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Could, would Hodgson drop all the old failures?

OsusanaOsusana Posts: 7,535
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Just thinking that as he seems to be on a hiding to nothing with a section of the English press, what about Hodgson saying a metaphorical 'stuff it' and dropping Terry, Ferdinand and Lampard from the England squad totally?

I'd keep Gerrard as captain (and I'm a United fan) - but he really does have a glut of still good and up and coming defenders. Just off the top of my head and not in order of any preference:

Cahill
Lescott
Jagielka
Richards
Baines
Cole
Walker
Possibly Smalling and Jones although maybe for later.......

Not so sure about midfield but with the likes of Barry, Gerrard, Parker likely to be called up, Lampard is too similar for me?

No-one is expecting England to win this tournament, so let's give people experience?
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    seelleeseellee Posts: 10,725
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    If Hodgson drops most of the old guard, I'll support him to the hilt, even as a Liverpool fan. If he keeps them in he will go th ay of every other England manager recently. One of the things he should be concentrating on is getting the dressing room back and turfing out the old favourites.
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    celesticelesti Posts: 26,047
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    He should drop players he deems no longer good enough or not fitting into how he wants to play. Not based on DOB or to make a statement.
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    KierenjKierenj Posts: 2,457
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    I'm not sure why people keep going on about Jagielka and Lescott... both over rated for me.

    Looking at the last month or so I can't see how you wouldn't pick Ferdinand and Terry... it see,s fashionable to hate on them at the minute but I am failing to see better performing English CBs... also, Lampard seemed to do pretty well against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets... probably quite important for the Euros.

    I wouldn't pick Gerrard, underperformed all season and don't give me any rubbish about injuries... if he isn't performing, he isn't performing... others are.
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    KierenjKierenj Posts: 2,457
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    and let's not forget the "big statement" Steve McLaren made pandering to press and fans by dropping Beckham.. how'd that go again?
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    Richie1001Richie1001 Posts: 8,217
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    celesti wrote: »
    He should drop players he deems no longer good enough or not fitting into how he wants to play. Not based on DOB or to make a statement.

    This.
    Kierenj wrote: »
    and let's not forget the "big statement" Steve McLaren made pandering to press and fans by dropping Beckham.. how'd that go again?

    Also this.
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    bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
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    Kierenj wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people keep going on about Jagielka and Lescott... both over rated for me.

    Looking at the last month or so I can't see how you wouldn't pick Ferdinand and Terry... it see,s fashionable to hate on them at the minute but I am failing to see better performing English CBs... also, Lampard seemed to do pretty well against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets... probably quite important for the Euros.

    Interesting that you bring up the Barca match for Lampard yet you ignore how well Jagielka and Lescott did together against Spain.
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    Big Boy BarryBig Boy Barry Posts: 35,449
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    He'll play it safe and stick with the old guard.
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    TeeGeeTeeGee Posts: 5,772
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    As if defence and midfield were not a big enough problem England need to find a couple of players who actually know where the back of the net is!! :(
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    seelleeseellee Posts: 10,725
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    Kierenj wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people keep going on about Jagielka and Lescott... both over rated for me.

    Looking at the last month or so I can't see how you wouldn't pick Ferdinand and Terry... it see,s fashionable to hate on them at the minute but I am failing to see better performing English CBs... also, Lampard seemed to do pretty well against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets... probably quite important for the Euros.

    I wouldn't pick Gerrard, underperformed all season and don't give me any rubbish about injuries... if he isn't performing, he isn't performing... others are.

    I think it's dangerous to pick John Terry, purely because he splits the dressing room. No matter how well he's playing. Roy Hodgson cannot manage big personalities/players.
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    OsusanaOsusana Posts: 7,535
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    Kierenj wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people keep going on about Jagielka and Lescott... both over rated for me.

    Looking at the last month or so I can't see how you wouldn't pick Ferdinand and Terry... it see,s fashionable to hate on them at the minute but I am failing to see better performing English CBs... also, Lampard seemed to do pretty well against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets... probably quite important for the Euros.

    I wouldn't pick Gerrard, underperformed all season and don't give me any rubbish about injuries... if he isn't performing, he isn't performing... others are.

    Personally I also think that Lescott and Jagielka are not as good as Terry and Ferdinand BUT both the latter are now slowing down (well one of them never had pace) and against nippy, skillful midfields like Spain and Germany, I can see then being caught out a lot.

    I'm not a fan of Stevie Me at times but do think he can still change a game with his attitude and not split a dressing room like Terry does.
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    Cantona07Cantona07 Posts: 56,910
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    Terry shouldnt be picked because he causes more problems than he solves but the idea that the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand etc should be discarded by Hodgson to please people obsessed witht the idea of a "new start" will only hamper him in his job. Terrible idea.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,538
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    I think of all the 'old' lot he will hang on Gerrard initially. He is someone he has worked with and probably trusts as an ally to pull a team together. There won't be any dressing room tantrums with him in place, and once the set up is going well, he may drop him for a younger captain. I know his fitness is a concern, but for the start he's a safe bet.
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    BomoLadBomoLad Posts: 17,821
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    Why are they failures? Because they haven't won a World Cup? Is that the measuring stick of failure now?
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    OsusanaOsusana Posts: 7,535
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    BomoLad wrote: »
    Why are they failures? Because they haven't won a World Cup? Is that the measuring stick of failure now?

    Because they have been involved in every England squad for the last few tournaments, squads which have underperformed badly in my opinion.
    Not winning tournaments is a given, as there are better teams out there, but at times the lack of togetherness in the squad, combined with less than good performances, marks them out as history to me.

    I'm in favour of a new approach and that means playing those who we think are the future, not the past
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    NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    Osusana wrote: »
    Just thinking that as he seems to be on a hiding to nothing with a section of the English press, what about Hodgson saying a metaphorical 'stuff it' and dropping Terry, Ferdinand and Lampard from the England squad totally?

    I'd keep Gerrard as captain (and I'm a United fan) - but he really does have a glut of still good and up and coming defenders. Just off the top of my head and not in order of any preference:

    Cahill
    Lescott
    Jagielka
    Richards
    Baines
    Cole
    Walker
    Possibly Smalling and Jones although maybe for later.......

    Not so sure about midfield but with the likes of Barry, Gerrard, Parker likely to be called up, Lampard is too similar for me?

    No-one is expecting England to win this tournament, so let's give people experience?

    Bin these 4 off and now you're talking.

    I also don't want to hear the name Crouch either.
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    BomoLadBomoLad Posts: 17,821
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    Osusana wrote: »
    Because they have been involved in every England squad for the last few tournaments, squads which have underperformed badly in my opinion.
    Not winning tournaments is a given, as there are better teams out there, but at times the lack of togetherness in the squad, combined with less than good performances, marks them out as history to me.

    I'm in favour of a new approach and that means playing those who we think are the future, not the past

    We must be careful though not to be glib about this. It isn't a case of 'well you've all had a go and it didn't work, now lets bring the kids in'

    Don't get me wrong, I'd be in favour of Hodgson predominantly looking at the future for the Euros. But these kids, if they are to get the most from their experience, need the old heads around them. To observe, to ask questions, to learn from. Even if it's on issues of how to behave away from home on an international tournament. How to pass the time, how to save off cabin fever and all that.

    I don't think it's wise for Hodgson to act like scout master and take a bunch of kids out there who have never been away from one for more than a couple of nights. Not entirely anyway. I think experiences heads, even if they're not called upon as first choice, will have a calming influence on some of the more younger members of the team on certain matters that i think could prove important.
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    NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    seellee wrote: »
    If Hodgson drops most of the old guard, I'll support him to the hilt, even as a Liverpool fan. If he keeps them in he will go th ay of every other England manager recently. One of the things he should be concentrating on is getting the dressing room back and turfing out the old favourites.

    Let's go for it I say.


    We've not set the world alight with any of the old tried and tested so it's time for new faces.
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    BomoLadBomoLad Posts: 17,821
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    Let's go for it I say.


    We've not set the world alight with any of the old tried and tested so it's time for new faces.

    But what is this definition of setting the world alight?

    No one player or group were responsible for England not winning the World Cup in nearly 50 years.
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    OsusanaOsusana Posts: 7,535
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    BomoLad wrote: »
    We must be careful though not to be glib about this. It isn't a case of 'well you've all had a go and it didn't work, now lets bring the kids in'

    Don't get me wrong, I'd be in favour of Hodgson predominantly looking at the future for the Euros. But these kids, if they are to get the most from their experience, need the old heads around them. To observe, to ask questions, to learn from. Even if it's on issues of how to behave away from home on an international tournament. How to pass the time, how to save off cabin fever and all that.

    I don't think it's wise for Hodgson to act like scout master and take a bunch of kids out there who have never been away from one for more than a couple of nights. Not entirely anyway. I think experiences heads, even if they're not called upon as first choice, will have a calming influence on some of the more younger members of the team on certain matters that i think could prove important.

    Fair comment - I'm not advocating taking the under 21 squad though. There are experienced heads (if young like Hart) that can guide the younger ones. A mix would be good for me.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 64,004
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    Hopefully he will make a fresh start and phase out the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Cole etc etc.
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    Lindy_LoueLindy_Loue Posts: 9,874
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Hopefully he will make a fresh start and phase out the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Cole etc etc.

    The same Cole who played so well against Barca??

    (And I'm a Liverpool fan)
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    NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    BomoLad wrote: »
    But what is this definition of setting the world alight?

    No one player or group were responsible for England not winning the World Cup in nearly 50 years.

    No but they are responsible for what they produced when playing for England over the years that they pulled on the England shirt.

    Terry and Rio, regardless of the fact that both are past their best do we need all the Anton Ferdinand hoohar dragging into the Euros?

    Let's remember the negativity from the last World Cup surrounding Terry and the dressing room. Let's make it easier for ourselves, Terry would be better watching on the telly at home. Rio will probably get injured before he's even started a game anyway.

    Gerrard's been in and out of the Liverpool squad with injury for most of the season.

    Lampard usually provides his best performances when he's wearing a Chelsea shirt anyway so I'd have no problem omitting him tbh.
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    NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    Lindy_Loue wrote: »
    The same Cole who played so well against Barca??

    (And I'm a Liverpool fan)

    When did England play Barca?

    How many players play a blinder for the club and fail to deliver internationally?

    But I would take Cole.
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    Lindy_LoueLindy_Loue Posts: 9,874
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    When did England play Barca?

    How many players play a blinder for the club and fail to deliver internationally?

    But I would take Cole.

    I take your point

    And I'd take him too :D
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    KierenjKierenj Posts: 2,457
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    bobcar wrote: »
    Interesting that you bring up the Barca match for Lampard yet you ignore how well Jagielka and Lescott did together against Spain.

    It's not that interesting... I'm picking people on form... not on what they did 6 months ago... I thought that's what you wanted Hodgson to do? Make your mind up :rolleyes:
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