I'm reliably informed being a guinea pig in the UK can garner you in excess of £2,000 - dependent on how long the course of 'treatment' takes. A volunteer would probably get more in Germany. I'm with you on this one Lorelei, way to scared ... :eek:
Does anyone know the outcome of the group of five men who suffered terrible consquences after guinea pig treatment at a hospital (best not to name) in North West London about four years ago?
Thanks for this, Ven. I can't believe anyone would mess with their health in this way, for any price.
I remember the story about those guys who suffered horrific side effects in the drug trials. I've seen no follow-up stories on how things panned out for them.
In all seriousness Lorelei you usually like Matt Forde so I kinda thought you'd be in approval mood after listening to the clip of him performing live. What was it in his performance that didn't ring your bells?, it's no use me saying what I didn't like because everyone knows I hate the guy period.
Thanks for this, Ven. I can't believe anyone would mess with their health in this way, for any price.
I remember the story about those guys who suffered horrific side effects in the drug trials. I've seen no follow-up stories on how things panned out for them.
Hell, I'll do it!
I mean: if you can't trust gigantic, faceless, profit-driven multi-national pharmaceutical corporations, who CAN you trust?
I feel like Alan Partridge did after trying to demonstrate his "World Cup Meter" on "The Day Today" where he got progerssively more lost, said, "Ah um," and, "No, that's not right" a lot and hastily concluded with, "and then it's the FINAL!"
I guess maths and statistics ain't my strong point. I'm off to play with my Fisher Price activity centre for the under twos.
You also expressed shock at my enjoyment of Ian Wright as a presenter. In my opinion, both Ian Wright and Jason Cundy have excellent comic timing, regardless of how moronic some of their comments maybe. My politics are similar to yours so naturally I loathe someone like Jim Davidson, but I'd be lying if I said he didn't have impeccable comedy timing.
I've never noticed Ian Wright's comic timing, but then I don't claim to be particularly knowledgeable about comedy. However you've shocked me too.
As with the painfully unfunny Goldstein, I'm genuinely surprised that a clearly intelligent person can enjoy Wright's moronic schoolboy schtick - let alone be left-of-centre and not loathe him for his arch-Thatcherite views. One that made me want to kick my radio (not being able to get at the culprit himself) was a furious rant against homeless individuals begging in the street. "Why don't they get a job?" was the bitter complaint of this privileged millionaire ex-footballer.
I'm afraid that for me, Wright ranks alongside the likes of Irani, Gough and Mickey Quinn for sheer pointlessness on the radio.
That's exactly the same view as the one I have of Adrian Durham's work on talkSPORT. He's great on Saturday afternoons and was in the earlier days of his weeknight evening shift, in these roles he consistently demonstrates that he can be one of the best football presenters on British radio by a long way. But his controversial for controversy's sake style back-and-forth arguments on Drive Time leave me cold.
I dare say this is quite a common viewpoint among talkSPORT listeners.
...
Totally agree. Sometimes he lets slip that he's quite well informed about a range of topics and even given the one-dimensional sensationalism of Drive, you can hear that he has a deep knowledge of football.
While the WUM arguments are tediously transparent, I do wonder if they might not be better if he had a more suitable adversary than the amiable but bumbling and buffoonish Gough. I remember when Durham used to get into real tear-ups with Marchotti, who often seemed to be on the verge of genuinely losing it. That was far more entertaining radio.
I've never noticed Ian Wright's comic timing, but then I don't claim to be particularly knowledgeable about comedy. However you've shocked me too.
As with the painfully unfunny Goldstein.....
I'm afraid that for me, Wright ranks alongside the likes of Irani, Gough and Mickey Quinn for sheer pointlessness on the radio.
Every show Ian Wright has ever appeared on eventually bombed. They start off well, but he hasn't got the depth of character to keep an audience and it's just the same old stuff after a short while.
As for Goldstein, his style of humour is to put someone on the spot and embarrass them with a flurry of sexual innuendo's.
This comment is particularly egregious when even the biggest supporters of the current affairs output have callers that they consider 'dumb' and whose contribution they would much prefer to be eliminated. Nigel from Maidstone, anyone?
I would be quite happy for the vile, slimy, creepy, perverted Nigel to be eliminated once and for all.
1. 9/11 truthers (unless there is an expert on structural mechanics to provide an opposing point of view)
2. Holocaust deniers (unless there is an expert on German history to correct factual errors)
3. Global warming deniers (unless there is a climate scientist on to verify the accuracy of their facts)
4. Creationists (unless there is an expert on evolutionary biology to make sure their facts about evolution are correct.)
5. Religious nuts who allude to scripture but don't quote it (an expert in the Bible should be there to provide correct facts.)
6. People who insist the BNP is not racist.
Then and only then will there be a true honest debate.
You get the same canards on the TS football phone-ins, although admittedly they can change from time-to time.
A collection of some of the bone-headed pearlers past and present - usually topics in which there was a prevailing herd mentality with the great majority of calls saying the same thing as the presenter.
- Didier Drogba will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season)
- Per Mertesacker will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season).
Mertesacker has won titles, played in a World Cup semi-final and Euro final and has 78 caps for one of the best sides in the world at the age of only 27.
- Everyone but Wenger can see that Arsenal need to sign a goalkeeper (despite Wenger's protests that he had a class young player who would be ready the following season and that it would be reckless to spend large sums on a goalkeeper for a season. Sczecelny anyone?)
- Wenger is a useless foreign tw*t who's past his sell by date. See the failure to sign Gary Cahill for proof.
By contrast with Mertesacker, Cahill has a handful of caps for an inferior international side at a similar age and has never even played in a major semi-final or won a title. Bolton were reportedly desperate to get him off the wage bill, but no-one else wanted to sign him either - until Chelsea (or that renkowned football sage, Roman Abramovich) came in for him. He now can't even get into Chelsea's first team.
- Fabio Capello is a useless foreign tw*t.
Seven Serie A titles with three different clubs (missed out on an eighth by a single point). Two La Liga titles, one Champions League title, one UEFA cup title, one Supercup title.
- Sven Goran Erikkson is a useless foreign tw*t.
Best record of any England manager in foreign tournaments - 3rd highest win percentage. Took over in the middle of disastrous campaign and qualified us for Japan/Korea 2002 when we looked dead and buried, starting with a 5-1 away victory against subsequent finalists Germany, who had previously dominated against us at Wembley under Keegan.
5 league titles with Benfica, Gothenburg and Lazio. Two UEFA cup titles (one with rank outsiders Gothenburg) One Cup-Winners cup title. Three or four domestic cup wins. I'm sure I've missed a few out too. Two Champons League finals.
- Terry Venables is God who if he hadn't been stabbed in the back by the FA suits would've led England to unprecedented success.
"Stabbed in the back" as in facing a serious charge in court, after which he was banned from being a company director and described as "fundamentally dishonest" by a HIgh Court Judge. Two trophies in 25 years as a manager. One of those taking over a Barcelona side built by Menotti which lost the title by a point the year before he took over. Scraped his way to the European Cup final, losing to the longest-odds outsider in history in the final, his side missing EVERY penalty in the shoot-out. Sacked after a campaign in which he nearly lost to a side from Albania and lost home and away to Dundee United.
Third lowest win percentage of any England manager (tenths of a percent greater than the derided Graham Taylor, despite playing the lowest proportion of competitive matches.) Only reached the semi-final of a home tournament - a record matched by 100% of European Championship, World Cup and Copa America hosts at that time. Failed to beat a Germany missing five first choice players, including the World Class Klinsmann, Kohler and Hassler - the spine of the team. Nearly lost to Switzerland and Scotland and would have lost to Spain were it not for a scandalous performance by the referee, bitterly complained about by now Sorting Gijon manager and then Spain manager Clemente to this day.
- England 4- Holland 1 is the Best Performance By An England Team Bar the 1966 World Cup (see-above)
The Holland side beaten by England were given a hugely over-inflated reputation, largely based on a play-off victory against an ancient Republic of Ireland side which was televised in the UK, as it was played at Anfield and involved a number of British based players. None of the "knowledgeable" callers ever ask the obvious question as to how come Holland only managed to qualify via a playoff - let alone noticing the fact that Holland nearly missed out on even that route, pipping Rumania on goal-difference by a solitary goal to second place in their qualifying group.
Moreover the side was riven by an Ajax based race war, culminating in the black midfielder Edgar Davids being sent home after he furiously attacked Hiddink for allegedly taking the white players views into account and ignoring those of the black players. The Holland side that we orgasmically judge ourselves against for evermore, scored TWO goals in the entire tournament and crashed out at the group stage.
- Harry Redknapp is Jesus. (One trophy in 20-odd years of management).
- England have a Golden generation equal to the best in the world.
- FIFA are useless foreign tw*ts who denied us the World Cup out of spite, just because they hate us.
Despite the fact that FIFA had stated long before that they were giving priority to developing football nations and that on that basis, pundits with half a brain like Tim Vickery, were warning long before that it was a futile bid.
- FIFA are useless foreign ***** who are too out of touch to realise that Video Technology is a no-brainer that works perfectly in other sports.
Despite the fact that video evidence is still controversial in cricket where it has encroached from line decisions into LBW and slowed the game down - just as FIFA state they are wary of.
- Barcelona wouldn't last five minutes in the Premier League with that tippy-tappy Bullsh*t they play in the uncompetitive La Liga, where they play cannon fodder most weeks (like Athletic Bilbao, five places and 22 points behind Barca, who just handed the best team in England their ars*s on a plate).
- X, Y, Z manager (usually Wenger) is a useless tw*t for being careful with money and not spending big in the transfer market.
- Overspending and debt by English clubs is an unsustainable scandal.
- Fans being priced out of the game is an unsustainable scandal.
- Isn't it wonderful that the Premier League is the richest Leaue in the World?
I could go on.
I say again, I don't buy this "football phone-in callers are more well-informed" argument.
You get the same canards on the TS football phone-ins, although admittedly they can change from time-to time.
A collection of some of the bone-headed pearlers past and present - usually topics in which there was a prevailing herd mentality with the great majority of calls saying the same thing as the presenter.
- Didier Drogba will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season)
- Per Mertesacker will never make it in the Premier League
(during his FIRST season).
Mertesacker has won titles, played in a World Cup semi-final and Euro final and has 78 caps for one of the best sides in the world at the age of only 27.
- Everyone but Wenger can see that Arsenal need to sign a goalkeeper (despite Wenger's protests that he had a class young player who would be ready the following season and that it would be reckless to spend large sums on a goalkeeper for a season. Sczecelny anyone?)
- Wenger is a useless foreign tw*t who's past his sell by date. See the failure to sign Gary Cahill for proof.
By contrast with Mertesacker, Cahill has a handful of caps for an inferior international side at a similar age and has never even played in a major semi-final or won a title. Bolton were reportedly desperate to get him off the wage bill, but no-one else wanted to sign him either - until Chelsea (or that renkowned football sage, Roman Abramovich) came in for him. He now can't even get into Chelsea's first team
- Fabio Capello is a useless foreign tw*t.
- Sven Goran Erikkson is a useless foreign tw*t. (Best record of any England manager in foreign tournaments - 3rd highest win percentage. Took over in the middle of disastrous campaign and qualified us for Japan/Korea 2002 when we looked dead and buried, starting with a 5-1 away victory against subsequent finalists Germany, who had previously dominated against us at Wembley under Keegan)
- Terry Venables is God who if he hadn't been stabbed in the back by the FA suits would've led England to unprecedented success.
"Stabbed in the back" as in facing a serious charge in court, after which he was banned from being a company director and described as "fundamentally dishonest" by a HIgh Court Judge. Two trophies in 25 years as a manager. One of those taking over a Barcelona side built by Menotti which lost the title by a point the year before he took over. Scraped his way to the European Cup final, losing to the longest-odds outsider in history in the final, his side missing EVERY penalty in the shoot-out. Sacked after a campaign in which he nearly lost to a side from Albania and lost home and away to Dundee United.
Third lowest win percentage of any England manager (tenths of a percent greater than the derided Graham Taylor, despite playing the lowest proportion of competitive matches.) Only reached the semi-final of a home tournament - a record matched by 100% of European Championship, World Cup and Copa America hosts at that time. Failed to beat a Germany missing five first choice players, including the World Class Klinsmann, Kohler and Hassler - the spine of the team. Nearly lost to Switzerland and Scotland and would have lost to Spain were it not for a scandalous performance by the referee, bitterly complained about by now Sorting Gijon manager and then Spain manager Clemente to this day.
- England 4- Holland 1 is the Best Performance By An England Team Bar the 1966 World Cup (see-above)
The Holland side beaten by England were given a hugely over-inflated reputation, largely based on a play-off victory against an ancient Republic of Ireland side which was televised in the UK, as it was played at Anfield and involved a number of British based players. None of the "knowledgeable" callers ever ask the obvious question as to how come Holland only managed to qualify via a playoff - let alone noticing the fact that Holland nearly missed out on even that route, pipping Rumania on goal-difference by a solitary goal to second place in their qualifying group.
Moreover the side was riven by an Ajax based race war, culminating in the black midfielder Edgar Davids being sent home after he furiously attacked Hiddink for allegedly taking the white players views into account and ignoring those of the black players. The Holland side that we orgasmically judge ourselves against for evermore, scored TWO goals in the entire tournament and crashed out at the group stage.
- England have a Golden generation equal to the best in the world.
- FIFA are useless foreign tw*ts who denied us the World Cup out of spiten just because they hate us.
Despite the fact that FIFA had stated long before that they were giving priority to developing football nations and that on that basis, pundits with half a brain like Tim Vickery, were warning long before that it was a futile bid.
- FIFA are useless foreign ***** who are too out of touch to realise that Video Technology is a no-brainer that works perfectly in other sports.
Despite the fact that video evidence is still controversial in cricket where it has encroached from line decisions into LBW and slowed the game down - just as FIFA state they are wary of.
- Barcelona wouldn't last five minutes in the Premier League with that tippy-tappy Bullsh*t they play in the uncompetitive La Liga, where they play cannon fodder most weeks (like Athletic Bilbao, five places and 22 points behind Barca, who just handed the best team in England their ars*s on a plate).
I could go on.
I say again, I don't buy this "football phone-in callers are more well-informed" argument.
That has to be one of the best posts ever. Brilliant analysis.
That has to be one of the best posts ever. Brilliant analysis.
Thanks.
Take another look. I thought I'd edit it to add Capello's and Erikkson's career achievements to compare and contrast with the cockney geniuses Venables and Redknapp.
Diff, was Tim Vickery's visit to Talksport unscheduled ? I got the impression Mike rushed him off a bit quick. I was hoping he would be in the studio for an hour or two.
I got that impression too. He has come over here primarily to see his mother for her 75th birthday, so I'm not sure how much notice he will have given the staff at talkSPORT of his intention to drop in but I'm sure they were more than happy to have him join them in the studio given the cult following he has and all the good work he's done for them over a great many years. During his past jaunts to the UK he has joined Hawksbee & Jacobs and Danny Kelly on a Thursday night Kick-Off show in the studio; on the first occasion he was the featured guest and was the subject of H&J's usual 1.30pm-2.15pm interview that day, on the second he was Danny's co-host for one or two hours of that night's three hour show. I think he got around 20 minutes from 1.30am this morning if anyone wants to listen back, which was brilliant for what it was but like you I had hoped he'd be on for longer.
Got to say I found Tim's guest slot to be really inspiring radio. He didn't really touch upon football at all - instead he chose to give us an insight into how and why he first ventured over to Brazil and how he lived hand to mouth in his first few months in Rio. He also told us about how his brother's work took him to live in Cambodia, gave his thoughts about how student life can widen a person's horizons and his worries about how this seems to be lost on today's generation of students, gave a firm and intelligent defence of immigration and the character this has given to his childhood home town of Hemel Hempstead and he even empathised with callers who were upset about the end of current affairs programming on talkSPORT, but at the same time expressed how sport can so often reflect wider culture and bring a lot of joy to people's lives. It was really fascinating stuff from my favourite journalist, I now have even more respect for Tim than I had before listening last night.
For those doubtful about sport content taking over the overnight slot, see if you can dig out Tim's section on Listen Again and see what you think. If we're going to get content a fraction as intelligent and thought-provoking as that on a nightly basis I won't have any complaints. Compare that to the call that Mike said an early goodbye to Tim in order to squeeze in before the news - from regular Christine - who phoned up to tell us that football is not worth bothering with and that looking up to the stars was much more interesting. With apologies to genuine stargazers out there, I know who I found much the more interesting.
I...20 minutes from 1.30am this morning if anyone wants to listen back, which was brilliant for what it was but like you I had hoped he'd be on for longer...
...(he) expressed how sport can so often reflect wider culture...
For those doubtful about sport content taking over the overnight slot, see if you can dig out Tim's section on Listen Again and see what you think. If we're going to get content a fraction as intelligent and thought-provoking as that on a nightly basis I won't have any complaints...
Fine, but as you say, it was only twenty minutes, like the vast majority of his TS appearances, compared with the two hours he gets on FiveLive. I agree with the comment about sport reflecting wider culture, but seriously, is this the angle you find prevalent on TS, beyond the odd atypical show or feature? IF we get thought provoking content like Tim Vickery's contributions, then I won't have any complaints either - but its a big "if".
The problem is, that the more corporatist commercial radio has become, the more it has (understandably) engaged in a race to simplicity and homegeneity.
It's possible that TS will start out with good intentions, but if profit is God to the extent that they have followed the lead of most of the major groups and driven a coach and horses through the spirit, if not the letter, of their original licence, how long will it be before the content is relentlessly dumbed down to endless phone-ins on identical topics covered in the day, for those night lorry-drivers who weren't awake to listen to them the first time?
I won't lay a bet on when, but I'm fairly confident that will be the eventual direction of overnights.
Fine, but as you say, it was only twenty minutes, like the vast majority of his TS appearances, compared with the two hours he gets on FiveLive. I agree with the comment about sport reflecting wider culture, but seriously, is this the angle you find prevalent on TS, beyond the odd atypical show or feature?
Maybe not, but at the same time I don't consider talkSPORT to be completely dominated by Drive Time or Weekend Sports Breakfast esque shows either. Although perhaps not to Vickery's immensely high standards, take a look at the thoughtful and intelligent content that is broadcast on programmes like Full Contact, Football First with Ian Danter and My Sporting Life.
Like the new overnight show, as weekend evening output all of these programmes are broadcast in non-peak timeslots in terms of chasing ratings and advertisers. I have read a post in another thread from a poster who appears to have a good knowledge of the radio industry, which says that talkSPORT's overnight listenership represents a mere 3 per cent of the station's total audience. If this is even close to the truth I would consider it very unlikely that talkSPORT management see it being imperative that the new overnight show becomes a ratings winner in the short to medium term.
If the three programmes I mention can be given the time to try to do something more intelligent than the norms of much of sports radio and build an audience to go with this, then I don't see why the new overnight programme (sitting in arguably an even less important slot from the view of talkSPORT management) won't be given a reasonable amount of time to produce items of the kind we heard from Tim last night that eventually taps into a niche audience slightly larger than the one this slot is getting in its present form. And that's why I am cautiously optimistic about the new direction the overnight show will be going in.
I got that impression too. He has come over here primarily to see his mother for her 75th birthday, so I'm not sure how much notice he will have given the staff at talkSPORT of his intention to drop in but I'm sure they were more than happy to have him join them in the studio given the cult following he has and all the good work he's done for them over a great many years. During his past jaunts to the UK he has joined Hawksbee & Jacobs and Danny Kelly on a Thursday night Kick-Off show in the studio; on the first occasion he was the featured guest and was the subject of H&J's usual 1.30pm-2.15pm interview that day, on the second he was Danny's co-host for one or two hours of that night's three hour show. I think he got around 20 minutes from 1.30am this morning if anyone wants to listen back, which was brilliant for what it was but like you I had hoped he'd be on for longer.
Got to say I found Tim's guest slot to be really inspiring radio. He didn't really touch upon football at all - instead he chose to give us an insight into how and why he first ventured over to Brazil and how he lived hand to mouth in his first few months in Rio. He also told us about how his brother's work took him to live in Cambodia, gave his thoughts about how student life can widen a person's horizons and his worries about how this seems to be lost on today's generation of students, gave a firm and intelligent defence of immigration and the character this has given to his childhood home town of Hemel Hempstead and he even empathised with callers who were upset about the end of current affairs programming on talkSPORT, but at the same time expressed how sport can so often reflect wider culture and bring a lot of joy to people's lives. It was really fascinating stuff from my favourite journalist, I now have even more respect for Tim than I had before listening last night.
For those doubtful about sport content taking over the overnight slot, see if you can dig out Tim's section on Listen Again and see what you think. If we're going to get content a fraction as intelligent and thought-provoking as that on a nightly basis I won't have any complaints. Compare that to the call that Mike said an early goodbye to Tim in order to squeeze in before the news - from regular Christine - who phoned up to tell us that football is not worth bothering with and that looking up to the stars was much more interesting. With apologies to genuine stargazers out there, I know who I found much the more interesting.
I agree Tim Vickery is interesting and respected journalist whether he is discussing football, Brazilian Culture or life in general.. What puzzled me most regarding his short visit is that he mentioned he had walked too the Talksport studios via the South Embankment at that time of night. Mike could have at the very least kept him there until the news, I thought Mike ended Tim's visit a little abruptly considering the effort he had made to get there.
I don't accept NoRules argument that callers to sports programmes are somehow more knowledgeable than those to current affairs shows, simply because they watch the games they are commenting on. Leaving aside the fact that I sometimes wonder if they actually DO watch the games, watching a football match is no guarantee that someone will have an intelligent or insightful outlook on the game they've just watched.
I totally agree with you about the stupidity of the sports callers, and the fact that I say they are slightly more informed than the overnight current affairs callers (i have said that shows like they have on LBC during the day get a much higher calibre of callers,) doesn't mean I find them well informed in any way.
It's like saying Warwick Davis is taller than Verne Troyer.
- Per Mertesacker will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season).
Mertesacker has won titles, played in a World Cup semi-final and Euro final and has 78 caps for one of the best sides in the world at the age of only 27.
- Everyone but Wenger can see that Arsenal need to sign a goalkeeper (despite Wenger's protests that he had a class young player who would be ready the following season and that it would be reckless to spend large sums on a goalkeeper for a season. Sczecelny anyone?)
- Wenger is a useless foreign tw*t who's past his sell by date. See the failure to sign Gary Cahill for proof.
By contrast with Mertesacker, Cahill has a handful of caps for an inferior international side at a similar age and has never even played in a major semi-final or won a title. Bolton were reportedly desperate to get him off the wage bill, but no-one else wanted to sign him either - until Chelsea (or that renkowned football sage, Roman Abramovich) came in for him. He now can't even get into Chelsea's first team.
- Fabio Capello is a useless foreign tw*t.
Seven Serie A titles with three different clubs (missed out on an eighth by a single point). Two La Liga titles, one Champions League title, one UEFA cup title, one Supercup title.
- Sven Goran Erikkson is a useless foreign tw*t.
Best record of any England manager in foreign tournaments - 3rd highest win percentage. Took over in the middle of disastrous campaign and qualified us for Japan/Korea 2002 when we looked dead and buried, starting with a 5-1 away victory against subsequent finalists Germany, who had previously dominated against us at Wembley under Keegan.
5 league titles with Benfica, Gothenburg and Lazio. Two UEFA cup titles (one with rank outsiders Gothenburg) One Cup-Winners cup title. Three or four domestic cup wins. I'm sure I've missed a few out too. Two Champons League finals.
- Terry Venables is God who if he hadn't been stabbed in the back by the FA suits would've led England to unprecedented success.
"Stabbed in the back" as in facing a serious charge in court, after which he was banned from being a company director and described as "fundamentally dishonest" by a HIgh Court Judge. Two trophies in 25 years as a manager. One of those taking over a Barcelona side built by Menotti which lost the title by a point the year before he took over. Scraped his way to the European Cup final, losing to the longest-odds outsider in history in the final, his side missing EVERY penalty in the shoot-out. Sacked after a campaign in which he nearly lost to a side from Albania and lost home and away to Dundee United.
Third lowest win percentage of any England manager (tenths of a percent greater than the derided Graham Taylor, despite playing the lowest proportion of competitive matches.) Only reached the semi-final of a home tournament - a record matched by 100% of European Championship, World Cup and Copa America hosts at that time. Failed to beat a Germany missing five first choice players, including the World Class Klinsmann, Kohler and Hassler - the spine of the team. Nearly lost to Switzerland and Scotland and would have lost to Spain were it not for a scandalous performance by the referee, bitterly complained about by now Sorting Gijon manager and then Spain manager Clemente to this day.
- England 4- Holland 1 is the Best Performance By An England Team Bar the 1966 World Cup (see-above)
The Holland side beaten by England were given a hugely over-inflated reputation, largely based on a play-off victory against an ancient Republic of Ireland side which was televised in the UK, as it was played at Anfield and involved a number of British based players. None of the "knowledgeable" callers ever ask the obvious question as to how come Holland only managed to qualify via a playoff - let alone noticing the fact that Holland nearly missed out on even that route, pipping Rumania on goal-difference by a solitary goal to second place in their qualifying group.
Moreover the side was riven by an Ajax based race war, culminating in the black midfielder Edgar Davids being sent home after he furiously attacked Hiddink for allegedly taking the white players views into account and ignoring those of the black players. The Holland side that we orgasmically judge ourselves against for evermore, scored TWO goals in the entire tournament and crashed out at the group stage.
- Harry Redknapp is Jesus. (One trophy in 20-odd years of management).
- England have a Golden generation equal to the best in the world.
- FIFA are useless foreign tw*ts who denied us the World Cup out of spite, just because they hate us.
Despite the fact that FIFA had stated long before that they were giving priority to developing football nations and that on that basis, pundits with half a brain like Tim Vickery, were warning long before that it was a futile bid.
- FIFA are useless foreign ***** who are too out of touch to realise that Video Technology is a no-brainer that works perfectly in other sports.
Despite the fact that video evidence is still controversial in cricket where it has encroached from line decisions into LBW and slowed the game down - just as FIFA state they are wary of.
- Barcelona wouldn't last five minutes in the Premier League with that tippy-tappy Bullsh*t they play in the uncompetitive La Liga, where they play cannon fodder most weeks (like Athletic Bilbao, five places and 22 points behind Barca, who just handed the best team in England their ars*s on a plate).
- X, Y, Z manager (usually Wenger) is a useless tw*t for being careful with money and not spending big in the transfer market.
- Overspending and debt by English clubs is an unsustainable scandal.
- Fans being priced out of the game is an unsustainable scandal.
- Isn't it wonderful that the Premier League is the richest Leaue in the World?
I could go on.
I say again, I don't buy this "football phone-in callers are more well-informed" argument.
As I said, it's a matter of degrees. Though I agree that the callers who regurgitate that sort of rubbish do bore me, if the sort of callers who call late night shows called in about sport their arguments would be more like 'You can't trust Arsene Wenger because he's a lizard from Mars.', 'Roman Abromovich is a member of the Illuminati,' and' Per Mertesacker is a Naxi.'
"Matt Forde - Stand Up Comedian. Died during a short appearance."
As the late Bob Monkhouse once said, "My family laughed when I told them I was going to be a comedian. WELL THEY'RE NOT LAUGHING NOW!"
And what have you done with your life that's so impressive? Why is Matt Forde fair game for the nastiest sort of personal abuse, yet and questioning Mike Graham's intelligence makes you the subject of a bullying hate campaign.
I've never noticed Ian Wright's comic timing, but then I don't claim to be particularly knowledgeable about comedy. However you've shocked me too.
As with the painfully unfunny Goldstein, I'm genuinely surprised that a clearly intelligent person can enjoy Wright's moronic schoolboy schtick - let alone be left-of-centre and not loathe him for his arch-Thatcherite views. One that made me want to kick my radio (not being able to get at the culprit himself) was a furious rant against homeless individuals begging in the street. "Why don't they get a job?" was the bitter complaint of this privileged millionaire ex-footballer.
Obviously I don't agree with that point of view, but since the thing I find endearing about Wright's comedy person is that he comes off as the 'amiable idiot,' so I suppose I can laugh at his moronic comments.
Comments
Thanks for this, Ven. I can't believe anyone would mess with their health in this way, for any price.
I remember the story about those guys who suffered horrific side effects in the drug trials. I've seen no follow-up stories on how things panned out for them.
He wasn't funny, period.
Late congratulations on the wedding by the way Billy and commiserations too for having to sit through this pile of sh1te just to put it up on youtube.
Hell, I'll do it!
I mean: if you can't trust gigantic, faceless, profit-driven multi-national pharmaceutical corporations, who CAN you trust?
I've never noticed Ian Wright's comic timing, but then I don't claim to be particularly knowledgeable about comedy. However you've shocked me too.
As with the painfully unfunny Goldstein, I'm genuinely surprised that a clearly intelligent person can enjoy Wright's moronic schoolboy schtick - let alone be left-of-centre and not loathe him for his arch-Thatcherite views. One that made me want to kick my radio (not being able to get at the culprit himself) was a furious rant against homeless individuals begging in the street. "Why don't they get a job?" was the bitter complaint of this privileged millionaire ex-footballer.
I'm afraid that for me, Wright ranks alongside the likes of Irani, Gough and Mickey Quinn for sheer pointlessness on the radio.
The obituary will read:
"Matt Forde - Stand Up Comedian. Died during a short appearance."
As the late Bob Monkhouse once said, "My family laughed when I told them I was going to be a comedian. WELL THEY'RE NOT LAUGHING NOW!"
Totally agree. Sometimes he lets slip that he's quite well informed about a range of topics and even given the one-dimensional sensationalism of Drive, you can hear that he has a deep knowledge of football.
While the WUM arguments are tediously transparent, I do wonder if they might not be better if he had a more suitable adversary than the amiable but bumbling and buffoonish Gough. I remember when Durham used to get into real tear-ups with Marchotti, who often seemed to be on the verge of genuinely losing it. That was far more entertaining radio.
Every show Ian Wright has ever appeared on eventually bombed. They start off well, but he hasn't got the depth of character to keep an audience and it's just the same old stuff after a short while.
As for Goldstein, his style of humour is to put someone on the spot and embarrass them with a flurry of sexual innuendo's.
I would be quite happy for the vile, slimy, creepy, perverted Nigel to be eliminated once and for all.
You get the same canards on the TS football phone-ins, although admittedly they can change from time-to time.
A collection of some of the bone-headed pearlers past and present - usually topics in which there was a prevailing herd mentality with the great majority of calls saying the same thing as the presenter.
- Didier Drogba will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season)
- Per Mertesacker will never make it in the Premier League (during his FIRST season).
Mertesacker has won titles, played in a World Cup semi-final and Euro final and has 78 caps for one of the best sides in the world at the age of only 27.
- Everyone but Wenger can see that Arsenal need to sign a goalkeeper (despite Wenger's protests that he had a class young player who would be ready the following season and that it would be reckless to spend large sums on a goalkeeper for a season. Sczecelny anyone?)
- Wenger is a useless foreign tw*t who's past his sell by date. See the failure to sign Gary Cahill for proof.
By contrast with Mertesacker, Cahill has a handful of caps for an inferior international side at a similar age and has never even played in a major semi-final or won a title. Bolton were reportedly desperate to get him off the wage bill, but no-one else wanted to sign him either - until Chelsea (or that renkowned football sage, Roman Abramovich) came in for him. He now can't even get into Chelsea's first team.
- Fabio Capello is a useless foreign tw*t.
Seven Serie A titles with three different clubs (missed out on an eighth by a single point). Two La Liga titles, one Champions League title, one UEFA cup title, one Supercup title.
- Sven Goran Erikkson is a useless foreign tw*t.
Best record of any England manager in foreign tournaments - 3rd highest win percentage. Took over in the middle of disastrous campaign and qualified us for Japan/Korea 2002 when we looked dead and buried, starting with a 5-1 away victory against subsequent finalists Germany, who had previously dominated against us at Wembley under Keegan.
5 league titles with Benfica, Gothenburg and Lazio. Two UEFA cup titles (one with rank outsiders Gothenburg) One Cup-Winners cup title. Three or four domestic cup wins. I'm sure I've missed a few out too. Two Champons League finals.
- Terry Venables is God who if he hadn't been stabbed in the back by the FA suits would've led England to unprecedented success.
"Stabbed in the back" as in facing a serious charge in court, after which he was banned from being a company director and described as "fundamentally dishonest" by a HIgh Court Judge. Two trophies in 25 years as a manager. One of those taking over a Barcelona side built by Menotti which lost the title by a point the year before he took over. Scraped his way to the European Cup final, losing to the longest-odds outsider in history in the final, his side missing EVERY penalty in the shoot-out. Sacked after a campaign in which he nearly lost to a side from Albania and lost home and away to Dundee United.
Third lowest win percentage of any England manager (tenths of a percent greater than the derided Graham Taylor, despite playing the lowest proportion of competitive matches.) Only reached the semi-final of a home tournament - a record matched by 100% of European Championship, World Cup and Copa America hosts at that time. Failed to beat a Germany missing five first choice players, including the World Class Klinsmann, Kohler and Hassler - the spine of the team. Nearly lost to Switzerland and Scotland and would have lost to Spain were it not for a scandalous performance by the referee, bitterly complained about by now Sorting Gijon manager and then Spain manager Clemente to this day.
- England 4- Holland 1 is the Best Performance By An England Team Bar the 1966 World Cup (see-above)
The Holland side beaten by England were given a hugely over-inflated reputation, largely based on a play-off victory against an ancient Republic of Ireland side which was televised in the UK, as it was played at Anfield and involved a number of British based players. None of the "knowledgeable" callers ever ask the obvious question as to how come Holland only managed to qualify via a playoff - let alone noticing the fact that Holland nearly missed out on even that route, pipping Rumania on goal-difference by a solitary goal to second place in their qualifying group.
Moreover the side was riven by an Ajax based race war, culminating in the black midfielder Edgar Davids being sent home after he furiously attacked Hiddink for allegedly taking the white players views into account and ignoring those of the black players. The Holland side that we orgasmically judge ourselves against for evermore, scored TWO goals in the entire tournament and crashed out at the group stage.
- Harry Redknapp is Jesus. (One trophy in 20-odd years of management).
- England have a Golden generation equal to the best in the world.
- FIFA are useless foreign tw*ts who denied us the World Cup out of spite, just because they hate us.
Despite the fact that FIFA had stated long before that they were giving priority to developing football nations and that on that basis, pundits with half a brain like Tim Vickery, were warning long before that it was a futile bid.
- FIFA are useless foreign ***** who are too out of touch to realise that Video Technology is a no-brainer that works perfectly in other sports.
Despite the fact that video evidence is still controversial in cricket where it has encroached from line decisions into LBW and slowed the game down - just as FIFA state they are wary of.
- Barcelona wouldn't last five minutes in the Premier League with that tippy-tappy Bullsh*t they play in the uncompetitive La Liga, where they play cannon fodder most weeks (like Athletic Bilbao, five places and 22 points behind Barca, who just handed the best team in England their ars*s on a plate).
- X, Y, Z manager (usually Wenger) is a useless tw*t for being careful with money and not spending big in the transfer market.
- Overspending and debt by English clubs is an unsustainable scandal.
- Fans being priced out of the game is an unsustainable scandal.
- Isn't it wonderful that the Premier League is the richest Leaue in the World?
I could go on.
I say again, I don't buy this "football phone-in callers are more well-informed" argument.
That has to be one of the best posts ever. Brilliant analysis.
Thanks.
Take another look. I thought I'd edit it to add Capello's and Erikkson's career achievements to compare and contrast with the cockney geniuses Venables and Redknapp.
I got that impression too. He has come over here primarily to see his mother for her 75th birthday, so I'm not sure how much notice he will have given the staff at talkSPORT of his intention to drop in but I'm sure they were more than happy to have him join them in the studio given the cult following he has and all the good work he's done for them over a great many years. During his past jaunts to the UK he has joined Hawksbee & Jacobs and Danny Kelly on a Thursday night Kick-Off show in the studio; on the first occasion he was the featured guest and was the subject of H&J's usual 1.30pm-2.15pm interview that day, on the second he was Danny's co-host for one or two hours of that night's three hour show. I think he got around 20 minutes from 1.30am this morning if anyone wants to listen back, which was brilliant for what it was but like you I had hoped he'd be on for longer.
Got to say I found Tim's guest slot to be really inspiring radio. He didn't really touch upon football at all - instead he chose to give us an insight into how and why he first ventured over to Brazil and how he lived hand to mouth in his first few months in Rio. He also told us about how his brother's work took him to live in Cambodia, gave his thoughts about how student life can widen a person's horizons and his worries about how this seems to be lost on today's generation of students, gave a firm and intelligent defence of immigration and the character this has given to his childhood home town of Hemel Hempstead and he even empathised with callers who were upset about the end of current affairs programming on talkSPORT, but at the same time expressed how sport can so often reflect wider culture and bring a lot of joy to people's lives. It was really fascinating stuff from my favourite journalist, I now have even more respect for Tim than I had before listening last night.
For those doubtful about sport content taking over the overnight slot, see if you can dig out Tim's section on Listen Again and see what you think. If we're going to get content a fraction as intelligent and thought-provoking as that on a nightly basis I won't have any complaints. Compare that to the call that Mike said an early goodbye to Tim in order to squeeze in before the news - from regular Christine - who phoned up to tell us that football is not worth bothering with and that looking up to the stars was much more interesting. With apologies to genuine stargazers out there, I know who I found much the more interesting.
Fine, but as you say, it was only twenty minutes, like the vast majority of his TS appearances, compared with the two hours he gets on FiveLive. I agree with the comment about sport reflecting wider culture, but seriously, is this the angle you find prevalent on TS, beyond the odd atypical show or feature? IF we get thought provoking content like Tim Vickery's contributions, then I won't have any complaints either - but its a big "if".
The problem is, that the more corporatist commercial radio has become, the more it has (understandably) engaged in a race to simplicity and homegeneity.
It's possible that TS will start out with good intentions, but if profit is God to the extent that they have followed the lead of most of the major groups and driven a coach and horses through the spirit, if not the letter, of their original licence, how long will it be before the content is relentlessly dumbed down to endless phone-ins on identical topics covered in the day, for those night lorry-drivers who weren't awake to listen to them the first time?
I won't lay a bet on when, but I'm fairly confident that will be the eventual direction of overnights.
Maybe not, but at the same time I don't consider talkSPORT to be completely dominated by Drive Time or Weekend Sports Breakfast esque shows either. Although perhaps not to Vickery's immensely high standards, take a look at the thoughtful and intelligent content that is broadcast on programmes like Full Contact, Football First with Ian Danter and My Sporting Life.
Like the new overnight show, as weekend evening output all of these programmes are broadcast in non-peak timeslots in terms of chasing ratings and advertisers. I have read a post in another thread from a poster who appears to have a good knowledge of the radio industry, which says that talkSPORT's overnight listenership represents a mere 3 per cent of the station's total audience. If this is even close to the truth I would consider it very unlikely that talkSPORT management see it being imperative that the new overnight show becomes a ratings winner in the short to medium term.
If the three programmes I mention can be given the time to try to do something more intelligent than the norms of much of sports radio and build an audience to go with this, then I don't see why the new overnight programme (sitting in arguably an even less important slot from the view of talkSPORT management) won't be given a reasonable amount of time to produce items of the kind we heard from Tim last night that eventually taps into a niche audience slightly larger than the one this slot is getting in its present form. And that's why I am cautiously optimistic about the new direction the overnight show will be going in.
I totally agree with you about the stupidity of the sports callers, and the fact that I say they are slightly more informed than the overnight current affairs callers (i have said that shows like they have on LBC during the day get a much higher calibre of callers,) doesn't mean I find them well informed in any way.
It's like saying Warwick Davis is taller than Verne Troyer.
As I said, it's a matter of degrees. Though I agree that the callers who regurgitate that sort of rubbish do bore me, if the sort of callers who call late night shows called in about sport their arguments would be more like 'You can't trust Arsene Wenger because he's a lizard from Mars.', 'Roman Abromovich is a member of the Illuminati,' and' Per Mertesacker is a Naxi.'
And what have you done with your life that's so impressive? Why is Matt Forde fair game for the nastiest sort of personal abuse, yet and questioning Mike Graham's intelligence makes you the subject of a bullying hate campaign.
Obviously I don't agree with that point of view, but since the thing I find endearing about Wright's comedy person is that he comes off as the 'amiable idiot,' so I suppose I can laugh at his moronic comments.
Morning all and bye for now.
Have a couple of questions though?
1. Is it Carnivalist who has been putting something in my tea, as I'm starting to agree with him on quite a few of his posts?
2. What on earth IS a "mash up" ?
You have to admit, it's an interesting thread .....
That was an all nighter, Mark. We must be mad.
Bye and thanks for being around.
Mornin' ned.
This was like Saturday night/Sunday morning all over again.
I'll let NRR tell you what a mashup is, not my field of expertise.