I'd prefer watching people dancing to the music normally associated with that dance.
Yep.
Dance, pretty much by definition, is "moving to the music".
If you change the music, you change the dance.
Whilst of course there is some latitude for experimentation and flexibility, and creativity should always be encouraged in these areas, there are limits.
And trying to do a Salsa to either "Let Me Entertain You" or, even worse, "I'm Still Standing" is just impossible. The basic fundamental rhythm of the dance form does not fit either of those tracks.
The only tracks on Saturday that made any sort of musical sense were "Valerie" (Quickstep), "Spice Up Your Life" (Samba), and "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" (Jive).
Dance, pretty much by definition, is "moving to the music".
If you change the music, you change the dance.
Whilst of course there is some latitude for experimentation and flexibility, and creativity should always be encouraged in these areas, there are limits.
And trying to do a Salsa to either "Let Me Entertain You" or, even worse, "I'm Still Standing" is just impossible. The basic fundamental rhythm of the dance form does not fit either of those tracks.
The only tracks on Saturday that made any sort of musical sense were "Valerie" (Quickstep), "Spice Up Your Life" (Samba), and "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" (Jive).
Really? : - 0 is someone really obsessing about that?
Yep. There are people on here who keep track of how much time each couple gets on ITT. It happens every year once someone thinks certain couples are getting more air time than others.
Personally I think Come On Eileen was the worst music choice on Saturday and the worst in recent memory for me.
Yep. There are people on here who keep track of how much time each couple gets on ITT. It happens every year once someone thinks certain couples are getting more air time than others.
Personally I think Come On Eileen was the worst music choice on Saturday and the worst in recent memory for me.
We agree again!
'Come On Eileen' was just beyond ridiculous. No wonder Anita was stomping around - that track is about as far away from a samba as you can get.
I noticed on last night's ITT that Craig did not refer to the music when commenting on the lack of hip action in Robbie and Harry's salsas. Clearly it wouldn't be the 'done thing' to criticise the music choices, even though they must be in part responsible ... :rolleyes:
unfortunately, the ratings don't always reflect the quality of the show. Eastenders springs to mind.
You say that but Charlie Brooker showed a bunch of Americans EE and they all praised it. Most of US soaps have non-existent acting and plots apparently.
I'm sort of in the middle on this one - I think SCD has lost something I miss the days where everyone started off doing one of two dances until about halfway through the competition and it was obvious what those dances were. I don't mind the props per see but it's the 'faffing 'abart' that gets to me. The contestants this year are not the best bunch we've ever seen (I think that was series five) but they are not the worst (stand up series seven) although I grant you they're not the most charismatic bunch - Russell (no pun intended) and Nancy (who was certainly a unique to SCD) excepted. Alex at the top of the leaderboard has also proved that someone from the middle ranks can rise to the top (even if it is in a week where the dancing on the whole was a bit underwelming).
I agree that the music choices are uninspired (and I'm willing to take the word of the less rhymically challenged than myself that they are just plain wrong in a lot of cases - not that that's new even I could tell that Zoe Lucker was disadvantated by being allocated the Flo and the Machine version of 'You've Got the Love' for her paso) - there have been a lot of tracks we've heard before used (surely there are more British artists worth dancing to than Elt) and I had to watch Alex's tango twice because the incongruity of someone dancing to 'when you want to suck it to' on a family entertainment show was distracting me from watching the actual dance the first time around. I too miss some old pros and think Alesha as a judge is an abomination.
However - my favourite series was five and I remember a lot of grumbling at the time about gimmicks like the Jordan/Logan wife swap, soap opera elements taking over the show, the dance-off, Arlene's foot in mouth comments about to Ola being a pole being used as a pole and other things so complaining that the show has lost its way is nothing new. At least people we now have contestants doing two dances before they're kicked off and no chance for the judges to keep their pets on matter what the majority of the voting public think. Things get better, things get worse and hopefully if we keep hoping then the bad things will be phased out. Moria Ross has gone so some things might get better.
'Come On Eileen' was just beyond ridiculous. No wonder Anita was stomping around - that track is about as far away from a samba as you can get.
Well.... the main beat is difficult, yes, but I can just about see how a decent dancer could use some of the other melodies in the track. It'd be a challenge - exarcerbated by the issues with not knowing how the band were going to murder the track - but I think it's just about within the "possible" range.
I noticed on last night's ITT that Craig did not refer to the music when commenting on the lack of hip action in Robbie and Harry's salsas. Clearly it wouldn't be the 'done thing' to criticise the music choices ... :rolleyes:
Well, it's not really in Craig's remit to critique the music.
And trying to do a Salsa to either "Let Me Entertain You" or, even worse, "I'm Still Standing" is just impossible. The basic fundamental rhythm of the dance form does not fit either of those tracks.
I thought the same. And after the great Jill's Jive, using the same song for a salsa was not only a poor choice in itself, it was an outright travesty because of the inevitable comparison (for those of us who saw Jill's). I kept thinking, how can they not bounce to this?! It is no wonder Harry couldn't get into the hip action.
Well.... the main beat is difficult, yes, but I can just about see how a decent dancer could use some of the other melodies in the track. It'd be a challenge - exarcerbated by the issues with not knowing how the band were going to murder the track - but I think it's just about within the "possible" range.
Well, it's not really in Craig's remit to critique the music.
Not thie music itself, but the suitability to the dance perhaps? But given that responsibility for music choice has never, I believe, officially been nailed down (I think last I heard, the pros give a list of songs they want to coose from to the production team, who then tell them which track they can have? Don't know for sure though...) then the judges can't really critique it.
'Come On Eileen' was just beyond ridiculous. No wonder Anita was stomping around - that track is about as far away from a samba as you can get.
I noticed on last night's ITT that Craig did not refer to the music when commenting on the lack of hip action in Robbie and Harry's salsas. Clearly it wouldn't be the 'done thing' to criticise the music choices, even though they must be in part responsible ... :rolleyes:
... and I had to watch Alex's tango twice because the incongruity of someone dancing to 'when you want to suck it to' on a family entertainment show was distracting me from watching the actual dance the first time around...
This made me laugh out loud! I shook my head when I first heard a song banned by the BBC was now okay to dance a Tango to on SCD! I do love the song, but honestly, wonders will never cease! :D
Not thie music itself, but the suitability to the dance perhaps? But given that responsibility for music choice has never, I believe, officially been nailed down (I think last I heard, the pros give a list of songs they want to coose from to the production team, who then tell them which track they can have? Don't know for sure though...) then the judges can't really critique it.
And we mustn't start blaming Dave Arch and his band. They play what they're told to play, at very short notice. There are some pretty good musicians in that band (not so sure about the singers !!!) but this senseless choice of music, for the Latin dances in particular, is what's leading to the dances being poor. Get the right music i.e. traditional stuff, and you'll stand a much better chance of getting the right dance !
Given the terrific viewing figures that both the main show and the results show are getting I think you are in cloud cuckoo land!
I think that the producers will be looking at a big bonus!!!! :cool:
Why does everyone assume that SCD has wonderful viewing figures just because they are beating X-Factor's?
If you compare the number of viewers week-on-week, SCD's figures are actually lower than last year's and only marginally up on previous years. It's more that X-Factor's viewing figures have fallen off a cliff to SCD's level.
I think they (whoever "they" are) made a deliberate decision to "dumb down" the show. Of course "dumb down" would not be in their lexicon, it's just making SCD more attractive to a wider audience.
In some ways, I can see the sense in doing that. If they can attract more viewers without alienating the existing core of fans of the show, they have an even bigger success on their hands.
So now we have the little squabbles between Craig and Len pushed up a notch to rival the X-Factor judges. Bruno, who used to be funny and entertaining, has now gone completely off the richter scale and probably needs a straightjacket..and his remarks are often quite smutty (and believe me. I'm no prude)
The over-marking, again reminiscent of X-Factor, everything has to be "bigged-up", with the marks corresponding to the hyperbole.
Then we have the absurd VT's, they wouldn't be out of place on CBeebies. The props, the music, and the guest singers. The dances, I've lost count of the number of times my wife has asked..what are they supposed to be doing ?..and (unlike me) she does know a thing or two about dancing.
Unlike many others, I don't blame this year's celebrity contestants. They may not be the best we've ever had, but they're certainly not the worst either.
There was potential there from week 1. Jason, Harry and Holly (not so much Chelsee in the beginning) all looked sure to improve, but they haven't..much. Jason and Harry have remained pretty much the same for weeks now. Holly has been hit and miss..mostly miss. Even Chelsee (the biggest success story of the series) seems to have peaked.
Something has changed, the emphasis on showboating over technique ?..could be, but I'll leave that to those with the expertise to comment.
The over-marking, again reminiscent of X-Factor, everything has to be "bigged-up", with the marks corresponding to the hyperbole.
To be fair to Robbie, he seems to be the only one that has twigged that effusive comments and best-ever scores mean nothing at all when they still land you bottom of the leaderboard.
As a musician watching a dance show, wouldn't you prefer to see people dance to the music?
Why not?
We've had very good dancers each year until now. But this year, there's really no-one who's a "star", in either performance or ability.
The thing is, you don't know until they start whether they will be a star or not. On paper anyone young and fit and used to performing has the potential to be excellent. You could audition, I suppose, but then people like to see a 'journey'. Some people like Robbie for that reason (as I refuse to believe they are voting for his 'looks').
Exactly and I know that every time a couple get on that dance floor they might WOW me and that makes it worth watching! I've got 7 years invested in this show!
Well I think that the only way to force changes would be to stop watching or otherwise you accept that it is fine the way it is.
If you record it and watch later does that get included in the viewing figures?
I watch from outside the country so don't know if my watching live makes the viewing figures or not. Anyone know?
I'm still enjoying the show, despite my post (above).
It would have to lose even more integrity, and go still further down the X-Factor/ I'm a celebrity/toe-curling gameshow route before I stopped watching entirely.
They (those mysterious people again) changed Masterchef earlier this year..despite having record viewing figures (not in the same league as SCD obviously) Judging from the forums, most regulars (myself included) disliked those changes. It remains to be seen if the viewing figures will suffer. I've always been a believer in the saying..if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The thing is, you don't know until they start whether they will be a star or not. On paper anyone young and fit and used to performing has the potential to be excellent.
Oh yes - the fact that this crop is underwhelming may be largely bad luck.
That said, I suspect that some of the choices re music and prop-ography have probably hindered creating truly great dances. Let's face it, if you can spend half a routine being fired from a cannon, or getting your legs fondled, you're never going to produce a great dance.
Either way, this year both the dancers and the music have been, by any rational objective measure, less than impressive.
I am actually quite enjoying this series, especially more than the last 2 or 3. I like the fact that the leader board isn't completely predictable and that I look forward to seeing most of the couples dance.
However there are obvious problems which were summed up fantastically:
The result is what you have. Chelsee gets a good mix of steps and entertainment, and her technical issues don't count against her on the leaderboard, as no one else does technically more, or better, Anita and Alex try and be contestants from an earlier series, but don't have to do much thats difficult to score highly. Artem is constructing artistic displays for Holly - regardless of whether its too difficult, fits her character or can compete with the entertainment or simplicity elsewhere. He thinks it worked last year, but hasn't cottoned on that the problem is the producers have changed the game. Jason plods on trying earnestly ,makes errors trying, but still scores highly, Harry takes his shirt off, does a few steps well and then watches Aliona for most of their time and scores higher. Ola wants you to watch her, and Robbie's chest, and wants their twitter following to remember why they follow - and succeeds brilliantly. Alesha marks chests and entertainment, Bruno marks the same, with some deductions for mistakes, Craig marks consistently, but has stopped penalising lack of dancing as he would have, and Len can't decide if he should object to the lack of dancing, or avoid boos by marking up the entertainment. he does both in the end, randomly.
This forum is full of a bunch of moaners:(:(:mad::mad::mad:! If this serie is that dreadful why do you still watch it:mad::mad::mad:?
Ever heard of a little thing called an opinion? And that fact that everyone's entitled to their own? If you don't like people saying they don't like the show, then there are other threads for positive comments!
And actually, I pretty much have stopped watching it. Haven't watched a single show live this year, haven't watched a single show in its absolute entirety without fast-forwarding/putting something on mutedue to it being cringeworthy (VTs especially, whoever thought that making the celebrities and pros act like 5 year olds playing fancy dress was a good idea?). That's the first year I can say that's happened.
Ever heard of a little thing called an opinion? And that fact that everyone's entitled to their own? If you don't like people saying they don't like the show, then there are other threads for positive comments!
And actually, I pretty much have stopped watching it. Haven't watched a single show live this year, haven't watched a single show in its absolute entirety without fast-forwarding/putting something on mutedue to it being cringeworthy (VTs especially, whoever thought that making the celebrities and pros act like 5 year olds playing fancy dress was a good idea?). That's the first year I can say that's happened.
Mystic I'm quite shocked to hear that because I know what a fan you used to be of the show. Are you going to the tour?
Comments
Dance, pretty much by definition, is "moving to the music".
If you change the music, you change the dance.
Whilst of course there is some latitude for experimentation and flexibility, and creativity should always be encouraged in these areas, there are limits.
And trying to do a Salsa to either "Let Me Entertain You" or, even worse, "I'm Still Standing" is just impossible. The basic fundamental rhythm of the dance form does not fit either of those tracks.
The only tracks on Saturday that made any sort of musical sense were "Valerie" (Quickstep), "Spice Up Your Life" (Samba), and "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" (Jive).
So that's 3 out of 8.
Pathetic.
And two of those three have been used previously.
Which isn't just pathetic.
It's downright lazy ...
Yep. There are people on here who keep track of how much time each couple gets on ITT. It happens every year once someone thinks certain couples are getting more air time than others.
Personally I think Come On Eileen was the worst music choice on Saturday and the worst in recent memory for me.
We agree again!
'Come On Eileen' was just beyond ridiculous. No wonder Anita was stomping around - that track is about as far away from a samba as you can get.
I noticed on last night's ITT that Craig did not refer to the music when commenting on the lack of hip action in Robbie and Harry's salsas. Clearly it wouldn't be the 'done thing' to criticise the music choices, even though they must be in part responsible ... :rolleyes:
You say that but Charlie Brooker showed a bunch of Americans EE and they all praised it. Most of US soaps have non-existent acting and plots apparently.
I'm sort of in the middle on this one - I think SCD has lost something I miss the days where everyone started off doing one of two dances until about halfway through the competition and it was obvious what those dances were. I don't mind the props per see but it's the 'faffing 'abart' that gets to me. The contestants this year are not the best bunch we've ever seen (I think that was series five) but they are not the worst (stand up series seven) although I grant you they're not the most charismatic bunch - Russell (no pun intended) and Nancy (who was certainly a unique to SCD) excepted. Alex at the top of the leaderboard has also proved that someone from the middle ranks can rise to the top (even if it is in a week where the dancing on the whole was a bit underwelming).
I agree that the music choices are uninspired (and I'm willing to take the word of the less rhymically challenged than myself that they are just plain wrong in a lot of cases - not that that's new even I could tell that Zoe Lucker was disadvantated by being allocated the Flo and the Machine version of 'You've Got the Love' for her paso) - there have been a lot of tracks we've heard before used (surely there are more British artists worth dancing to than Elt) and I had to watch Alex's tango twice because the incongruity of someone dancing to 'when you want to suck it to' on a family entertainment show was distracting me from watching the actual dance the first time around. I too miss some old pros and think Alesha as a judge is an abomination.
However - my favourite series was five and I remember a lot of grumbling at the time about gimmicks like the Jordan/Logan wife swap, soap opera elements taking over the show, the dance-off, Arlene's foot in mouth comments about to Ola being a pole being used as a pole and other things so complaining that the show has lost its way is nothing new. At least people we now have contestants doing two dances before they're kicked off and no chance for the judges to keep their pets on matter what the majority of the voting public think. Things get better, things get worse and hopefully if we keep hoping then the bad things will be phased out. Moria Ross has gone so some things might get better.
Well, it's not really in Craig's remit to critique the music.
I thought the same. And after the great Jill's Jive, using the same song for a salsa was not only a poor choice in itself, it was an outright travesty because of the inevitable comparison (for those of us who saw Jill's). I kept thinking, how can they not bounce to this?! It is no wonder Harry couldn't get into the hip action.
Not thie music itself, but the suitability to the dance perhaps? But given that responsibility for music choice has never, I believe, officially been nailed down (I think last I heard, the pros give a list of songs they want to coose from to the production team, who then tell them which track they can have? Don't know for sure though...) then the judges can't really critique it.
We are back in the same page then!
This made me laugh out loud!
You've lost me on that one so can't answer I'm afraid
And we mustn't start blaming Dave Arch and his band. They play what they're told to play, at very short notice. There are some pretty good musicians in that band (not so sure about the singers !!!) but this senseless choice of music, for the Latin dances in particular, is what's leading to the dances being poor. Get the right music i.e. traditional stuff, and you'll stand a much better chance of getting the right dance !
Keep hoping it'll get better I suppose !!!
Why does everyone assume that SCD has wonderful viewing figures just because they are beating X-Factor's?
If you compare the number of viewers week-on-week, SCD's figures are actually lower than last year's and only marginally up on previous years. It's more that X-Factor's viewing figures have fallen off a cliff to SCD's level.
In some ways, I can see the sense in doing that. If they can attract more viewers without alienating the existing core of fans of the show, they have an even bigger success on their hands.
So now we have the little squabbles between Craig and Len pushed up a notch to rival the X-Factor judges. Bruno, who used to be funny and entertaining, has now gone completely off the richter scale and probably needs a straightjacket..and his remarks are often quite smutty (and believe me. I'm no prude)
The over-marking, again reminiscent of X-Factor, everything has to be "bigged-up", with the marks corresponding to the hyperbole.
Then we have the absurd VT's, they wouldn't be out of place on CBeebies. The props, the music, and the guest singers. The dances, I've lost count of the number of times my wife has asked..what are they supposed to be doing ?..and (unlike me) she does know a thing or two about dancing.
Unlike many others, I don't blame this year's celebrity contestants. They may not be the best we've ever had, but they're certainly not the worst either.
There was potential there from week 1. Jason, Harry and Holly (not so much Chelsee in the beginning) all looked sure to improve, but they haven't..much. Jason and Harry have remained pretty much the same for weeks now. Holly has been hit and miss..mostly miss. Even Chelsee (the biggest success story of the series) seems to have peaked.
Something has changed, the emphasis on showboating over technique ?..could be, but I'll leave that to those with the expertise to comment.
Did you miss out on understanding what a discussion forum is for?
To be fair to Robbie, he seems to be the only one that has twigged that effusive comments and best-ever scores mean nothing at all when they still land you bottom of the leaderboard.
The thing is, you don't know until they start whether they will be a star or not. On paper anyone young and fit and used to performing has the potential to be excellent. You could audition, I suppose, but then people like to see a 'journey'. Some people like Robbie for that reason (as I refuse to believe they are voting for his 'looks').
Exactly and I know that every time a couple get on that dance floor they might WOW me and that makes it worth watching! I've got 7 years invested in this show!
If you record it and watch later does that get included in the viewing figures?
I watch from outside the country so don't know if my watching live makes the viewing figures or not. Anyone know?
I'm still enjoying the show, despite my post (above).
It would have to lose even more integrity, and go still further down the X-Factor/ I'm a celebrity/toe-curling gameshow route before I stopped watching entirely.
They (those mysterious people again) changed Masterchef earlier this year..despite having record viewing figures (not in the same league as SCD obviously) Judging from the forums, most regulars (myself included) disliked those changes. It remains to be seen if the viewing figures will suffer. I've always been a believer in the saying..if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That said, I suspect that some of the choices re music and prop-ography have probably hindered creating truly great dances. Let's face it, if you can spend half a routine being fired from a cannon, or getting your legs fondled, you're never going to produce a great dance.
Either way, this year both the dancers and the music have been, by any rational objective measure, less than impressive.
However there are obvious problems which were summed up fantastically:
Ever heard of a little thing called an opinion? And that fact that everyone's entitled to their own? If you don't like people saying they don't like the show, then there are other threads for positive comments!
And actually, I pretty much have stopped watching it. Haven't watched a single show live this year, haven't watched a single show in its absolute entirety without fast-forwarding/putting something on mutedue to it being cringeworthy (VTs especially, whoever thought that making the celebrities and pros act like 5 year olds playing fancy dress was a good idea?). That's the first year I can say that's happened.
Mystic I'm quite shocked to hear that because I know what a fan you used to be of the show.