I loved both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight...both were outstanding additions to the series and expertly directed by Mr Nolan...more 'realistic' i guess...but i think Michael Keaton in Tim Burton's offerings nailed it, he was brilliant at portraying the tortured awkwardness of batman, beautifully dark, gothic gotham city was spot on and the villains...although well known ones, were brilliantly cast...Who can fault Jack nicholson's Joker and Danny DeVito's performance as the penguin is much under-rated in IMHO
Didn't know it was that underappeciated, it just simply had a classic sequel. Unfortunately for BB this sequel conicided with an all time great performance, real life death and unbelievable box office success.
Personally, I think BB is the better "superhero" movie, whereas TDK is more epic crime drama. Both are great and very different movies imo. However, I still feel that Superman (1978) and Batman (1989) are the quintessential superhero films.
I always found the story itself more interesting than any single 'performance' in The Dark Knight. No one ever talks about how great the script was which is a shame. Everyone raves about Heath Ledger's legendary performance. What I found most interesting about the story was the thread of the Harvey Dent/Two face character. He is actually the centre piece of The Dark Knight and it's him who Batman, Gordon and The Joker fight over. Also as always Gary Oldman was totally overlooked. I thought he gave just as good a performance as Heath Ledger did, in his own way. His performance is so understated. Gordon is the moral centre piece of the film I thought and Oldman deserved an Oscar nod.
It's unfair that The Dark Knight isn't appreciated as a film more. Yes Heath Ledger was fantastic and thoroughly deserved his Oscar but the film as a whole is a masterpiece. From Chris Nolan's directing to the script to the fanastic performances and the action set pieces, all of it was fantastic.
As for Batman Begins that's just a perfect superhero origin film. It's the first time in a Batman film that I cared about any of the characters.
BB is certainly not underappreciated in my household; as both me and my brother consider it to be a stronger film than TDK. I would go so far as to say that BB is my favourite super hero movie. While TDK is undoubtedly a good film, I feel like they tried to cram too much into 1 movie. As the OP said, a lot of people who like TDK didn't even see BB... which I think proves that TDK gained a lot of popularity from people jumping on the Heath Ledger band-wagon.
I always found the story itself more interesting than any single 'performance' in The Dark Knight. No one ever talks about how great the script was which is a shame. Everyone raves about Heath Ledger's legendary performance. What I found most interesting about the story was the thread of the Harvey Dent/Two face character. He is actually the centre piece of The Dark Knight and it's him who Batman, Gordon and The Joker fight over. Also as always Gary Oldman was totally overlooked. I thought he gave just as good a performance as Heath Ledger did, in his own way. His performance is so understated. Gordon is the moral centre piece of the film I thought and Oldman deserved an Oscar nod.
It's unfair that The Dark Knight isn't appreciated as a film more. Yes Heath Ledger was fantastic and thoroughly deserved his Oscar but the film as a whole is a masterpiece. From Chris Nolan's directing to the script to the fanastic performances and the action set pieces, all of it was fantastic.
As for Batman Begins that's just a perfect superhero origin film. It's the first time in a Batman film that I cared about any of the characters.
Agree with everything here. I love the theme of escalation in it and it does great at starting off slowly and gradually building up to a big climax.
Are you kidding. This movie is ridiculously overrated. There are many better comic book movies but this has acquired a reputation as being one of the best.
You'll find lots of people these days saying it's better than the Dark Night because of the Dark Night's popularity
Dark Night was a great movie, Batman Begins was okay.
You'll find lots of people these days saying it's better than the Dark Night because of the Dark Night's popularity
Either that or, y'know, because these people actually believe Batman Begins really is a better film?
Which I believe it is. Better structured, weaves a more coherent story and has superior writing. What TDK's popularity has to do with this opinion I have no idea...
I've always felt that this film doesn't get the crdeit it's due. I always here films like Spider-Man 2, X-Men2 and obviously The Dark Knight being considered the greatest comic book movies but not Batman Begins. My friends who loved TDK have never even seen BB. I always thought Batman Begins was a gem of a film, quite possible the best comic adaptation I've ever seen. TDK was a unique film but without Batman Begins there would never have been TDK.
Christopher Nolan did a fantastic job with bringing a gritty realistic adaptation and characters you actually cared about to the Batman franchise. The Dark Knight is one of my favourite films but I think that Batman Begins is great also.
I've tried hard to like Batman Begins and TDK but I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Both films have so much wrong with them and to be honest I prefer Tim Burton's Batman films.
I'm with you OP, I'm a big Bat fan but give me a choice between BB and TDK and the former will win out. While TDK is spectacular, I feel that BB is the best comic book adaptation out there. Visiually, I love it, as Gotham looks like Gotham rather than generic [insert City here].
Crucially, I find the story more engaging on an emotional level. I'm really hoping that TDKR brings back this emotional core to the story. Going by the teaser, I am hopeful that this will be the case.
I think I prefer Batman Begins to The Dark Knight.
Me too. Love the whole story of Bruce joining the League Of Shadows, then building his armoury with Alfred & Fox. I also prefer Holmes as the love interest. Scarecrow & the asylum was superb. I also see it as more of a Batman film than TDK.
Of course, TDK is a fantastic film in itself but BB just edges it for me.
Definitely prefer 'Batman Begins'...in fact it's without doubt my all time favourite comic book flavoured movie.
I wrote the following (on another forum) when 'The Dark Knight' was originally released and think it still sums up quite nicely why TDK didn't, for me at least, either equal or surpass BB:
This movie had a lot to live up to as IMO 'Batman Begins' was pretty much a perfect movie and just gets better & better every time I see it. On top of that, I had concerns that I would find Heath Ledger's final performance distracting more than anything else as he was an actor that I rated quite highly & was greatly saddened by his death (& the circumstances surrounding it).
Spoilers Ahead
So, is it as good as the previous film? In one word, no. But I'm sure that there will be many people that will prefer this to the 'original' & that just demonstrates how good 'The Dark Knight' actually is (I certainly can't see it not finishing in my 'top three' of 2008).
There were many things that I loved about the new movie but I think I'll get the things that I didn't like out of the way first;
1) In 'Batman Begins', Bruce Wayne joins a secret society of Ninjas who train him to be one of them & when he eventually returns to Gotham his combat skills simply outclass that of the city's criminal element (even when the 'League Of Shadows' arrive, they can't beat him). But in 'The Dark Knight', this training seems to have been lost, yes he can still 'handle' himself but no where near to the extent of the previous movie (he struggles to deal with being attacked by a Rottweiler at the beginning of the movie).
2) I also didn't appreciate the visual changes that made to Gotham City, it now doesn't look any different to your 'stereotypical' American City & is so well lit that Batman is no longer able to sustain his image of being something more than human, he's just a man running around in padded suit.
3) Although it was nice to 'The Scarecrow' make an appearance, it was far too brief & I didn't like that they'd reduced him to being just another petty criminal.
4) Maggie Gyllenhaal is a great actress but she really wasn't the right choice for the role of 'Rachel', she's really underused in this film & is better playing more 'complicated' characters (roles that Katie Holmes would probably struggle with).
5) I certainly didn't like the idea of Batman travelling to Hong Kong in order to retrieve Lau & the method of retrieval he used, it made the financial resources Batman has very obvious which in turn greatly reduces the list of possible suspects for the man behind the mask.
6) I also think that original edit of this movie has been trimmed (every so slightly) in order to get it's 12A rating, there are a couple of scenes where the continuity isn't quite seemless & it feels like you've blinked & missed something (even though you didn't). Hopefully when this film is released on DVD (with a 15 certificate) it'll be uncut.
However, all of the above aren't really any more than 'niggles' and are more than compensated for by 'meat' of the film which consists of the impact that Heath Ledger's 'The Joker' has on the status quo of law & order in Gotham City.
From the beginning it's obvious how psychotic his character is but as the film progresses there's an increasing realisation of just how much method there is contained in his particular brand of madness. Both Batman & Gotham City's Police Department simply aren't able to deal with a man that wants nothing more than to 'see the world burn' & in the end Batman is forced into making a pretty extreme decision to prevent the damage already done by The Joker from becoming irreversible.
The Joker is a superbly written part and is very well played by Heath Ledger, it may not be quite worthy of winning an Oscar but it unquestionably merits a nomination at the very least (there were so many great moments involving this character but my favourite was probably when he first divulges how he received his facial scars & then completely changes the story on the next occasion, which really highlighted his desire to simply unnerve people rather provide them (& us) with an actual explaination/justification of what he was doing).
Although Heath Ledger does steal the show it's also worth mentioning that Aaron Eckhart was good VFM as Harvey Dent/Two Face & I was impressed with the look of the character post explosion, definitely more extreme than I was expecting & his descent into madness was reasonably believable (Bale, Caine & Oldham were all of a similar standard performance-wise to the previous movie).
So overall, a great if not quite perfect movie that IMO is definitely worth the trip & cost of going to the cinema...
I've seen them all but Nolan's version is a far better origin story that Burton's.
Christian Bale portrays the conflict just as well as Micheal Keaton and there both equally good in that role.
Heath Ledger was the better Joker, he portrayed The Joker as it's meant to be which is psychotic killer and the evil circus clown that Nicholson took. I just don't think Nicholson had the dark edge to the performance that Ledger did .
Gary Oldman is often over looked and is perfect as Jim Gordon and much better choice than Pat Hingle.
Batman Begins laid the ground work and TDK continued to build the relationships between character. I slightly prefer TDK as the finale with the sonar vision is a great piece of cinema, it's just a shame they killed Two Face.
Can't wait for the final chapter of Nolan's trilogy
BB produced the best origin story I've seen. So much so in fact, Christian Bale nailed Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne stole the lime light this time, not the Bat. The main problem I had was that Scarecrow was not given the true chance of being the main villain. His scenes were fantastic, the visions where creepy and they could have played on that more to finish on a big finale. The Dark Circle of ninjas really was no match in terms of impact of fear
Rubbish movie, watched it the other day. Dark Knight was sooo much better. It's probably a cliche now but Heath Ledger was awesome. He acts alone is better than all of the Batman Begins movie :cool:
I've always preferred Batman Begins over The Dark Knight. Begins made more on an impact on me where as TDK had so many faults with it that I could just never understand why so many people regard it as something of a masterpiece which it really isn't.
At the risk of sounding like a cynical and jaded journalist, oh wait I am one, I don't think the Dark Knight would have received anywhere near the attention/cult status it has done if Heath Ledger hadn't died.
His performance is superb, don't get me wrong, and the film itself is very good, I just don't think it justifies all the reverence. Both BB and TDK are very good re-examinations of a story that most people, and certainly any comic fans, are incredibly familiar with.
Personally Michael Keaton and Tim Burton's first two films will always be my favourites but that's simply because they were my "original" film versions and I thought Kim Basinger made a fabulous Vicki Vale and I really don't like Katie Holmes at all and though Maggie Gyllenhaal was wasted.
I must admit I do still chuckle at the TV version though.
At the risk of sounding like a cynical and jaded journalist, oh wait I am one, I don't think the Dark Knight would have received anywhere near the attention/cult status it has done if Heath Ledger hadn't died.
His performance is superb, don't get me wrong, and the film itself is very good, I just don't think it justifies all the reverence. Both BB and TDK are very good re-examinations of a story that most people, and certainly any comic fans, are incredibly familiar with.
Personally Michael Keaton and Tim Burton's first two films will always be my favourites but that's simply because they were my "original" film versions and I thought Kim Basinger made a fabulous Vicki Vale and I really don't like Katie Holmes at all and though Maggie Gyllenhaal was wasted.
I must admit I do still chuckle at the TV version though.
Heath Ledger made The Dark Knight into the greatest superhero movie ever, Tim Burton's movies don't come close. They look the same as every other Tim Burton movie only it happens to have Batman in it :rolleyes:
Heath Ledger made The Dark Knight into the greatest superhero movie ever...
Oh grow up. He did a great job, but he did not single handedly it the greatest superhero movie ever. If you do think that then you are very naive indeed.
I actually avoided this movie for a few years, because I simply cant stand Bale.
However, I was tbh, highly impressed when I did eventually see it.The tone and setting of the film are pretty much perfect IMO.
That said, I still prefer the two Burton movies-Keaton I found very engaging in the lead role and Nicholson and especially De-Vito in Returns where sensational.
Heath Ledger made The Dark Knight into the greatest superhero movie ever, Tim Burton's movies don't come close. They look the same as every other Tim Burton movie only it happens to have Batman in it :rolleyes:
It's fanboys like you who annoy me. There's so much more to The Dark Knight than Ledger's performance. I love both Begins and TDK because they're not just superhero/comic book films, they're more than that.
Oh and Tim Burton's films I thought were pretty good, I liked the gothic feel to them. They were my my favourite superhero films during my childhood. I do now prefer Nolan's more grounded approach though.
Of Nolan's Batman, I'd go for BB too. Even though I don't much care of it, I can at least remember a few things about it. Which is more than can be said about TDK. Ledger's performance aside, I can barely recall a thing about it. Never seen a more unmemorable blockbuster*
Much prefer Burton's Gothic Batman. More overly stylised, but at least he brings us a world in which you could believe Batman would exist in. A hurdle the Nolan films never quite surmount.
*oh, hang on. Some ferries are going to blow up, but then don't. That's TDK, isn't it?
Comments
Personally, I think BB is the better "superhero" movie, whereas TDK is more epic crime drama. Both are great and very different movies imo. However, I still feel that Superman (1978) and Batman (1989) are the quintessential superhero films.
It's unfair that The Dark Knight isn't appreciated as a film more. Yes Heath Ledger was fantastic and thoroughly deserved his Oscar but the film as a whole is a masterpiece. From Chris Nolan's directing to the script to the fanastic performances and the action set pieces, all of it was fantastic.
As for Batman Begins that's just a perfect superhero origin film. It's the first time in a Batman film that I cared about any of the characters.
Agree with everything here. I love the theme of escalation in it and it does great at starting off slowly and gradually building up to a big climax.
You'll find lots of people these days saying it's better than the Dark Night because of the Dark Night's popularity
Dark Night was a great movie, Batman Begins was okay.
Spiderman 2 and x men 2 are so much better
Which I believe it is. Better structured, weaves a more coherent story and has superior writing. What TDK's popularity has to do with this opinion I have no idea...
Crucially, I find the story more engaging on an emotional level. I'm really hoping that TDKR brings back this emotional core to the story. Going by the teaser, I am hopeful that this will be the case.
Me too. Love the whole story of Bruce joining the League Of Shadows, then building his armoury with Alfred & Fox. I also prefer Holmes as the love interest. Scarecrow & the asylum was superb. I also see it as more of a Batman film than TDK.
Of course, TDK is a fantastic film in itself but BB just edges it for me.
I wrote the following (on another forum) when 'The Dark Knight' was originally released and think it still sums up quite nicely why TDK didn't, for me at least, either equal or surpass BB:
This movie had a lot to live up to as IMO 'Batman Begins' was pretty much a perfect movie and just gets better & better every time I see it. On top of that, I had concerns that I would find Heath Ledger's final performance distracting more than anything else as he was an actor that I rated quite highly & was greatly saddened by his death (& the circumstances surrounding it).
Spoilers Ahead
So, is it as good as the previous film? In one word, no. But I'm sure that there will be many people that will prefer this to the 'original' & that just demonstrates how good 'The Dark Knight' actually is (I certainly can't see it not finishing in my 'top three' of 2008).
There were many things that I loved about the new movie but I think I'll get the things that I didn't like out of the way first;
1) In 'Batman Begins', Bruce Wayne joins a secret society of Ninjas who train him to be one of them & when he eventually returns to Gotham his combat skills simply outclass that of the city's criminal element (even when the 'League Of Shadows' arrive, they can't beat him). But in 'The Dark Knight', this training seems to have been lost, yes he can still 'handle' himself but no where near to the extent of the previous movie (he struggles to deal with being attacked by a Rottweiler at the beginning of the movie).
2) I also didn't appreciate the visual changes that made to Gotham City, it now doesn't look any different to your 'stereotypical' American City & is so well lit that Batman is no longer able to sustain his image of being something more than human, he's just a man running around in padded suit.
3) Although it was nice to 'The Scarecrow' make an appearance, it was far too brief & I didn't like that they'd reduced him to being just another petty criminal.
4) Maggie Gyllenhaal is a great actress but she really wasn't the right choice for the role of 'Rachel', she's really underused in this film & is better playing more 'complicated' characters (roles that Katie Holmes would probably struggle with).
5) I certainly didn't like the idea of Batman travelling to Hong Kong in order to retrieve Lau & the method of retrieval he used, it made the financial resources Batman has very obvious which in turn greatly reduces the list of possible suspects for the man behind the mask.
6) I also think that original edit of this movie has been trimmed (every so slightly) in order to get it's 12A rating, there are a couple of scenes where the continuity isn't quite seemless & it feels like you've blinked & missed something (even though you didn't). Hopefully when this film is released on DVD (with a 15 certificate) it'll be uncut.
However, all of the above aren't really any more than 'niggles' and are more than compensated for by 'meat' of the film which consists of the impact that Heath Ledger's 'The Joker' has on the status quo of law & order in Gotham City.
From the beginning it's obvious how psychotic his character is but as the film progresses there's an increasing realisation of just how much method there is contained in his particular brand of madness. Both Batman & Gotham City's Police Department simply aren't able to deal with a man that wants nothing more than to 'see the world burn' & in the end Batman is forced into making a pretty extreme decision to prevent the damage already done by The Joker from becoming irreversible.
The Joker is a superbly written part and is very well played by Heath Ledger, it may not be quite worthy of winning an Oscar but it unquestionably merits a nomination at the very least (there were so many great moments involving this character but my favourite was probably when he first divulges how he received his facial scars & then completely changes the story on the next occasion, which really highlighted his desire to simply unnerve people rather provide them (& us) with an actual explaination/justification of what he was doing).
Although Heath Ledger does steal the show it's also worth mentioning that Aaron Eckhart was good VFM as Harvey Dent/Two Face & I was impressed with the look of the character post explosion, definitely more extreme than I was expecting & his descent into madness was reasonably believable (Bale, Caine & Oldham were all of a similar standard performance-wise to the previous movie).
So overall, a great if not quite perfect movie that IMO is definitely worth the trip & cost of going to the cinema...
Christian Bale portrays the conflict just as well as Micheal Keaton and there both equally good in that role.
Heath Ledger was the better Joker, he portrayed The Joker as it's meant to be which is psychotic killer and the evil circus clown that Nicholson took. I just don't think Nicholson had the dark edge to the performance that Ledger did
Gary Oldman is often over looked and is perfect as Jim Gordon and much better choice than Pat Hingle.
Batman Begins laid the ground work and TDK continued to build the relationships between character. I slightly prefer TDK as the finale with the sonar vision is a great piece of cinema, it's just a shame they killed Two Face.
Can't wait for the final chapter of Nolan's trilogy
Gerrof. 'Batman Begins' is a good super hero movie. You are just crying for attention.
The first two modern Batman movies, directed by Tim Burton, are the best ones.
His performance is superb, don't get me wrong, and the film itself is very good, I just don't think it justifies all the reverence. Both BB and TDK are very good re-examinations of a story that most people, and certainly any comic fans, are incredibly familiar with.
Personally Michael Keaton and Tim Burton's first two films will always be my favourites but that's simply because they were my "original" film versions and I thought Kim Basinger made a fabulous Vicki Vale and I really don't like Katie Holmes at all and though Maggie Gyllenhaal was wasted.
I must admit I do still chuckle at the TV version though.
Heath Ledger made The Dark Knight into the greatest superhero movie ever, Tim Burton's movies don't come close. They look the same as every other Tim Burton movie only it happens to have Batman in it :rolleyes:
Oh grow up. He did a great job, but he did not single handedly it the greatest superhero movie ever. If you do think that then you are very naive indeed.
However, I was tbh, highly impressed when I did eventually see it.The tone and setting of the film are pretty much perfect IMO.
That said, I still prefer the two Burton movies-Keaton I found very engaging in the lead role and Nicholson and especially De-Vito in Returns where sensational.
I still cant stand Bale though.
It's fanboys like you who annoy me. There's so much more to The Dark Knight than Ledger's performance. I love both Begins and TDK because they're not just superhero/comic book films, they're more than that.
Oh and Tim Burton's films I thought were pretty good, I liked the gothic feel to them. They were my my favourite superhero films during my childhood. I do now prefer Nolan's more grounded approach though.
Much prefer Burton's Gothic Batman. More overly stylised, but at least he brings us a world in which you could believe Batman would exist in. A hurdle the Nolan films never quite surmount.
*oh, hang on. Some ferries are going to blow up, but then don't. That's TDK, isn't it?