Then everyone should need a licence to own a dog. And have to undertake a short course in how to look after one.
The trouble with bringing back dog licences is that the responsible dog owners would comply, and do everything legally and properly. But the idiots who get these dogs and train them to be violent would not bother about getting the required licence.
Something does need to be done though, but the problem is that while puppy farms and irresponsible breeders continue to ply their trade, thugs and idiots will continue to buy dogs from them.
The trouble with bringing back dog licences is that the responsible dog owners would comply, and do everything legally and properly. But the idiots who get these dogs and train them to be violent would not bother about getting the required licence.
Yes. But then the police could confiscate their dogs before they commit a damaging attack just for them being not licensed, off leads, and/and someone complaining about them rather than waiting until after someone is hurt.
Yes. But then the police could confiscate their dogs before they commit a damaging attack just for them being not licensed, off leads, and/and someone complaining about them rather than waiting until after someone is hurt.
Therein lies the problem though, of what will become of the confiscated dogs. If the dogs weren't produced in the first place they wouldn't need to be confiscated. Perhaps a combination of a license and efforts to abolish puppy farms would be the answer. I don't understand why you don't need a license to breed dogs at the very least.
I'm not sure how microchipping or licences would stop dog attacks. Yes, the police would know whose dog it was (assuming they caught it) but how would they stop the attacks in the first place?
don't make me you're example. i'm simply saying that my dog is smaller than a cat and couldn't hurt you if he tried.
Ok, say a labrador is big enough to attack an adult, a chihuahua (or other tiny dog), is proportionally much bigger to a toddler, who is likewise less able to anticipate the attack or defend themselves.
I had a cat which was pretty small in size, but she went beserk at a massive English Shepard sniffing at her kittens - it left with a limp. Size is no guarantee of power or irascibility and you're doing your argument more harm than good to suggest that your dog couldn't harm anybody.
And there is the problem in a nutshell and why all dogs should be required to be on a lead - so that people can't argue for all dogs except theirs cos theirs is special, well trained, tiny, cute etc etc etc.
Spot on! All dogs on leads in public places (including mine).
Over the years I've had dogs of all shapes and sizes and they've all been good dogs. Out of courtesy to other people I always have my dog on a lead when they approach and I like to think they'll do the same but a lot don't.:(
I never blame the dogs for attacks it's their owners that should get blame totally. I believe all dogs no matter what breed are good if handled by a responsible owner.
I had to take my dog (an aging gentle golden retriever) out at 5.30am in the mornings for her walks to avoid idiots who couldn't control their dogs.
It's even worse in the school holidays when some dopey parents think it's perfectly fine to let their little 9 year old angel take the family 12st rottweiler or (usually locked up in the yard without human contact for hours) Staffordshire Bull for a walk on their own. :rolleyes:
Complete nonsense, dangerous dogs can easily attack on a lead as usually the owners aren't strong enough to hold them back.
Oh so the alternative is all dogs just run loose? :rolleyes: Things have got to change and the way forward is by ensuring that ALL dogs in a public place are on a lead.
Even the most irresponsible owner who has not bothered to train his dog would have more chance of controlling the dog if it's on a lead.
Ok, say a labrador is big enough to attack an adult, a chihuahua (or other tiny dog), is proportionally much bigger to a toddler, who is likewise less able to anticipate the attack or defend themselves.
I had a cat which was pretty small in size, but she went beserk at a massive English Shepard sniffing at her kittens - it left with a limp. Size is no guarantee of power or irascibility and you're doing your argument more harm than good to suggest that your dog couldn't harm anybody.
it's all about acceptable risk. yes a chiwawa could give a child nasty nip. but it couldn't bite it's face off. unless you plan to get rid of all dogs, cats, guinea pigs you have to make a judgement on what is acceptable.
Yes. But then the police could confiscate their dogs before they commit a damaging attack just for them being not licensed, off leads, and/and someone complaining about them rather than waiting until after someone is hurt.
But how would you police it? If someone buys a puppy illegally and doesn't licence it, how is anyone going to know and be able to take the dog from him/her? Unless someone informs on them, it's not likely to happen. And I honestly don't see how it would stop dog attacks.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a responsible dog owner and definitely agree that something needs to be done. But all licencing would do is regulate those that are already responsible owners.
I'm not sure how microchipping or licences would stop dog attacks. Yes, the police would know whose dog it was (assuming they caught it) but how would they stop the attacks in the first place?
It won't is your short answer. A pointless and very costly exercise, which will only satisfy the modern need for thinking that legislation is a panacea for all ills and would be an absolute bonanza for vets and the vast admin system needed to cope with it.
And before you ask, yes I am a dog owner, and yes I voluntarily microchip all my dogs.
If you must bring in rules regarding out of control dogs, then target the owners, not meaningless laws regarding certain ill-defined breeds (most of which are vague cross-breeds in any case). It is ALREADY an offence to be responsible for a dogs that is behaving dangerously under the current DDA - stiffer and more permanent penalties for owners are what are in order if anything.
it's all about acceptable risk. yes a chiwawa could give a child nasty nip. but it couldn't bite it's face off. unless you plan to get rid of all dogs, cats, guinea pigs you have to make a judgement on what is acceptable.
No one is saying get rid of anything. Cats and guinea pigs generally aren't let loose in public areas along with children. At what size should dogs be leashed then, or is it only chihuahuas that should be excepted? A chihuahua is also capable of running up to a guide dog and attacking it. It might not do much damage but it will distract and annoy the dog, and it would be detrimental to the person that dog is guiding. There really is no sensible argument against the standard use of leads in public places.
But how would you police it? If someone buys a puppy illegally and doesn't licence it, how is anyone going to know and be able to take the dog from him/her? Unless someone informs on them, it's not likely to happen. And I honestly don't see how it would stop dog attacks.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a responsible dog owner and definitely agree that something needs to be done. But all licencing would do is regulate those that are already responsible owners.
People can inform about a dog that is scaring their kids, regularly off the lead making visits to parks or common areas difficult at present and nothing is done because the dog hasn't yet attacked a person or is difficult to identify. I don't think licencing would stop dog attacks but it probably would make them less likely if in tandem people could be punished for not doing those things before the dog is totally out of control. It should also be combined with stronger rules about nuisance dogs, those off their lead, left to run around etc. and a record would be kept of irresponsible dog owners that would build up so it would be easier judge when there is a pattern of bad ownership. This would also make punishment easier when there are serious attacks as there would be a record to show the owner was irresponsible.
No one is saying get rid of anything. Cats and guinea pigs generally aren't let loose in public areas along with children.
do we mean the same thing by 'cat'?
At what size should dogs be leashed then, or is it only chihuahuas that should be excepted? A chihuahua is also capable of running up to a guide dog and attacking it. It might not do much damage but it will distract and annoy the dog, and it would be detrimental to the person that dog is guiding. There really is no sensible argument against the standard use of leads in public places.
if we are setting the bar at simply being able to distract a guide dog you are going to have to leash the pigeons too.
My elderly (14 years old) much loved ex guide dog is upstairs asleep at this moment. We had the greatest of pleasure puppy walking her and 3 other beautiful loving dogs from giude dogs. Sadly 2 of our dogs were attacked by other dogs, one very nearly lost an eye. Not only did I contact the guide dogs but also the police. The owner of the dog who attacked my last boy was warned his dog would be destroyed if it went anywhere near another dog and had to be kept on a lead at all times out of doors. Unfortunately for the dog he thought he was above the law...resulting in the dog being pts. My sleeping wee soul was also attacked by another dog, both on leads. The owner was a friend and both dogs knew each other extremely well. Even worse though was the fact she had been horribly and cruelly abused by the "dear old blind lady" she was paired with. Luckily guide dogs realised, stepped in and took her back to the safety of their kennels. We were phoned and offered her back. Jumped straight in and said yes. I was totally heartbroken to see what this woman had done to my dog. She stays quite near to me and should I ever run into her she will be the first to know about it,
if we are setting the bar at simply being able to distract a guide dog you are going to have to leash the pigeons too.
There are stray cats in parks but I haven't heard of any cases of them attacking guide dogs or children, generally they run away and hide. I don't think pigeons are going to start playing or fighting with guard dogs. I don't know why you are bringing cats, guinea pigs and birds into a discussion about dogs, they are totally different animals. If birds attacking guide dogs was a sensible discussion i'm sure there would be a thread about it.
Complete nonsense, dangerous dogs can easily attack on a lead as usually the owners aren't strong enough to hold them back.
Yes they'll always be dogs that slip their leads or were the owners can't hold them back (saw one of those this morning - woman with a pushchair, a toddler and a dog pulling frantically on the lead that she could never had held onto if it had decided to chase something). But keeping dogs on leads would greatly reduce the numbers running across parks and down roads and attacking other dogs, cats and people.
It won't is your short answer. A pointless and very costly exercise, which will only satisfy the modern need for thinking that legislation is a panacea for all ills and would be an absolute bonanza for vets and the vast admin system needed to cope with it.
And before you ask, yes I am a dog owner, and yes I voluntarily microchip all my dogs.
If you must bring in rules regarding out of control dogs, then target the owners, not meaningless laws regarding certain ill-defined breeds (most of which are vague cross-breeds in any case). It is ALREADY an offence to be responsible for a dogs that is behaving dangerously under the current DDA - stiffer and more permanent penalties for owners are what are in order if anything.
Exactly. Microchipping will have no impact on dog attacks and I'm at a loss as to why organisations like Dogs Trust and the RSPCA are championing it. It will though, as you say, be a nice little earner for vets and pet register companies. And before anyone asks, we have 2 dogs and 3 cats, all of whom are microchipped in case they lost or stolen.
No one is saying get rid of anything. Cats and guinea pigs generally aren't let loose in public areas along with children. At what size should dogs be leashed then, or is it only chihuahuas that should be excepted? A chihuahua is also capable of running up to a guide dog and attacking it. It might not do much damage but it will distract and annoy the dog, and it would be detrimental to the person that dog is guiding. There really is no sensible argument against the standard use of leads in public places.
Not to mention that if a chihuahua ran up to a large dog and started biting it, the big dog may retaliate and would probably get the blame, especially if it was a 'staffy type'.
But the idiots who get these dogs and train them to be violent would not bother about getting the required licence.
Exactly. They would treat any legislation intended to control them, be it licences, microchipping or muzzling, in exactly the same way as many treat the law on guns and knives - they would totally ignore it.
Coincidence that there is a thread on guide dogs today. I just came back from town and a guide dog did a whoopsie (three dollops and a puddle no less).in the bank.
The partially sighted owner was mortified at what he had done. People started telling her. I felt really sorry for her.
A kind lady customer helped her pick them up wih a doggy bag and the bank staff put a wet floor sign up and they quickly came to mop the floor clean.
Naughty doggy
Oh so the alternative is all dogs just run loose? :rolleyes: Things have got to change and the way forward is by ensuring that ALL dogs in a public place are on a lead.
Even the most irresponsible owner who has not bothered to train his dog would have more chance of controlling the dog if it's on a lead.
I'm sure the country would be a much safer place with many humans on leads with their hands tied by their sides. Properly trained non dangerous dogs shouldn't be any problem off the leash in a park etc., of course on roads they should be on a leash.
Then everyone should need a licence to own a dog. And have to undertake a short course in how to look after one.
Speaking as a lifelong dog-owner.... That suits me fine - I totally agree.
And by 'licence', I mean proper licensing, with stiff penalties for transgressors.
(As opposed to the old 37½p 'token' licence)
If all dogs were kept on a lead in public places....
Agree - Even though my dog is the softest of attention-tarts, with people AND other dogs - he never gets completely loose, except in out of the way places when there's no-one around - and even then, I'm constantly on the lookout.
I know he'd never instigate any violence, but I also realise that many people would rather not have someone else's dog slobbering all over them.
I'm sure the country would be a much safer place with many humans on leads with their hands tied by their sides. Properly trained non dangerous dogs shouldn't be any problem off the leash in a park etc., of course on roads they should be on a leash.
here we go again
what does it take to get through to some people
all dogs can be dangerous, there are no exceptions (except dead ones)
The woman whose guide dog was attacked was interviewed on the news earlier, and she actually said she heard the guy urge his dog to go for her guide dog.
There really are some sick and twisted people out there.
what does it take to get through to some people
all dogs can be dangerous
As can people be, if they are not properly trained or brought up, in the case of dogs bred for aggressiveness they need to be handled by especially experienced or trained owners.
Comments
The trouble with bringing back dog licences is that the responsible dog owners would comply, and do everything legally and properly. But the idiots who get these dogs and train them to be violent would not bother about getting the required licence.
Something does need to be done though, but the problem is that while puppy farms and irresponsible breeders continue to ply their trade, thugs and idiots will continue to buy dogs from them.
Yes. But then the police could confiscate their dogs before they commit a damaging attack just for them being not licensed, off leads, and/and someone complaining about them rather than waiting until after someone is hurt.
Therein lies the problem though, of what will become of the confiscated dogs. If the dogs weren't produced in the first place they wouldn't need to be confiscated. Perhaps a combination of a license and efforts to abolish puppy farms would be the answer. I don't understand why you don't need a license to breed dogs at the very least.
Ok, say a labrador is big enough to attack an adult, a chihuahua (or other tiny dog), is proportionally much bigger to a toddler, who is likewise less able to anticipate the attack or defend themselves.
I had a cat which was pretty small in size, but she went beserk at a massive English Shepard sniffing at her kittens - it left with a limp. Size is no guarantee of power or irascibility and you're doing your argument more harm than good to suggest that your dog couldn't harm anybody.
Spot on! All dogs on leads in public places (including mine).
Over the years I've had dogs of all shapes and sizes and they've all been good dogs. Out of courtesy to other people I always have my dog on a lead when they approach and I like to think they'll do the same but a lot don't.:(
I had to take my dog (an aging gentle golden retriever) out at 5.30am in the mornings for her walks to avoid idiots who couldn't control their dogs.
It's even worse in the school holidays when some dopey parents think it's perfectly fine to let their little 9 year old angel take the family 12st rottweiler or (usually locked up in the yard without human contact for hours) Staffordshire Bull for a walk on their own. :rolleyes:
Oh so the alternative is all dogs just run loose? :rolleyes: Things have got to change and the way forward is by ensuring that ALL dogs in a public place are on a lead.
Even the most irresponsible owner who has not bothered to train his dog would have more chance of controlling the dog if it's on a lead.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13573-dogs-law-you-leaflet-080515.pdf
it's all about acceptable risk. yes a chiwawa could give a child nasty nip. but it couldn't bite it's face off. unless you plan to get rid of all dogs, cats, guinea pigs you have to make a judgement on what is acceptable.
But how would you police it? If someone buys a puppy illegally and doesn't licence it, how is anyone going to know and be able to take the dog from him/her? Unless someone informs on them, it's not likely to happen. And I honestly don't see how it would stop dog attacks.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a responsible dog owner and definitely agree that something needs to be done. But all licencing would do is regulate those that are already responsible owners.
It won't is your short answer. A pointless and very costly exercise, which will only satisfy the modern need for thinking that legislation is a panacea for all ills and would be an absolute bonanza for vets and the vast admin system needed to cope with it.
And before you ask, yes I am a dog owner, and yes I voluntarily microchip all my dogs.
If you must bring in rules regarding out of control dogs, then target the owners, not meaningless laws regarding certain ill-defined breeds (most of which are vague cross-breeds in any case). It is ALREADY an offence to be responsible for a dogs that is behaving dangerously under the current DDA - stiffer and more permanent penalties for owners are what are in order if anything.
No one is saying get rid of anything. Cats and guinea pigs generally aren't let loose in public areas along with children. At what size should dogs be leashed then, or is it only chihuahuas that should be excepted? A chihuahua is also capable of running up to a guide dog and attacking it. It might not do much damage but it will distract and annoy the dog, and it would be detrimental to the person that dog is guiding. There really is no sensible argument against the standard use of leads in public places.
People can inform about a dog that is scaring their kids, regularly off the lead making visits to parks or common areas difficult at present and nothing is done because the dog hasn't yet attacked a person or is difficult to identify. I don't think licencing would stop dog attacks but it probably would make them less likely if in tandem people could be punished for not doing those things before the dog is totally out of control. It should also be combined with stronger rules about nuisance dogs, those off their lead, left to run around etc. and a record would be kept of irresponsible dog owners that would build up so it would be easier judge when there is a pattern of bad ownership. This would also make punishment easier when there are serious attacks as there would be a record to show the owner was irresponsible.
There are stray cats in parks but I haven't heard of any cases of them attacking guide dogs or children, generally they run away and hide. I don't think pigeons are going to start playing or fighting with guard dogs. I don't know why you are bringing cats, guinea pigs and birds into a discussion about dogs, they are totally different animals. If birds attacking guide dogs was a sensible discussion i'm sure there would be a thread about it.
Exactly. Microchipping will have no impact on dog attacks and I'm at a loss as to why organisations like Dogs Trust and the RSPCA are championing it. It will though, as you say, be a nice little earner for vets and pet register companies. And before anyone asks, we have 2 dogs and 3 cats, all of whom are microchipped in case they lost or stolen.
Not to mention that if a chihuahua ran up to a large dog and started biting it, the big dog may retaliate and would probably get the blame, especially if it was a 'staffy type'.
The partially sighted owner was mortified at what he had done. People started telling her. I felt really sorry for her.
A kind lady customer helped her pick them up wih a doggy bag and the bank staff put a wet floor sign up and they quickly came to mop the floor clean.
Naughty doggy
And by 'licence', I mean proper licensing, with stiff penalties for transgressors.
(As opposed to the old 37½p 'token' licence)
I'd go so far as to say 'almost always'
Agree - Even though my dog is the softest of attention-tarts, with people AND other dogs - he never gets completely loose, except in out of the way places when there's no-one around - and even then, I'm constantly on the lookout.
I know he'd never instigate any violence, but I also realise that many people would rather not have someone else's dog slobbering all over them.
here we go again
what does it take to get through to some people
all dogs can be dangerous, there are no exceptions (except dead ones)
There really are some sick and twisted people out there.