Hmm, beware children, there be trolls on this here forum. I think we are being wound up- not necessarilly by the OP here, but by so many people starting doomngloom naysaying threads!
Have a look at the first page of this forum, I think you'll find there are a grand total of 2 'negative' threads, this one and the losing faith in Moffatt one.
IMO the biggest problem with this forum is the way that certain posters jump on anyone with the slightest bad thing to say about the show, even going as far as calling them trolls just because they dare to criticise.
Why we've even got an "hilarious" spoof thread actively taking the piss out of these so called 'trolls'.
It's no wonder this forum is getting an ever growing reputation of being one big clique......
This is about the 5th thread on the same topic this month...
And it isn't dumbed down. If you want to see dumbed down, go watch The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
This is about the 5th thread on the same topic this month...
And it isn't dumbed down. If you want to see dumbed down, go watch The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
SJA is aimed at a different audience so it would be more simply written for it's target audience, children , I would not say dumbed down though, the last series thrilled me more than anything on DW has in the last year or so.
This is about the 5th thread on the same topic this month...
And it isn't dumbed down. If you want to see dumbed down, go watch The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
well if roaming round a department store with james corden and his baby isn't dumbed down i dont know what is.
The downward spiral was created by RTD, who misunderstood the entire concept as "gothic", then used Who as a plug for political & sexual propaganda .......... the 50 min format doesn;t help either, replacing proper plot development & dialogue with disconnected very quick 1-liners ...........
well if roaming round a department store with james corden and his baby isn't dumbed down i dont know what is.
As a light hearted episode, I thought it worked well; and it had some really nice sequences, e.g. the Doctor interacting with the shop assistants, and his speech about growing up when alone with Stormageddon; and the lead-in to the season finale was, I think, fantastic. I also think the Doctor's chemistry with Corden's character has been very enjoyable.
I think it's a little unfair to suggest a show is dumbing down, and to present a lighter episode as evidence.
Farting Slitheen, little rectangular aliens consisting of human fat, the Tardis towing the Earth across Space, a giant Cyberking trampling over Victorian London ... now that's what I call the dumbing down of Doctor Who!
Farting Slitheen, little rectangular aliens consisting of human fat, the Tardis towing the Earth across Space, a giant Cyberking trampling over Victorian London ... now that's what I call the dumbing down of Doctor Who!
Given that these all happened a few years ago, does this mean Doctor Who is now 'dumbing up'?
I wouldn't say downward spiral but during the middle of tennant years i felt it was slowly being aimed at a younger audience.
Is it budget cuts ?? the writers ?? the fans wanting to much ??
who knows but i love dr who & always will but sometimes the stories just get really really hard to follow,the newest dr is meant to be for the kids i feel,nothing wrong with him but a little darker sometimes would be nice.
The who light is still burning but for how long ??
I'd agree with this : the show seems to have morphed into a fantasy / adventure series aimed at the under 12s, and I'm sure they must have lost quite a few adult viewers along the way.
I like the portrayal of Moriarty but I understand why people have issues with it. I see him as being pretty psychotic and capable of going postal but he also reminds me of Simm's Master, which I found cartoonish and unthreatening.
The Sherlock/Moriarty relationship I understand was a major influence on the Doctor/Master relationship: a super-intelligent protagonist versus an adversary who is in many ways superior.
So when you have the same head writer on both shows and the incumbent protagonist in DW is portrayed as a charismatic mentalist, makes sense why it's now feeding back into the character that originally inspired him. Pretty cool IMHO.
Farting Slitheen, little rectangular aliens consisting of human fat, the Tardis towing the Earth across Space, a giant Cyberking trampling over Victorian London ... now that's what I call the dumbing down of Doctor Who!
People seem to forget this stuff when saying the Moffat era is more childish. They just pick out bits of the last two series and say "there, it's childish," whilst similarly forgetting about things like the Angels snapping people's necks and stripping their brains from their bodies.
Both eras have light-hearted and more serious episodes.
Farting Slitheen, little rectangular aliens consisting of human fat, the Tardis towing the Earth across Space, a giant Cyberking trampling over Victorian London ... now that's what I call the dumbing down of Doctor Who!
To be honest I wouldn't call a Cyberking tramping over Victorian London,destroying building's and possibly squashing scared people dumbing down Doctor Who. Also the Tardis towing the Earth across space showed how powerful the Tardis can be.
Now the Doctor and Craig walking round a shop with a baby,the cbbc scene in Lets kill Hitler,children in ever other episode,the Doctor putting his space suit on back to front,Peg dolls coming to life and a crack in a little girl's bedroom. Now that's dumbing down Doctor Who.
To be honest I wouldn't call a Cyberking tramping over Victorian London,destroying building's and possibly squashing scared people dumbing down Doctor Who. Also the Tardis towing the Earth across space showed how powerful the Tardis can be.
I wouldn't call them dumbing down Doctor Who either, but I would call them crass in the extreme and two very good reasons back then for RTD (to whom we are forever indebted for reviving the show) to be replaced as showrunner sooner rather than later.
I like the portrayal of Moriarty but I understand why people have issues with it. I see him as being pretty psychotic and capable of going postal but he also reminds me of Simm's Master, which I found cartoonish and unthreatening.
I think Moffat does a better job writing Sherlock than Who but the stories have more room to develop due to the episode lengths, he doesn't write as many for us to judge and it's aimed at a different audience.
I find that Moriarty whets my appetite, I want to know more about him and see more of him - just the way Sherlock's visage alters at the mention of his name reminds me of the way the Doctor has reacted to the mention of the Daleks.
I feel elated after watching Sherlock, like I've just witnessed something very special indeed.
I'm waiting for Who to make me feel the same way, it's been a while.
Still love it though, I always will and I would never say that it's on a downward spiral cos the next episode might be the best one I've ever seen.
I don't think it is. It's different to the RTD era, but not nesscarily worse (or better), just a different way of telling it. I'd also argue agasint it being aimed at a younger audience. Yes it has some of those elements and 11 is a lot more "child friendly" (right way of saying it??) then 10, but theres a lot more complexity etc... Often I found RTD silly and crude, with the slitheen, that clom thing etc... and then the adult stuff came in with "i'm in love with x, but they don't leave me and I can't get with y because they've got this whole unrequited tragic story going on with x" Moffat has genuinly scary monsters, that work as they pray on your fears, something which can translate across to adults. I also quite like how the doctor is totally naive (at least on screen most of the time, I know theres River, but at least she has a strong character and isn't the regular you have to put up with for a whole seiries if you don't ship them) Instead you have Amy and Rory, who go past the crush stage, and you get to see them mature and grow independent, which I think would interest adults far more than children.
This is all imo though, and there are still flaws and things I would change, and I wasn't a fan of the christmas ep but I wouldn't say it was going downhill.
Realising I neglected to explain my comment, I'd say that to me he just gives the impression of a two year old throwing a hissy fit. I don't find the character as portrayed either menacing or intelligent and the portrayal significantly detracts from my suspension of disbelief. Given that the original Moriarty was retroactive continuity I also question the motivation in introducing him so early; I'm hoping Reichenbach Falls, which presumably will appear in the third episode this year, goes the same way as in the source fiction.
Anyway, to avoid dwelling on the things that I don't like, I will say this: Cumberbatch and Freeman are brilliant (and Cumberbatch was good in Tinker Tailor, too) and the programme is above average on the whole. I hope I can come around to your view on Moriarty.
My only comparison to go off is the Guy Ritchie film, but I get the same impression. I get he's a psycho, but he doesn't seem stable or sane enough to be able to keep control over a crime empire of the size it seems to be, surely he'll be working with people approaching his power, would they put up with that?. I'm holding hope that he's just acting as a mouthpiece for the real Moriarty, though I doubt that'll happen. Simirlary I'm hoping he tops it at the end.
Aisde from that, and that I'm not too sure on Adler, or her rescue, it is truely brilliant.
SJA is aimed at a different audience so it would be more simply written for it's target audience, children , I would not say dumbed down though, the last series thrilled me more than anything on DW has in the last year or so.
As it is aimed at Children, I would say that it is dumbed down. The last series also bored me intensely.
To be honest I wouldn't call a Cyberking tramping over Victorian London,destroying building's and possibly squashing scared people dumbing down Doctor Who. Also the Tardis towing the Earth across space showed how powerful the Tardis can be.
Now the Doctor and Craig walking round a shop with a baby,the cbbc scene in Lets kill Hitler,children in ever other episode,the Doctor putting his space suit on back to front,Peg dolls coming to life and a crack in a little girl's bedroom. Now that's dumbing down Doctor Who.
How does having children in a few episodes make it dumbed down?
I don't remember a CBBC scene in Let's Kill Hitler.
How is having Peg-dolls come to life dumbed down and childish? Yes, it's a child's toy, but having it come to life doesn't make it childish.
Finally, please enlighten me as to how a crack in the fabric of reality which manifests on a bedroom wall and various other places throughout time and space is dumbed down and childish?
Honestly, defending Doctor Who feels like 24/7 activity on here.
Farting Slitheen, little rectangular aliens consisting of human fat, the Tardis towing the Earth across Space, a giant Cyberking trampling over Victorian London ... now that's what I call the dumbing down of Doctor Who!
Don't forget the Abzorbalof (I hope that's how you spell it) but I would say both eras had aspects of both light-hearted fun and stronger, more serious episodes. It just so happens that the Moff tends to seem to prefer the latter to the former.
well if roaming round a department store with james corden and his baby isn't dumbed down i dont know what is.
One episode does not typify the show! Or make it, or classify it! Or in any way define it!
It's utterly pointless to look at a single episode in a show that is a series and say on that basis that the show is 'dumbed down'. You're not going to get the same style of episode every week, and I would dare to venture as far as to say that if every episode was the same in tone and pitch, there'd be just as many complaints on here that the show is becoming boring/stuck in the mud/out of ideas (delete as appropriate)...
Between 1989 and 2005 we had no (new) Who apart from one movie!
So The Moff writes a few stinkers, I don't think frilly Christmas episodes are his forte, but lets just remember one thing...we have a regular series of DW for the foreseeable!
Surely for that reason alone, who cares if some episodes are crap!
Comments
Have a look at the first page of this forum, I think you'll find there are a grand total of 2 'negative' threads, this one and the losing faith in Moffatt one.
IMO the biggest problem with this forum is the way that certain posters jump on anyone with the slightest bad thing to say about the show, even going as far as calling them trolls just because they dare to criticise.
Why we've even got an "hilarious" spoof thread actively taking the piss out of these so called 'trolls'.
It's no wonder this forum is getting an ever growing reputation of being one big clique......
And it isn't dumbed down. If you want to see dumbed down, go watch The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
SJA is aimed at a different audience so it would be more simply written for it's target audience, children , I would not say dumbed down though, the last series thrilled me more than anything on DW has in the last year or so.
Ugh, please dont remind me of that episode
As a light hearted episode, I thought it worked well; and it had some really nice sequences, e.g. the Doctor interacting with the shop assistants, and his speech about growing up when alone with Stormageddon; and the lead-in to the season finale was, I think, fantastic. I also think the Doctor's chemistry with Corden's character has been very enjoyable.
I think it's a little unfair to suggest a show is dumbing down, and to present a lighter episode as evidence.
nyingy
Given that these all happened a few years ago, does this mean Doctor Who is now 'dumbing up'?
nyingy
I'd agree with this : the show seems to have morphed into a fantasy / adventure series aimed at the under 12s, and I'm sure they must have lost quite a few adult viewers along the way.
The Sherlock/Moriarty relationship I understand was a major influence on the Doctor/Master relationship: a super-intelligent protagonist versus an adversary who is in many ways superior.
So when you have the same head writer on both shows and the incumbent protagonist in DW is portrayed as a charismatic mentalist, makes sense why it's now feeding back into the character that originally inspired him. Pretty cool IMHO.
People seem to forget this stuff when saying the Moffat era is more childish. They just pick out bits of the last two series and say "there, it's childish," whilst similarly forgetting about things like the Angels snapping people's necks and stripping their brains from their bodies.
Both eras have light-hearted and more serious episodes.
To be honest I wouldn't call a Cyberking tramping over Victorian London,destroying building's and possibly squashing scared people dumbing down Doctor Who. Also the Tardis towing the Earth across space showed how powerful the Tardis can be.
Now the Doctor and Craig walking round a shop with a baby,the cbbc scene in Lets kill Hitler,children in ever other episode,the Doctor putting his space suit on back to front,Peg dolls coming to life and a crack in a little girl's bedroom. Now that's dumbing down Doctor Who.
I wouldn't call them dumbing down Doctor Who either, but I would call them crass in the extreme and two very good reasons back then for RTD (to whom we are forever indebted for reviving the show) to be replaced as showrunner sooner rather than later.
After watching Jekyll collapse into mediocrity I've not been surprised at this outcome. However, he's done a great job on Sherlock, so.....go figure??
I can fully understand why you feel this way.
I find it hard to reconcile that the same man writes both shows.
I find that Moriarty whets my appetite, I want to know more about him and see more of him - just the way Sherlock's visage alters at the mention of his name reminds me of the way the Doctor has reacted to the mention of the Daleks.
I feel elated after watching Sherlock, like I've just witnessed something very special indeed.
I'm waiting for Who to make me feel the same way, it's been a while.
Still love it though, I always will and I would never say that it's on a downward spiral cos the next episode might be the best one I've ever seen.
This is all imo though, and there are still flaws and things I would change, and I wasn't a fan of the christmas ep but I wouldn't say it was going downhill.
Thats like ageism. Shocked at DS :eek::p
My only comparison to go off is the Guy Ritchie film, but I get the same impression. I get he's a psycho, but he doesn't seem stable or sane enough to be able to keep control over a crime empire of the size it seems to be, surely he'll be working with people approaching his power, would they put up with that?. I'm holding hope that he's just acting as a mouthpiece for the real Moriarty, though I doubt that'll happen. Simirlary I'm hoping he tops it at the end.
Aisde from that, and that I'm not too sure on Adler, or her rescue, it is truely brilliant.
As it is aimed at Children, I would say that it is dumbed down. The last series also bored me intensely.
Twas a light hearted episode and a bit of fun.
How does having children in a few episodes make it dumbed down?
I don't remember a CBBC scene in Let's Kill Hitler.
How is having Peg-dolls come to life dumbed down and childish? Yes, it's a child's toy, but having it come to life doesn't make it childish.
Finally, please enlighten me as to how a crack in the fabric of reality which manifests on a bedroom wall and various other places throughout time and space is dumbed down and childish?
Honestly, defending Doctor Who feels like 24/7 activity on here.
I didn't like it when they make Doctor Who for shop assistants only, such as in Spearhead from Space.
Don't forget the Abzorbalof (I hope that's how you spell it) but I would say both eras had aspects of both light-hearted fun and stronger, more serious episodes. It just so happens that the Moff tends to seem to prefer the latter to the former.
One episode does not typify the show! Or make it, or classify it! Or in any way define it!
It's utterly pointless to look at a single episode in a show that is a series and say on that basis that the show is 'dumbed down'. You're not going to get the same style of episode every week, and I would dare to venture as far as to say that if every episode was the same in tone and pitch, there'd be just as many complaints on here that the show is becoming boring/stuck in the mud/out of ideas (delete as appropriate)...
So The Moff writes a few stinkers, I don't think frilly Christmas episodes are his forte, but lets just remember one thing...we have a regular series of DW for the foreseeable!
Surely for that reason alone, who cares if some episodes are crap!