Mercedes and Fatboy.
Big Mo and her stupid laxatives.
Jack trying to act sincere with Ronnie.
Heather being onscreen.
Kat's orange face clashing with the The Vic living room decor.
I think Ronnie will commit suicide in prison or just be written off when she comes out. I think this whole plot has been designed to that conclusion. Even if the actress does want to return in the future and I suspect that given the way the character has been so demonised by EE I doubt that she would, I can't see it happening on a permanent basis again. I think Jack will probably leave at some point soon as well.
I don't agree, and it is better if they give Ronnie some time off screen to be in a psychiatric hospital and take it from there. People seem to be forgetting this is a woman who was raped by her father, they need to show that people who suffer child abuse can come through such things.
I do not think Ronnie's character is 'demonised' - she has carried out a terrible action, the way some people go on you would think she had committed a murder! Ridiculous!
Later on, if Kat recovers from all her (rightfully felt) anguish and hatred of Ronnie, EE should be exploring the parallels of the two of them, as both were abused and raped at 13. This seems to have been forgotten by some.
I think reading these forums, it goes to show how little understanding there is of what happens to someone's mentality when they are abused, as a child or a teenager, and the reprucussions are long lasting. Sadly.
when Sam returns after her break next year, I can see her & kat becoming friends, or at least semi friends in the Vic. :mad:
The EE writers have the memory of a goldfish, Im sure she'll be babysitting for them in a couple of years!:rolleyes:
In reality of course Kat & Alfie would never want to see her again, but this is EE land where everything is forgiven & forgotten in a few weeks!:rolleyes:
As is always the case with big reveals, the climax is full of drama but what follows is an inevitable period of grief for whoever has been hard done by. I'm not looking forward to endless scenes of Jack moping about.
It was nice to see Charlie return though, even if it's just briefly. It keeps things realistic too
I don't agree, and it is better if they give Ronnie some time off screen to be in a psychiatric hospital and take it from there. People seem to be forgetting this is a woman who was raped by her father, they need to show that people who suffer child abuse can come through such things.
I do not think Ronnie's character is 'demonised' - she has carried out a terrible action, the way some people go on you would think she had committed a murder! Ridiculous!
Later on, if Kat recovers from all her (rightfully felt) anguish and hatred of Ronnie, EE should be exploring the parallels of the two of them, as both were abused and raped at 13. This seems to have been forgotten by some.
I think reading these forums, it goes to show how little understanding there is of what happens to someone's mentality when they are abused, as a child or a teenager, and the reprucussions are long lasting. Sadly.
EE have made a bad mistake with this storyline in trying to compare the lives of Ronnie and Kat. Ronnie may have been raped by her father but that didn't result in her pregnancy and it just doesn't compare with Charlie bringing up Zoe as his own daughter when he had no idea at the time that his own brother had raped Kat causing her to get pregnant.
The storyline has been trumpeted as some kind of triumph in terms of childhood experiences etc. but it's almost as if EE have deliberately entangled Kat and Alfie up in Ronnie's tragedy for the sake of it under the pretence that they have some kind of shared bond of experience? 'You are the only person in the world who knows how that feels' I could not believe that line the other night how insulting is that to people around the world who have lost a child?
This storyline was a mistake and EE have shown themselves out of their depth with this conclusion by the nature of Kat's reaction to finding out her baby never actually died. She doesn't know how to react nobody would but by creating this false sense of hopelessness in terms of 'shared experiences' EE has by the nature of the conclusion prevents Kat from being able to empathise with Ronnie's predicament.
There was no parallel between Zoe's birth and largely happy life (despite the Den episode) and the tragedy of Danielle. Yet if EE had bothered to do its research properly from the beginning it would have plugged a storyline whereby Ronnie lost her new baby through a cot death and sought solace by temporarily kidnapping someone else's newborn.
At least that way the loss of James Branning could have been mourned properly by both his parents and Kat would have been able to empathise and deal with the aftermarth of Ronnie's actions. This way she never will.
Ronnie and Kat do not need to be friends for Ronnie to "return". Given the circumstances and if Kat saw Ronnie utterly broken, I could buy Kat "understanding" enough to let her be 1-2 years later, as long as she stayed away from Tommy. I don't see that as unrealistic given their backgrounds. I couldn't see Kat doing that at the moment though.
Oh I hate when all older people say that "you're young now, you're going to look back on it, all young people say they love each other" they said that about my relationship when I was 16. 6 years later still in the same relationship and they still haven't shut up.
I agree with this, my parents marriied when my dad was 23 and my mam was 17 way back in 1949, They met when my mam was a maid and my dad was a stable boy at the big house and it was love at first sight.They married and had 10 children (me being one of them) and are still together to this day. My dad is 85 and my mam is 78 and they still love each other as much to this day.
EE have made a bad mistake with this storyline in trying to compare the lives of Ronnie and Kat. Ronnie may have been raped by her father but that didn't result in her pregnancy and it just doesn't compare with Charlie bringing up Zoe as his own daughter when he had no idea at the time that his own brother had raped Kat causing her to get pregnant.
The storyline has been trumpeted as some kind of triumph in terms of childhood experiences etc. but it's almost as if EE have deliberately entangled Kat and Alfie up in Ronnie's tragedy for the sake of it under the pretence that they have some kind of shared bond of experience? 'You are the only person in the world who knows how that feels' I could not believe that line the other night how insulting is that to people around the world who have lost a child?
This storyline was a mistake and EE have shown themselves out of their depth with this conclusion by the nature of Kat's reaction to finding out her baby never actually died. She doesn't know how to react nobody would but by creating this false sense of hopelessness in terms of 'shared experiences' EE has by the nature of the conclusion prevents Kat from being able to empathise with Ronnie's predicament.
There was no parallel between Zoe's birth and largely happy life (despite the Den episode) and the tragedy of Danielle. Yet if EE had bothered to do its research properly from the beginning it would have plugged a storyline whereby Ronnie lost her new baby through a cot death and sought solace by temporarily kidnapping someone else's newborn.
At least that way the loss of James Branning could have been mourned properly by both his parents and Kat would have been able to empathise and deal with the aftermarth of Ronnie's actions. This way she never will.
EE have made a bad mistake with this storyline in trying to compare the lives of Ronnie and Kat. Ronnie may have been raped by her father but that didn't result in her pregnancy and it just doesn't compare with Charlie bringing up Zoe as his own daughter when he had no idea at the time that his own brother had raped Kat causing her to get pregnant.
Yes but unlike with Ronnie/Archie/Danielle there never were nor will there ever be scenes like we have gotten over the years with Kat/Charlie and Zoe. Like tonight. Kat and Charlie talking about what happened, Charlie saying it wasn't Kat's fault, Kat understand Charlie never really met to hurt her.
It's no competition but the fact is Ronnie has never had any upsides or happiness peak through like Kat. Kat got to go and wake up Zoe up on her birthday, comfort her etc. Like Ronnie said tonight - she can't undo or get closure on any of it - Danielle, Archie, James.
I don't get where all this 'it doesn't compare business' comes from.
People can come through trauma with bits of light - like Kat had. It's much more difficult when it just continues to get worse, and worse, and worse.
I was smiling at Charlie and Kat's scenes tonights, it's a comfort as fan of Kat to see her get the support she deserves.
EE have made a bad mistake with this storyline in trying to compare the lives of Ronnie and Kat. Ronnie may have been raped by her father but that didn't result in her pregnancy and it just doesn't compare with Charlie bringing up Zoe as his own daughter when he had no idea at the time that his own brother had raped Kat causing her to get pregnant.
The storyline has been trumpeted as some kind of triumph in terms of childhood experiences etc. but it's almost as if EE have deliberately entangled Kat and Alfie up in Ronnie's tragedy for the sake of it under the pretence that they have some kind of shared bond of experience?
This storyline was a mistake and EE have shown 'You are the only person in the world who knows how that feels' I could not believe that line the other night how insulting is that to people around the world who have lost a child?
themselves out of their depth with this conclusion by the nature of Kat's reaction to finding out her baby never actually died. She doesn't know how to react nobody would but by creating this false sense of hopelessness in terms of 'shared experiences' EE has by the nature of the conclusion prevents Kat from being able to empathise with Ronnie's predicament.
There was no parallel between Zoe's birth and largely happy life (despite the Den episode) and the tragedy of Danielle. Yet if EE had bothered to do its research properly from the beginning it would have plugged a storyline whereby Ronnie lost her new baby through a cot death and sought solace by temporarily kidnapping someone else's newborn.
At least that way the loss of James Branning could have been mourned properly by both his parents and Kat would have been able to empathise and deal with the aftermarth of Ronnie's actions. This way she never will.
BIB - Ronnie was raped by her father, and Kat was raped by her uncle! You dismiss this in such a trite way. :rolleyes: I know it is not exactly the same, but there are parallels. The loss of control over a life, their own lives, that is what I see. For Kat, it was her uncle, and she was made to live a lie? For Ronnie, no baby resulted, but she also had to lie, for years, about what really happened to her. I agree, it's not exactly the same but similar though.
BIB 2 - I personally think that line was the key - ironically, Ronnie is the only one who knows how Kat feels - I don't see this as insulting in any way?
BIB 3 - I disagree, I think she will to come around to some kind of understanding. And because, she will want to fill in the missing gaps of Tommy's life.
BIB - BIB 3 - I disagree, I think she will to come around to some kind of understanding. And because, she will want to fill in the missing gaps of Tommy's life.
I agree I think we will get a 2 hander between them before Ronnie goes to get the help she needs - maybe she promises Kat that she will get better
Jean's happy cos she's got a new baby to coo over.
Lol Mercy "Not ANOTHER dead body"
Jean's great, I love Jean as a character. I liked the way Kat just told her to shut up tonight and she doesn't take it personally. Like she knows she can be annoying
Oh that was last week, this week it's Tanya who's the love of his life. Who knows who it'll be next week?
Either way, Vanessa doesn't seem to figure in this 'love of his life' saga.
Ummm...it's a TV show. I'm pretty certain the aim was not to show Tommy "happier" with Kat, especially when at the moment a baby would be "unsettled"as they only start recognising who mum and dad are three months in
Nice scene with Kat giving the baby his first cuddle and I had a tear in my eye with the Ronnie/Jack scene. Wondered why we didn't see the Roxy/Ronnie scene. I'm also glad they showed the Branning family sticking by Ronnie in that they were aware and understanding that she was mentally ill. I always felt they would be like that given the family history and the various ties they have with Ronnie. So I'm glad they protrayed it as Ronnie turning her back on her family than the other way round.
Also nice scene with Kat and her dad, showing her her nerves were natural and she would be fine. It was a sweet scene and "finally" a Zoe mention.
I agree about the Branning's. It's nice seeing them circling the wagons in protection of Ronnie and not condemning her like some families would. They know she hasn't been 'right' for a long time so at least they now know why.
And I also agree re the Zoe mention. If you didn't know better you'd think that Kat had only given birth once. Nice to hear her referred to AND a bit of Charlie's past, how he worked night shift to look after Zoe during the day when Kat was at school and her mum at work. Love it when soaps give us a bit of history.
I think Ronnie will commit suicide in prison or just be written off when she comes out. I think this whole plot has been designed to that conclusion. Even if the actress does want to return in the future and I suspect that given the way the character has been so demonised by EE I doubt that she would, I can't see it happening on a permanent basis again. I think Jack will probably leave at some point soon as well.
I don't think she's been demonised TBH. It LOOKED bad but these episodes are tying it up nicely and showing, if there was any doubt, that Ronnie is mentally ill. She could easily make a return - but might have to give Kat a wide berth! :eek:
when Sam returns after her break next year, I can see her & kat becoming friends, or at least semi friends in the Vic. :mad:
The EE writers have the memory of a goldfish, Im sure she'll be babysitting for them in a couple of years!:rolleyes:
In reality of course Kat & Alfie would never want to see her again, but this is EE land where everything is forgiven & forgotten in a few weeks!:rolleyes:
LOL I would say 'ridiculous, it'll never happen' but this being a soap ANYTHING can happen
I thought the laxative thing was really pointless comedy thrust into the episode for no real reason. Ok I get it - those intrusive reporters kind of deserve it and it was easier for the storyline if they got lost, but it was just stupid.
Realistically, they'd come back though.
Max 'you're alright Jack,' Oh yeah I'm sure he's swell Max. I hate when people say things like in extremely upsetting times.
Why are the making Vanessa so ridiculously frivilous going shoe shopping when Max was to go the court?
The scenes of Jack needing his charger really got to me.
Whitney, she needs to take - like emotional self defence lessons or something so she learn to stop trusting people she just met.
I thought the laxative thing was really pointless comedy thrust into the episode for no real reason. Ok I get it - those intrusive reporters kind of deserve it and it was easier for the storyline if they got lost, but it was just stupid.
Realistically, they'd come back though.
Max 'you're alright Jack,' Oh yeah I'm sure he's swell Max. I hate when people say things like in extremely upsetting times.
Why are the making Vanessa so ridiculously frivilous going shoe shopping when Max was to go the court?
The scenes of Jack needing his charger really got to me.
Whitney, she needs to take - like emotional self defence lessons or something so she learn to stop trusting people she just met.
Totally agree re what Max said to Jack. Not even 'you'll be alright' which might be bad enough when someone feels like their world has collapsed ... but you ARE alright? Jack should have smacked him in the mouth.
Cant wait to see tonight..Only thing that spoils it for me is charlie..Dont like him as a character or actor.How long ago did he leave with a julias theme and now he's back and making out that he did nothing wrong...
She did it on the spur of the moment
She tried to reverse it but it was too late when James was discovered to be dead
She was then too ashamed/ frightened to own up.
Agreed. He deserves a lot more than what Ronnie gave him tonight.
Not being able to explain yourself/feelings/behaviours is absolutely fitting for someone who with mental instability. I found it utterly realistic that Ronnie couldn't really explain.
Of course Jack deserves more, but he was never going to get an aswner from one conversation obviously. Unfortunately it's just not possible nor that simple.
how about the details that matter like when she found him, what did she do to revive him, how she managed to be "with it" enough to roam the square knocking on doors for help for 5 mins before coming to the one place where help was before loosing it and swoping the babies, why she lied to him, why she didnt tell him when he stepped out the car, why she lied for so long afterwards, why she was quick enough to have a pop at the midwife who noticed the notes, the list goes on.
instead we got 2 nos, something about danielle & archie, im evil it & all turns to dust, and a basic thats my final word now sod off find a new shag and leave me alone. Shes not in the position to call the shots now, and she should have explained it to jack in fine detail in the hopes that he could understand, she at least owes him that - mad or not.
how about the details that matter like when she found him, what did she do to revive him, how she managed to be "with it" enough to roam the square knocking on doors for help for 5 mins before coming to the one place where help was before loosing it and swoping the babies, why she lied to him, why she didnt tell him when he stepped out the car, why she lied for so long afterwards, why she was quick enough to have a pop at the midwife who noticed the notes, the list goes on.
instead we got 2 nos, something about danielle & archie, im evil it & all turns to dust, and a basic thats my final word now sod off find a new shag and leave me alone. Shes not in the position to call the shots now, and she should have explained it to jack in fine detail in the hopes that he could understand, she at least owes him that - mad or not.
It's not that simple to say Ronnie owes Jack so she should explain. I'm not going to bother explaining. But I would have found it much less realistic for Ronnie to sit across the table, going through every little detail of what happened.
Comments
You should write the BBC synopsis!:D:D
I don't agree, and it is better if they give Ronnie some time off screen to be in a psychiatric hospital and take it from there. People seem to be forgetting this is a woman who was raped by her father, they need to show that people who suffer child abuse can come through such things.
I do not think Ronnie's character is 'demonised' - she has carried out a terrible action, the way some people go on you would think she had committed a murder! Ridiculous!
Later on, if Kat recovers from all her (rightfully felt) anguish and hatred of Ronnie, EE should be exploring the parallels of the two of them, as both were abused and raped at 13. This seems to have been forgotten by some.
I think reading these forums, it goes to show how little understanding there is of what happens to someone's mentality when they are abused, as a child or a teenager, and the reprucussions are long lasting. Sadly.
I agree with you everyone has different tastes and whille i don't find him attractive others do.
The EE writers have the memory of a goldfish, Im sure she'll be babysitting for them in a couple of years!:rolleyes:
In reality of course Kat & Alfie would never want to see her again, but this is EE land where everything is forgiven & forgotten in a few weeks!:rolleyes:
As is always the case with big reveals, the climax is full of drama but what follows is an inevitable period of grief for whoever has been hard done by. I'm not looking forward to endless scenes of Jack moping about.
It was nice to see Charlie return though, even if it's just briefly. It keeps things realistic too
EE have made a bad mistake with this storyline in trying to compare the lives of Ronnie and Kat. Ronnie may have been raped by her father but that didn't result in her pregnancy and it just doesn't compare with Charlie bringing up Zoe as his own daughter when he had no idea at the time that his own brother had raped Kat causing her to get pregnant.
The storyline has been trumpeted as some kind of triumph in terms of childhood experiences etc. but it's almost as if EE have deliberately entangled Kat and Alfie up in Ronnie's tragedy for the sake of it under the pretence that they have some kind of shared bond of experience? 'You are the only person in the world who knows how that feels' I could not believe that line the other night how insulting is that to people around the world who have lost a child?
This storyline was a mistake and EE have shown themselves out of their depth with this conclusion by the nature of Kat's reaction to finding out her baby never actually died. She doesn't know how to react nobody would but by creating this false sense of hopelessness in terms of 'shared experiences' EE has by the nature of the conclusion prevents Kat from being able to empathise with Ronnie's predicament.
There was no parallel between Zoe's birth and largely happy life (despite the Den episode) and the tragedy of Danielle. Yet if EE had bothered to do its research properly from the beginning it would have plugged a storyline whereby Ronnie lost her new baby through a cot death and sought solace by temporarily kidnapping someone else's newborn.
At least that way the loss of James Branning could have been mourned properly by both his parents and Kat would have been able to empathise and deal with the aftermarth of Ronnie's actions. This way she never will.
I agree with this, my parents marriied when my dad was 23 and my mam was 17 way back in 1949, They met when my mam was a maid and my dad was a stable boy at the big house and it was love at first sight.They married and had 10 children (me being one of them) and are still together to this day. My dad is 85 and my mam is 78 and they still love each other as much to this day.
I totally agree with this post
Yes but unlike with Ronnie/Archie/Danielle there never were nor will there ever be scenes like we have gotten over the years with Kat/Charlie and Zoe. Like tonight. Kat and Charlie talking about what happened, Charlie saying it wasn't Kat's fault, Kat understand Charlie never really met to hurt her.
It's no competition but the fact is Ronnie has never had any upsides or happiness peak through like Kat. Kat got to go and wake up Zoe up on her birthday, comfort her etc. Like Ronnie said tonight - she can't undo or get closure on any of it - Danielle, Archie, James.
I don't get where all this 'it doesn't compare business' comes from.
People can come through trauma with bits of light - like Kat had. It's much more difficult when it just continues to get worse, and worse, and worse.
I was smiling at Charlie and Kat's scenes tonights, it's a comfort as fan of Kat to see her get the support she deserves.
BIB - Ronnie was raped by her father, and Kat was raped by her uncle! You dismiss this in such a trite way. :rolleyes: I know it is not exactly the same, but there are parallels. The loss of control over a life, their own lives, that is what I see. For Kat, it was her uncle, and she was made to live a lie? For Ronnie, no baby resulted, but she also had to lie, for years, about what really happened to her. I agree, it's not exactly the same but similar though.
BIB 2 - I personally think that line was the key - ironically, Ronnie is the only one who knows how Kat feels - I don't see this as insulting in any way?
BIB 3 - I disagree, I think she will to come around to some kind of understanding. And because, she will want to fill in the missing gaps of Tommy's life.
Don't think it was EE this time. I think that was the news of the death of Liz Sladen from Dr WHo that caused the crash:(
I agree I think we will get a 2 hander between them before Ronnie goes to get the help she needs - maybe she promises Kat that she will get better
Isn't he just? He's a little ray of sunshine, or THEY are little rays of sunshine if they're using twins.
To be fair, you can hardly blame him can you, not exactly laugh a minute those two!
Jean's great, I love Jean as a character. I liked the way Kat just told her to shut up tonight and she doesn't take it personally. Like she knows she can be annoying
And THAT was a good one-liner from Mercy!
Very good point. Wasn't bothered about that baby at all was he?
How can someone who has gone through so much still stay so trusting and, as you say, totally naive? It's unbelievable!
Ha! Nice one Mo.
Oh that was last week, this week it's Tanya who's the love of his life. Who knows who it'll be next week?
Either way, Vanessa doesn't seem to figure in this 'love of his life' saga.
Good to see him
Agreed.
Me too!
Probably admiring himself in a mirror somewhere.
I agree about the Branning's. It's nice seeing them circling the wagons in protection of Ronnie and not condemning her like some families would. They know she hasn't been 'right' for a long time so at least they now know why.
And I also agree re the Zoe mention. If you didn't know better you'd think that Kat had only given birth once. Nice to hear her referred to AND a bit of Charlie's past, how he worked night shift to look after Zoe during the day when Kat was at school and her mum at work. Love it when soaps give us a bit of history.
I don't think she's been demonised TBH. It LOOKED bad but these episodes are tying it up nicely and showing, if there was any doubt, that Ronnie is mentally ill. She could easily make a return - but might have to give Kat a wide berth! :eek:
LOL I would say 'ridiculous, it'll never happen' but this being a soap ANYTHING can happen
Realistically, they'd come back though.
Max 'you're alright Jack,' Oh yeah I'm sure he's swell Max. I hate when people say things like in extremely upsetting times.
Why are the making Vanessa so ridiculously frivilous going shoe shopping when Max was to go the court?
The scenes of Jack needing his charger really got to me.
Whitney, she needs to take - like emotional self defence lessons or something so she learn to stop trusting people she just met.
Totally agree re what Max said to Jack. Not even 'you'll be alright' which might be bad enough when someone feels like their world has collapsed ... but you ARE alright? Jack should have smacked him in the mouth.
I would say that she is well rounded rather than pointless:)
She's a vile creature. I hope the Police prosecute her:mad:
when he looks and sounds like Ricky Butcher
Handing out cups of tea spiked with laxatives is not exactly fine form:cool:
Me too
Above average episode
Agreed. He deserves a lot more than what Ronnie gave him tonight.
But what else could she say?
She did it on the spur of the moment
She tried to reverse it but it was too late when James was discovered to be dead
She was then too ashamed/ frightened to own up.
Not being able to explain yourself/feelings/behaviours is absolutely fitting for someone who with mental instability. I found it utterly realistic that Ronnie couldn't really explain.
Of course Jack deserves more, but he was never going to get an aswner from one conversation obviously. Unfortunately it's just not possible nor that simple.
instead we got 2 nos, something about danielle & archie, im evil it & all turns to dust, and a basic thats my final word now sod off find a new shag and leave me alone. Shes not in the position to call the shots now, and she should have explained it to jack in fine detail in the hopes that he could understand, she at least owes him that - mad or not.
It's not that simple to say Ronnie owes Jack so she should explain. I'm not going to bother explaining. But I would have found it much less realistic for Ronnie to sit across the table, going through every little detail of what happened.