, it doesn't matter, right? God, so called 'fans' depress me at times. A good writer would be able to make everything fit and wouldn't need to ignore established continuity.But of course, it doesn't matter, because the great unwashed don't care. Just pass me soime ketchup for my egg and chips...
Yeah because some "So called fans" actually knew that Grey was going to be a one off and wouldn't come back unless they had a damn good reason to bring him back.
The fact the actor was useless and actually sucked the life out of a character with a limited life mean that when Jack froze him in the hub he was dead anyway.
And of course, as long as Joe Public is happy to watch it over his egg and chips and doesn't give a crap that there's no consistency, it doesn't matter, right? God, so called 'fans' depress me at times. A good writer would be able to make everything fit and wouldn't need to ignore established continuity.But of course, it doesn't matter, because the great unwashed don't care. Just pass me soime ketchup for my egg and chips...
But how is "everything being blown up" an inconsistant with continuity????
How is not mentioning a character who's arc is arc is complete and I repeat complete.... three years ago, not making everything fit with established continiuty????
and why are you arguing that the audience be spoon fed becuase they are too dumb to take in the fact that once we have been shown things to be blown up...things are blown up.......do you remember how you argued for the Beast Below, and how you felt that not every detail not be needed to be shown or explained????
and here is another question....why can't you be consistant yourself before demanding consistancy from a blooming TV show????
And of course, as long as Joe Public is happy to watch it over his egg and chips and doesn't give a crap that there's no consistency, it doesn't matter, right? God, so called 'fans' depress me at times. A good writer would be able to make everything fit and wouldn't need to ignore established continuity.But of course, it doesn't matter, because the great unwashed don't care. Just pass me soime ketchup for my egg and chips...
Hey! I'm excited about this series. And Eggs and Chips!
Besides, If the Torchwood hub blew up. Then it blew up. Consider Gray dead until he returns. Oh, and the Weevils too. And all that tech down there. Imagine it destroyed.
That just gave me a thought. Wouldn't it be MUCH cooler if Naismith had gotten the Immortality Gate from Torchwood 3? He could mention his destruction from COE. That's the sort of reference I would write for.
Tell me about it. Especially fans with an enlarged sense of self entitlement who think that the show should be made to their specific blueprint even if it would be damaging to the shows status on tv.
Tell me about it. Especially fans with an enlarged sense of self entitlement who think that the show should be made to their specific blueprint even if it would be damaging to the shows status on tv.
Wouldn't it be MUCH cooler if Naismith had gotten the Immortality Gate from Torchwood 3? He could mention his destruction from COE. That's the sort of reference I would write for.
See, that would have made sense! There's no way all that stuff would realistically have been totally destroyed.
See, that would have made sense! There's no way all that stuff would realistically have been totally destroyed.
Realistically???? are you for real yourself????:eek: You are talking about unreal things...made up sci-fi tech, made up characters who are at the mercy of the writer, made up hubs, blown up by a made up bomb!!!!! How realistic do you expect??? The Government wanted rid of TW....they were not going to go for a measly bomb that may not have an affect on alien tech or tombs where bodies were stored...so "realistically" speaking;) survival rate is low!
And anyway as I pointed out before, gwen found the vortex manipulator....suggesting that things may have survived....but we didn't need a list....they can bring in anything they want...or leave it as destroyed.....just like we didn't know what happend to the Doctor's chopped hand untill TW series 1, or if you didn't watch TW, then Utopia.....simples;)
Realistically???? are you for real yourself????:eek: You are talking about unreal things...made up sci-fi tech, made up characters who are at the mercy of the writer, made up hubs, blown up by a made up bomb!!!!! How realistic do you expect??? The Government wanted rid of TW....they were not going to go for a measly bomb that may not have an affect on alien tech or tombs where bodies were stored...so "realistically" speaking;) survival rate is low!
And anyway as I pointed out before, gwen found the vortex manipulator....suggesting that things may have survived....but we didn't need a list....they can bring in anything they want...or leave it as destroyed.....just like we didn't know what happend to the Doctor's chopped hand untill TW series 1, or if you didn't watch TW, then Utopia.....simples;)
But crazzy these things require a bit of intelligence from the viewer, you know like series 5. Those who don't understand it, might not have watched it properly or don't understand the genius of the writer;):p. It's so much better to spoonfeed everything:D:D.
But crazzy these things require a bit of intelligence from the viewer, you know like series 5. Those who don't understand it, might not have watched it properly or don't understand the genius of the writer;):p. It's so much better to spoonfeed everything:D:D.
And of course, as long as Joe Public is happy to watch it over his egg and chips and doesn't give a crap that there's no consistency, it doesn't matter, right? God, so called 'fans' depress me at times. A good writer would be able to make everything fit and wouldn't need to ignore established continuity.But of course, it doesn't matter, because the great unwashed don't care. Just pass me soime ketchup for my egg and chips...
Sorry, are you talking about Series 5 and the 2010 Christmas special of Doctor Who?
I am looking forwards to this. The first two series of TW seemed to struggle to find there true calling imo lurching from poignant stories to 'lets be rude Doctor Who' ones. CoE was a stunning and chilling drama so if the next series continues in that vein then I think it will be great.
I am looking forwards to this. The first two series of TW seemed to struggle to find there true calling imo lurching from poignant stories to 'lets be rude Doctor Who' ones. CoE was a stunning and chilling drama so if the next series continues in that vein then I think it will be great.
Sorry, are you talking about Series 5 and the 2010 Christmas special of Doctor Who?
When someone is trying to make a point, no matter how valid/invalid you think it is, it doesn't make you seem any more clever or bigger than the person you are arguing against to bring in something you don't like but the vast majority did. In fact it does the complete opposite, it makes both you and your argument appear very weak.
I really hope that the new series is a success, I think the format worked really well for CoE so lets hope they can pull it off this time.
What remains to be seen is wether this really is Torchwood or rather an American sci-fi show that just happens to feature Jack and Gwen. Either way it sounds like a fantastic story, with a very deep a human focus, and some amazing actors lined up so I can't wait to see it
I'm looking forward to the next series of Torchwood but I think they're changed the show too much in a short amount of time. This is only the fourth series and we've lost most of the cast, blown up the main set and moved locations!
But even so, I liked Children of Earth and I'm really excited for Miracle Day, the new characters sound interesting and Torchwood does dark plots brilliantly. Plus there's Captain Jack
Jack's the only reason I'm going to watch it, CoE may have been well made etc but it was too depressing for me, It just had no light in it at all and that really isn't my thing. If I want depressed I can do real life! Out of three friends who watched it one feels the same way, one loved it and the other wasn't sure, so we had endless discussions...anyway we all decided we'd like to know more about what happened to what was left of the Hub, the Rift, the weevils, all the alien tech etc as Jack never went back and Gwen only later, and besides what chance did she have of getting her hands on anything really important. And if the vortex manipulator survived then so could a lot of things.
Jack's the only reason I'm going to watch it, CoE may have been well made etc but it was too depressing for me, It just had no light in it at all and that really isn't my thing. If I want depressed I can do real life! Out of three friends who watched it one feels the same way, one loved it and the other wasn't sure, so we had endless discussions...anyway we all decided we'd like to know more about what happened to what was left of the Hub, the Rift, the weevils, all the alien tech etc as Jack never went back and Gwen only later, and besides what chance did she have of getting her hands on anything really important. And if the vortex manipulator survived then so could a lot of things.
I think a lot of people are wondering that, but if it's being made for the Yanks and pitched as a new show, I don't think we'll get an answer. It's a bad idea, I think. It'll be just another US sci-fi show with no links to its own past or to Doctor Who.
When someone is trying to make a point, no matter how valid/invalid you think it is, it doesn't make you seem any more clever or bigger than the person you are arguing against to bring in something you don't like but the vast majority did. In fact it does the complete opposite, it makes both you and your argument appear very weak.
especially when it's just a thinly veiled attempt to rehash a tired non-related topic of discussion all over again..;)
When someone is trying to make a point, no matter how valid/invalid you think it is, it doesn't make you seem any more clever or bigger than the person you are arguing against to bring in something you don't like but the vast majority did. In fact it does the complete opposite, it makes both you and your argument appear very weak.
Where is this vast majority? A few people on an Internet forum isn't a "vast majority". I wasn't trying to be clever.
Comments
There is nothing to say that TW had to have a specific format it had to follow no matter what, and that it shouldn't change according to what the person who created it in the first place wants to do with it. If that was the case DW wouldn't be where it was if it never dared to make changes. In the same way TW doesn't have to difined by specific locations or characters even.....maybe if we had five years of the same thing, and then all of a sudden it changed....but the fact that every year it has been given some sort of shake up...character wise, story format wise, location wise.....the fourth eries doing some other changes doesn't undermine its so called foundation either. The show wasn't called Torchwood: CARDIFF (the fact that this is only one base anyway, TW roots actually exist in Scotland) ...or TW:Jack,Ianto,Gwen,Owen,Tosh that they aren't allowed to go beyond these people and places....its just called Torchwood, which startted off about a groupd TW workers in Cardiff, and how they are where they are now dead or alive.
As for people knowing about TW now in Cardiff, well in all fairness, series 1 was mocked for the fact that they manage to be a secret organisation despite going around in a SUV with TW written in the side....so they embraced this mockery with open arms as the next step....and made the Joke that even an elderly lady knows who they are.....
the hub got blown apart...we all saw it...not by some small kitchen liquid made bomb, but a government funded bomb!!! we all saw the place in ruins.....do they really need to tell us in plain words that everything got destroyed, or is the fact that Jack's body was searched for, and later Gwen says she found Jack's vortex manipulator in the wreckage....suggesting that she went searching for things....so the wrekage wasn't left unsearched by nobody at all...who knows what she or the government found and put away.....but whatever so, that wasn't the main part of the whole COE story, just a part of it....surely you not suggesting that we be spoon fed every little detail Tony, and be told in detail rather than leave it to our tiny brains to decide that things may have not survived that blast???:eek:
As for the brother....he was part of the series 2 arc....and it ended there when Jack put him to sleep.....It could well be that he survived....but knowing if he did or didn't in a story that isn't about him is not important....how would they know for sure anyway? when Gwen or Johnson got the wreckage searched....who is to say they didn't find his remains..and if so, how would they know if it was him, considering they had many a body buried in TW.....so what was Jack going to say? "gwen did you find my brother's remians"....when he didn't even ask about Tosh's remains....he wasn't immortal like Jack was....so he really has no reason to question his survival....and he was hardly going to talk about him to Ianto or Gwen when because of Gray, Tosh and Owen died (latter for good)
Your making an issue of nothing really...not a plot element at all....just a character who was put away for good when the series arc for series 2 ended.....
On the other note........cannot wait for this!!!
I don't understand the fuss about making it clear what was destroyed in the explosion... Are they meant to spend 10 minutes listing everything at the beginning? That will captivate the new audience. The standard TV/Book/Film pattern will be put into practice and if they need something, it will have survived and be mentioned. If they don't, then it blew up. Kind of obvious 99% of things blew up, the whole place was just rubble.
I can't help thinking that it is just the usual moaning and superfan claiming. "I know they used to have a weevil, I wonder where it is". Yes, we all know but the rest of us assume it died. It is the books as canon crap all over again. The majority of the audience will not know/care/remember. The hardcore fans, us, saw the place blow up and saw the rubble/remains. I really don't need a list of what survived/perished.
Loving the new title, I hated New World. I think I would prefer just 'Miracle'. But still, it is exciting and looks like it will be huge now, which is great. I kind of want one more series of radio plays but that will never happen now.
Yeah because some "So called fans" actually knew that Grey was going to be a one off and wouldn't come back unless they had a damn good reason to bring him back.
The fact the actor was useless and actually sucked the life out of a character with a limited life mean that when Jack froze him in the hub he was dead anyway.
But how is "everything being blown up" an inconsistant with continuity????
How is not mentioning a character who's arc is arc is complete and I repeat complete.... three years ago, not making everything fit with established continiuty????
and why are you arguing that the audience be spoon fed becuase they are too dumb to take in the fact that once we have been shown things to be blown up...things are blown up.......do you remember how you argued for the Beast Below, and how you felt that not every detail not be needed to be shown or explained????
and here is another question....why can't you be consistant yourself before demanding consistancy from a blooming TV show????
Hey! I'm excited about this series. And Eggs and Chips!
Besides, If the Torchwood hub blew up. Then it blew up. Consider Gray dead until he returns. Oh, and the Weevils too. And all that tech down there. Imagine it destroyed.
That just gave me a thought. Wouldn't it be MUCH cooler if Naismith had gotten the Immortality Gate from Torchwood 3? He could mention his destruction from COE. That's the sort of reference I would write for.
Egg and Chips, Egg and chips you Philistine, every one knows you watch a drama while drinking beer and eating Pizza (Meat feast if your not a veggie)
Tell me about it. Especially fans with an enlarged sense of self entitlement who think that the show should be made to their specific blueprint even if it would be damaging to the shows status on tv.
agree!!!
See, that would have made sense! There's no way all that stuff would realistically have been totally destroyed.
Realistically???? are you for real yourself????:eek: You are talking about unreal things...made up sci-fi tech, made up characters who are at the mercy of the writer, made up hubs, blown up by a made up bomb!!!!! How realistic do you expect??? The Government wanted rid of TW....they were not going to go for a measly bomb that may not have an affect on alien tech or tombs where bodies were stored...so "realistically" speaking;) survival rate is low!
And anyway as I pointed out before, gwen found the vortex manipulator....suggesting that things may have survived....but we didn't need a list....they can bring in anything they want...or leave it as destroyed.....just like we didn't know what happend to the Doctor's chopped hand untill TW series 1, or if you didn't watch TW, then Utopia.....simples;)
But crazzy these things require a bit of intelligence from the viewer, you know like series 5. Those who don't understand it, might not have watched it properly or don't understand the genius of the writer;):p. It's so much better to spoonfeed everything:D:D.
It's a shame there are so many moaners already when it's not even started yet.
true say true say!!!!!
Sorry, are you talking about Series 5 and the 2010 Christmas special of Doctor Who?
No, that was fine, thanks.
Why do I keep rising to your bait?
well said....:)
When someone is trying to make a point, no matter how valid/invalid you think it is, it doesn't make you seem any more clever or bigger than the person you are arguing against to bring in something you don't like but the vast majority did. In fact it does the complete opposite, it makes both you and your argument appear very weak.
What remains to be seen is wether this really is Torchwood or rather an American sci-fi show that just happens to feature Jack and Gwen. Either way it sounds like a fantastic story, with a very deep a human focus, and some amazing actors lined up so I can't wait to see it
Jack's the only reason I'm going to watch it, CoE may have been well made etc but it was too depressing for me, It just had no light in it at all and that really isn't my thing. If I want depressed I can do real life! Out of three friends who watched it one feels the same way, one loved it and the other wasn't sure, so we had endless discussions...anyway we all decided we'd like to know more about what happened to what was left of the Hub, the Rift, the weevils, all the alien tech etc as Jack never went back and Gwen only later, and besides what chance did she have of getting her hands on anything really important. And if the vortex manipulator survived then so could a lot of things.
I think a lot of people are wondering that, but if it's being made for the Yanks and pitched as a new show, I don't think we'll get an answer. It's a bad idea, I think. It'll be just another US sci-fi show with no links to its own past or to Doctor Who.
especially when it's just a thinly veiled attempt to rehash a tired non-related topic of discussion all over again..;)
Where is this vast majority? A few people on an Internet forum isn't a "vast majority". I wasn't trying to be clever.
:rolleyes: