Most teachers are bullies?? That's a gross generalization. I certainly didn't go into the teaching proffession to bully. What a shocking thing to say. I've been teaching for 14 years and find that such an insult. I love my job and have respect for every member of every class I've taught.
Yes, the children call me "miss" but all of them found out my first name at some point and had no problem understanding that they shouldn't use it. That doesn't mean I accord them no respect, or they certainly don't seem to see it that way.
Did I say "most"? No, I said "many", as in many of the teachers I've met HAVE been glorified bullies, either to me but usually to other classmates. Don't twist my words, thank you.
I'm not saying no teachers deserve respect - read my most recent post, teachers like you who do love their job and respect their class when the class respects them, they do deserve respect, it's the majority of the ones I've come across who just see it as a nusiance and take it out on the class but still demand the respect that I dislike.
On the one hand, I believe that children should respect their teachers, but I also think that children should expect that they also should be treated by those same teachers with at least a modicum of respect.
My opinions though have been coloured by the awful teachers that I had to put up with, as simply put, they couldnt care if you lived or died, but woe betide you if you disturbed their break time with a problem.....
Having seen the way the 11 year old boys I teach treat each other on a daily basis without thought, it's clear that THEY don't have the maturity for displaying respect yet.
That's why they're not equal to adults because many don't have the mental and emotional maturity to regulate their own behaviour. They act towards each other in a way I would never consider doing to another adult. That doesn't mean I don't respect them and treat them fairly but someone has to be in charge and part of that is them showing respectful behaviour to me. Part of that is calling me 'miss'.
The older pupils are a different matter. They still show respect and they're supposed to set an example for the younger ones.
Not being allowed to call teachers by their first names is also a way of keeping a distance. Teachers are there to teach not to become friends with their pupils. They can be friendly and chatty but they are not there to be friends. Keeping a distance is important as it helps maintain discipline and order especially in a classroom.
I used to work with young people both in a school situation where they where expected to be formal and outside where they used my first name.
I don't think they had any difficulty in understanding the difference between being friendly and being a friend. I do agree the difference between the two is important though.
The different form of address did not seem to have much impact on 'keeping discipline' although I admit the situations where different because the outside of school stuff was voluntary on their part.
Not being allowed to call teachers by their first names is also a way of keeping a distance. Teachers are there to teach not to become friends with their pupils. They can be friendly and chatty but they are not there to be friends. Keeping a distance is important as it helps maintain discipline and order especially in a classroom.
After 37 years at the chalkface, I believe this is how it should be. Friendly, not friends. Kids, for the most part, know this distinction and will trust a teacher to help with a problem, not as a firend but as a concerned adult.
I now do supply teaching-when there's any about. I have done a number of days in a 6th form college where the students call staff be their first name. I found this really odd at first. However, the students just refered to me as Miss or, when speaking to other staff, 'that new woman'
Nicknames. Guess where my user name came from!! I loved it, particularly when some of the kids told me that they had it on good authority (I had taught many of their parents!) that I could breathe fire!! :D:D
I am 31 and still refer to people a lot senior to me as Mr and Mrs (apart from very close family friends and even then if they are really a lot older I always call them mr or mrs.)
It's because of something that doesn't exist anymore.
RESPECT
It does exist, but it exists in this perverse manner where it must automatically be given to everybody, regardless of whether they have actually earned it through their status as being more qualified, more experienced, more knowledgeable etc. Thus we have a situation where young kids think that they deserve respect by default from their elders, their teachers, the police, their parents as well as their peers. Even this forum demands that respect is given to each other, even though no respect may be due or earned. I think respect has become confused with common courtesy too.
It's because of something that doesn't exist anymore.
RESPECT
The vast majority of kids are respectful for the most part but, as usual, the vocal minority who spoil it for everyone else, get the publicity.
I was talking to an elderly lady recently about a case in our local paper involving some law breaking kids. She said that that she wouldn't have dared breaking the law when she was their age. She took some reassuring when I said the vast majority of kids today wouldn't either.
It does exist, but it exists in this perverse manner where it must automatically be given to everybody, regardless of whether they have actually earned it through their status as being more qualified, more experienced, more knowledgeable etc. Thus we have a situation where young kids think that they deserve respect by default from their elders, their teachers, the police, their parents as well as their peers. Even this forum demands that respect is given to each other, even though no respect may be due or earned. I think respect has become confused with common courtesy too.
I find that idea disgusting. To say that you should only have any respect for people who are either more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable than you?
Of course you should respect any human being. Surely that goes without saying. (unless thay have done terrible things)
So you meet an elderly lady, who has been a housewife all her life. Has no qualifications or education... and (without meaning to sound horrible) is not all that knowledgeble.
But how would you know though because you never called them Mr or Miss, you might have turned out differently
If you'd actually read what I posted, I said that the teachers at one of the primary schools attended by my children were called by their first name, as was the headteacher. So, nothing to do with how I turned out at all.
Did anyone ever called their teacher 'mum' by mistake?
A lad in my class used to call the teacher Mum, when we were about 8.
Mind you, she was his Mum, so it wasn't quite the same thing as if I;d have done it or one of the other kids.
I find that idea disgusting. To say that you should only have any respect for people who are either more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable than you?
Of course you should respect any human being. Surely that goes without saying. (unless thay have done terrible things)
So you meet an elderly lady, who has been a housewife all her life. Has no qualifications or education... and (without meaning to sound horrible) is not all that knowledgeble.
would you have zero respect for her?
I would have respect for her by virtue of her age, and obvious greater life experience. You have missed my point by a light year or more. I'm not saying that ONLY people who are more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable deserve respect. At all. Rather the inverse, in that this culture where EVERYBODY is deemed to deserve "respect" (I prefer "common courtesy") even if they are some snot-nosed little school kid who has done nothing, knows nothing, and has been nothing in comparison, is just ridiculous.
I would have respect for her by virtue of her age, and obvious greater life experience. You have missed my point by a light year or more. I'm not saying that ONLY people who are more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable deserve respect. At all. Rather the inverse, in that this culture where EVERYBODY is deemed to deserve "respect" (I prefer "common courtesy") even if they are some snot-nosed little school kid who has done nothing, knows nothing, and has been nothing in comparison, is just ridiculous.
Has that cleared it up? Great.
No. Not at all.
It's entirely feasible that a 20 year old would have much more life experience than the elderly, say 80 year old lady.
I don't see how you can back this ridiculous notion that age automatically = respect.
For all we know the elderly lady could drown kittens in her spare time.
Would you respect her more than a 9 year old then?
I find that idea disgusting. To say that you should only have any respect for people who are either more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable than you?
It's more about having respect for your elders, rather than the reasons you mention.
I would have respect for her by virtue of her age, and obvious greater life experience. You have missed my point by a light year or more. I'm not saying that ONLY people who are more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable deserve respect. At all. Rather the inverse, in that this culture where EVERYBODY is deemed to deserve "respect" (I prefer "common courtesy") even if they are some snot-nosed little school kid who has done nothing, knows nothing, and has been nothing in comparison, is just ridiculous.
Has that cleared it up? Great.
Telling how you view the young, denying them even common courtesy.
By contrast I subscribe to the old-fashioned belief that common courtesy / "respect" should be the default position shown towards others regardless of their age, until or unless they show themselves undeserving of it.
Comments
Did I say "most"? No, I said "many", as in many of the teachers I've met HAVE been glorified bullies, either to me but usually to other classmates. Don't twist my words, thank you.
I'm not saying no teachers deserve respect - read my most recent post, teachers like you who do love their job and respect their class when the class respects them, they do deserve respect, it's the majority of the ones I've come across who just see it as a nusiance and take it out on the class but still demand the respect that I dislike.
On the one hand, I believe that children should respect their teachers, but I also think that children should expect that they also should be treated by those same teachers with at least a modicum of respect.
My opinions though have been coloured by the awful teachers that I had to put up with, as simply put, they couldnt care if you lived or died, but woe betide you if you disturbed their break time with a problem.....
That's why they're not equal to adults because many don't have the mental and emotional maturity to regulate their own behaviour. They act towards each other in a way I would never consider doing to another adult. That doesn't mean I don't respect them and treat them fairly but someone has to be in charge and part of that is them showing respectful behaviour to me. Part of that is calling me 'miss'.
The older pupils are a different matter. They still show respect and they're supposed to set an example for the younger ones.
Seriously? Why?
Edit: just seen another poster asked you the same question and you answered...I think its a bit strange,slightly victorian attitude though!
I used to work with young people both in a school situation where they where expected to be formal and outside where they used my first name.
I don't think they had any difficulty in understanding the difference between being friendly and being a friend. I do agree the difference between the two is important though.
The different form of address did not seem to have much impact on 'keeping discipline' although I admit the situations where different because the outside of school stuff was voluntary on their part.
After 37 years at the chalkface, I believe this is how it should be. Friendly, not friends. Kids, for the most part, know this distinction and will trust a teacher to help with a problem, not as a firend but as a concerned adult.
I now do supply teaching-when there's any about. I have done a number of days in a 6th form college where the students call staff be their first name. I found this really odd at first. However, the students just refered to me as Miss or, when speaking to other staff, 'that new woman'
Nicknames. Guess where my user name came from!!
RESPECT
Because that's what children in my day were told to do. Whether it's about respect is debatable.
It does exist, but it exists in this perverse manner where it must automatically be given to everybody, regardless of whether they have actually earned it through their status as being more qualified, more experienced, more knowledgeable etc. Thus we have a situation where young kids think that they deserve respect by default from their elders, their teachers, the police, their parents as well as their peers. Even this forum demands that respect is given to each other, even though no respect may be due or earned. I think respect has become confused with common courtesy too.
Sounds a bit weird to our ears at first but you very soon get used to it, and it works very well by combining elements of both intimacy plus respect.
The vast majority of kids are respectful for the most part but, as usual, the vocal minority who spoil it for everyone else, get the publicity.
I was talking to an elderly lady recently about a case in our local paper involving some law breaking kids. She said that that she wouldn't have dared breaking the law when she was their age. She took some reassuring when I said the vast majority of kids today wouldn't either.
I find that idea disgusting. To say that you should only have any respect for people who are either more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable than you?
Of course you should respect any human being. Surely that goes without saying. (unless thay have done terrible things)
So you meet an elderly lady, who has been a housewife all her life. Has no qualifications or education... and (without meaning to sound horrible) is not all that knowledgeble.
would you have zero respect for her?
If you'd actually read what I posted, I said that the teachers at one of the primary schools attended by my children were called by their first name, as was the headteacher. So, nothing to do with how I turned out at all.
Mine too. I think teachers should be called Sir or Mr/Miss/Mrs... It's basic manners and respect.
I agree :-)
A lad in my class used to call the teacher Mum, when we were about 8.
Mind you, she was his Mum, so it wasn't quite the same thing as if I;d have done it or one of the other kids.
I would have respect for her by virtue of her age, and obvious greater life experience. You have missed my point by a light year or more. I'm not saying that ONLY people who are more qualified, experienced or knowledgeable deserve respect. At all. Rather the inverse, in that this culture where EVERYBODY is deemed to deserve "respect" (I prefer "common courtesy") even if they are some snot-nosed little school kid who has done nothing, knows nothing, and has been nothing in comparison, is just ridiculous.
Has that cleared it up? Great.
No. Not at all.
It's entirely feasible that a 20 year old would have much more life experience than the elderly, say 80 year old lady.
I don't see how you can back this ridiculous notion that age automatically = respect.
For all we know the elderly lady could drown kittens in her spare time.
Would you respect her more than a 9 year old then?
It's more about having respect for your elders, rather than the reasons you mention.
I think I called a teacher dad by mistake. Luckily, he was actually my dad. Still a bit
Telling how you view the young, denying them even common courtesy.
By contrast I subscribe to the old-fashioned belief that common courtesy / "respect" should be the default position shown towards others regardless of their age, until or unless they show themselves undeserving of it.