Would you say the US is an open market? Do you think doctors are paid less there?
No, doctors have a cartel over there.
By a free market I mean Doctors working no differently to other tradesmen, painters & decorators, plumbers, electricians and the like. You get sick, you look in the yellow pages and ring one up.
By a free market I mean Doctors working no differently to other tradesmen, painters & decorators, plumbers, electricians and the like. You get sick, you look in the yellow pages and ring one up.
As much as you may hate to admit it, the reason GP's are opposing the reforms in because it may effect their pay checks.
That's simplistic and deeply unfair to the doctors and surgeons who are proposing to stand because they are doing this on a point of principle and out of long term concern for the care that their patients will get:
The 240 signatures – including 30 professors – underline the depth of anger felt by NHS frontline staff at the legislation which they claim "fundamentally undermines the founding principles" of the health service...Pointing out that none of the major professional associations and healthcare organisations has supported the reforms, the letter says: "It is our view that coalition MPs and peers have placed the political survival of the coalition government above professional opinion, patient safety and the will of the citizens of this country.
Rather than make inaccurate comments, I strongly suggest that you first actually read the article here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/doctors-bid-to-unseat-50-mps-in-revenge-over-nhs-bill-7576423.html and the actual letter itself from the doctors and surgeons here: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/letters/article7576235.ece
As healthcare professionals, we are appalled that the coalition Government has imposed many of the changes before the bill has even been enacted and then tried to use this as “evidence” that the professions support their reform. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Government has systematically failed to make the case for such radical change to the NHS, which has recently been shown to be one of the most cost effective and highly performing healthcare systems in the world, enjoying its highest ever public satisfaction rates.
Depends what doctor you call though doesn't it. If all the doctors there are at the moment were forced to compete with each other for business, they wouldn't be earning £100,000 a year, or anything like it.
Interesting to note that these medicos are targetting Lib Dems and Marginal Tory seats...................but not marginal Labour Seats.
Or, is it just the cynic in me which believes that what they're really after is a return to Labour "throw more money at the NHS" policies.
Nope - it's because it just happens to be a Tory/Lib Dem government that are making these unnecessary, dangerous and pointless changes that'll waste a couple of billion pounds that really ought to go into patient care instead.
The doctors won't be standing in SNP, Plaid Cymru or Green seats because these parties do not support these wretched reforms. Although they don't yet have any MPs, UKIP has also expressed concern about the direction of the reforms and the effects that they could have so it's a cheap point to pretend that it's a conventional left-right thing when it's not.
How much do you think they'd get if it was an open market?
David Starkey was absolutely right with what he said about Doctors. If the Tories offered them more money, they'd forget about any opposition they had to the NHS reforms. Unfortunately, the Tories aren't going to do that.
Doctors in America operate in an open market and they get paid a LOT More generally
There's a response there that I think may just have rekindled my jaded hopes for democracy:
Many years ago at my graduation ceremony from medical school, the Professor of Medicine had these words for all present during his speech.
"As you go forth into the world, remember that one day you will need to be involved with politics, for it is political policies that have the greatest and most lasting impact on each and everyone of your patients.
As a doctor, you will have the opportunity to influence the care of thousands of patients during the lifetime of your practise.
Political policies on the other hand impacts on millions of patients directly, and for many generations."
The National Health Service is one of those rare political entities, born of consensus with society at large, which seeks to benefit society wholly and all those who dedicated their life and energy to practise and serve in it.
The NHS is a perfect circle encompassing the very best values of a civilised and compassionate society, which puts the interests of the sick, weak and vulnerable first and foremost, cared for by the best society and the commonwealth have to offer, with very modest costs by any standards.
As Doctors, whether we realise it or not, whether we want it or not, we all have political capital entrusted to us by society. Because it is capital derived from relationships of trust, it has to be used wisely and can only be used once.
The time has now come for this capital to be used, for the sake of all our patients, the future of young doctors and for the sake of medicine itself, practised as a selfless professional service to society.
In this form, it can only exist and flourish in the original ethos of caritas of the NHS.
My name is Samuel Chew, and I am a Geriatric Consultant and I stand up for the NHS.
I hope you will join me and do the same.
Thank you.
Luckily for me it seems my constituency is one of those likely to be targeted.
Doctors in America operate in an open market and they get paid a LOT More generally
Doctors in America do NOT operate in an open market what with HMOs etc. You do not understand what a true open market is if you think that is the case.
Doctors in America do NOT operate in an open market what with HMOs etc. You do not understand what a true open market is if you think that is the case.
Erm they do. I have just come back from America and there where various ER's competing on waiting time. One case there was two hospitals next door to each other.
Erm they do. I have just come back from America and there where various ER's competing on waiting time. One case there was two hospitals next door to each other.
No, you don't understand what a free market is. Go and do some research.
No, you don't understand what a free market is. Go and do some research.
A) I understand what a free market is. There has never been one.
C) There has always been some for of crony-capitalism of corporatism.
D) This is because the real "free market" can't exist; its too unstable and too riddled with internal contradictions.
In that sense a genuine "free market" is like "real communism" - never going to happen because it simply does not work.
Depends what doctor you call though doesn't it. If all the doctors there are at the moment were forced to compete with each other for business, they wouldn't be earning £100,000 a year, or anything like it.
Have you ever paid for a plumber from the Yellow Pages?
By a free market I mean Doctors working no differently to other tradesmen, painters & decorators, plumbers, electricians and the like. You get sick, you look in the yellow pages and ring one up.
Yeah right. Wait until you have serious health issue that mean you need regular GP visits and then see how much that idea seems sensible.
This kind of direct action makes me very very happy. Especially since comedy Dave and his band of merry Bullingdons seem intent of excluding them from the talks.
Mind you given the speed of comedy Dave I doubt we'll have much NHS worth saving by the time the next GE rolls around.
Comments
Worked for the Labour Party
Labour & Lib Dems , did not contest the Tatton seat in 97 leaving the way clear for Martin Bell to unseat Neil Hamilton.
As much as you may hate to admit it, the reason GP's are opposing the reforms in because it may effect their pay checks.
Blimey! Countless adults and children live in poverty in this country and that is a major issue for you?
Priorities, dear boy, priorities!
By a free market I mean Doctors working no differently to other tradesmen, painters & decorators, plumbers, electricians and the like. You get sick, you look in the yellow pages and ring one up.
Same here, ShaunIOW, as where I live it's also a yellow/blue contest so I'd certainly vote for an independent doctor if one stood.
....and then get a nice big bill.
That's simplistic and deeply unfair to the doctors and surgeons who are proposing to stand because they are doing this on a point of principle and out of long term concern for the care that their patients will get:
The 240 signatures – including 30 professors – underline the depth of anger felt by NHS frontline staff at the legislation which they claim "fundamentally undermines the founding principles" of the health service...Pointing out that none of the major professional associations and healthcare organisations has supported the reforms, the letter says: "It is our view that coalition MPs and peers have placed the political survival of the coalition government above professional opinion, patient safety and the will of the citizens of this country.
Rather than make inaccurate comments, I strongly suggest that you first actually read the article here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/doctors-bid-to-unseat-50-mps-in-revenge-over-nhs-bill-7576423.html and the actual letter itself from the doctors and surgeons here: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/letters/article7576235.ece
As healthcare professionals, we are appalled that the coalition Government has imposed many of the changes before the bill has even been enacted and then tried to use this as “evidence” that the professions support their reform. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Government has systematically failed to make the case for such radical change to the NHS, which has recently been shown to be one of the most cost effective and highly performing healthcare systems in the world, enjoying its highest ever public satisfaction rates.
Nope - it's because it just happens to be a Tory/Lib Dem government that are making these unnecessary, dangerous and pointless changes that'll waste a couple of billion pounds that really ought to go into patient care instead.
The doctors won't be standing in SNP, Plaid Cymru or Green seats because these parties do not support these wretched reforms. Although they don't yet have any MPs, UKIP has also expressed concern about the direction of the reforms and the effects that they could have so it's a cheap point to pretend that it's a conventional left-right thing when it's not.
Doctors in America operate in an open market and they get paid a LOT More generally
Luckily for me it seems my constituency is one of those likely to be targeted.
If it is I know where my vote will go.
Erm they do. I have just come back from America and there where various ER's competing on waiting time. One case there was two hospitals next door to each other.
I suggest you go and research how the American healthcare system operates, It does operate in the closest thing to a free market that you can get..
But I guess you must be a philosopher with an more developed understanding of the free market than all of us. That is why you work in Sainsburys.
A) I understand what a free market is.
C) There has always been some for of crony-capitalism of corporatism.
D) This is because the real "free market" can't exist; its too unstable and too riddled with internal contradictions.
In that sense a genuine "free market" is like "real communism" - never going to happen because it simply does not work.
You are just making that up.
Doctors stand to become immensly rich, like their US counterparts
Many would become millionaires in fact.
So objecting to these so-called reforms is a very principled stand indeed.
In fact this gives a clue as to the real identity of the "new right", they aren't conservative at all.
They are extremists, closer to fascists then we have ever had in this country before.
No wonder so many real Conservatives are turning against this coalition.
Have you ever paid for a plumber from the Yellow Pages?
Yeah right. Wait until you have serious health issue that mean you need regular GP visits and then see how much that idea seems sensible.
Mind you given the speed of comedy Dave I doubt we'll have much NHS worth saving by the time the next GE rolls around.