You sound really lovely, a friendly, genuine gentlemen. I think any woman would be incredibly lucky to have you, and I believe most would (and probably are) smitten with you.
I relate a lot to the using thinking patterns as a sort of "Comfort" - I've not managed to get my past my own "Unhelpful" thinking patterns to be able to provide any advice. Only that I understand that it's harder, than most people realise, to break down those mental barriers once they have been built.
I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice to add.
But I wish you all the best of luck.
I believe you are special. I don't care how weird this might sound; but your posts here have touched me and it breaks my heart that you are in so much pain.
I might be a stranger, but I am sending you all my love.
Take care of yourself.
Thomas, all Nikki says about you sounds just right. And it is heartbreaking to hear of someone like yourself in such distress, and all probably - I'm guessing - because of how you were made to feel bad about yourself due to bullies or abusers when you were, (as is natural for everyone at that age), a vulnerable, *impressionable* child. For that is the usual, tragic story, and I've heard it time and time again. I don't think you are unique - far from it - to go into your shell at 13, 14. They're very difficult ages for something bad to happen to affect your self esteem, because you're becoming self aware and coping with new hormones at that age.
Good points about you: you come across as sensitive and articulate - and I think those are very, very popular qualities with women, particularly good-hearted, honest and intelligent women.
Thomas, the simple rule of life is that no one gives you anything, unless you look for it.
A ready made girlfriend is not going to walk though the door or fall into your life.
It's possibly one of the hardest things you learn in life. But there is a upside. No one will also stop you doing the things you want if you want to do something.
There's help and support along the way, but you've got to be the one to make changes. Thats tough I know, but it's true.
I believe you are special. I don't care how weird this might sound; but your posts here have touched me and it breaks my heart that you are in so much pain.
I might be a stranger, but I am sending you all my love.
Take care of yourself.
Thomas, i wonder if it might help you if you changed the way you thought about making friends/being social.
From your posts, you seem to be in the mindset that it's a genetic ability to be able to make friends and that you simply weren't born with the skill. But what if you look at it like any other skill. You weren't born with the ability to read, write etc but you learned them. Making friends is just as much a set of skills, rules and habits that you can learn.
First skill you have to learn is to stop projecting your feelings about yourself onto others. If people are not making eye contact, you have NO WAY of knowing it's because they are thinking you are too uncool for them to speak with, or they are embarrassed to talk to you. That's YOU deciding what they think. They could be as shy and nervous as you for exactly the same reasons.
I do think online might be a good place for you to start making friends as you can only go by a person's words and can't analyse their bodylanguage or whatever.
Why don't you start by setting up a facebook page? A few people from here have said they will friend you so you already have a start. Then all you have to do is post on it regularly - things you've seen that you think are funny, opinions on news stories, what you're watching on TV etc. And maybe start playing some of the games on facebook. People love to friend people who play the same game as them and even if it's just doing the things that come with a game, you are interacting with people more.
Can somebody confirm the online polls I have seen suggesting 60% of women do not like inexperianced/virgin men??, especially over the age of 30?
No I wouldn't agree with this my Mam's husband was 25 when they met and he had never had a girlfriend. I don't think it's an issue personally as you learn together...a few decades ago there was no sex before marriage and people got on just fine. Don't panic about what a few random wonen who have been polled think it's like the rubbish they print in newspapers and mags; NOT REAL LIFE :-)
Lots of the advice here is really good, and impressively well meant. Pursue interests (or make some up if you haven't any to hand) by joining classes/clubs and you will meet people. Maybe not immediately a potential girlfriend but you will begin to put yourself in a place where you will, more than likely, eventually meet a potential girlfriend, though nothing is guaranteed. Maybe pick something that gives you a chance to discuss the thing itself with the group/class, so no need to fish around for a topic of conversation.
I'm aware nothing is guarenteed and its the rejection of "yeah you see I'm right I knew no one likes me" that I fear. I REALLY do believe that I am destined for this and that nobody likes me, if I was 20/21 I would probably believe you, but the older I get, the less convinced I am that things can be turned around. But I have got try (and probably fail ) but I've got try anyway you're right.
I would agree with what Maryjh has said immediately above me and you do come across as intelligent and likeable and if we lived in the same town as you, we'd all probably be saying come on down and say hello in person at this cafe or this pub.
You probably wouldn't, nobody has done in my life well since I've been adult, I come across as lot less shy on the internet than I do in real life, where I stutter, have sweaty palms, speak like an idiot, look like an idiot etc.
Nobody bothered with me at work and I knew they probably thought I was socially awkward and weird. Oh well.
You mentioned that your brother is like you (apart from that it does not upset him). Do you get on well with him? Could you not go out and try to meet people together? Surely it would be much easier for both of you this way, and you wouldn't feel so nervous?
I'm convinced he's more a freak than me. He didn't attend school between 13-20, therefore had no social contact AT ALL had to have home tutoring, failed wasn't interested, then woke up at 20 one day and I said "i've got to change"
So he went back to college, very motivated, and is now a 2nd year student studying civil engineering.
But his social skills are very poor. I was in conversation on a plane with my brothers workmates (who was a mature student at 37).
He said to me "I don't mean to be rude, but is your brother is autistic?"
I said no and he said "Its just that...its just that...."
I filled in and said "Socially awkward??" and replied "Yeah thats it!"
He told me, that people think he comes across as "strange" and is concerned that he doesn't make any friends his age. He told me that my brother comes across as a bit scruffy, dandruff in his hair :yawn: so I told him to scrub up a bit.
But he then told me I was "suprisingly normal" and nothing like him which he was interested to find out if I was. So maybe my brother didn't attend much school badly affected his social development and his only catching up now.
It still bothers me though, that many people in my university class were whispering about me potentially that I was also weird, a freak of nature, and its that perception I have that depresses me and drives occasionally suicidal. But I am getting counselling now for the first time to deal with this so hopefully some changes in future.
I believe most would (and probably are) smitten with you.
Well thank you for the post, but I am sorry to inform you that they are not, my past history of never having a girlfriend/no friends ever by 26 proves otherwise.
Good points about you: you come across as sensitive and articulate - and I think those are very, very popular qualities with women, particularly good-hearted, honest and intelligent women.
Yeah but utterly boring.
I don't go out, I'm not fun, I'm too boring. Nice but dull as a dishwater.
There's help and support along the way, but you've got to be the one to make changes. Thats tough I know, but it's true.
Changes as if in get lots of counselling/therapy, or is counselling just a comfort chat do you think and in reality I have to make the effort myself to feel better about myself. Because the anti-depressants aren't working currently.
Well thank you for the post, but I am sorry to inform you that they are not, my past history of never having a girlfriend/no friends ever by 26 proves otherwise.
Well, if someone does like you (which I think they do, and nothing you type can change from me thinking that), they are not going to tell you because you have already mentally closed yourself to that possibility, which means that those interested in you will be afraid to approach you because you seem disinterested. Then with their own anxieties, they will think you want nothing to do with them - and won't approach because of their fear of rejection from you.
Nikki, from your other thread, sounds like you need a decent bloke and Thomas is in need of a good woman...so......
hahahahah...
Thomas, I'd like to echo Nikki's last post: you're not the only one afraid of rejection in this world. I do the same thing; I think people won't like me so I come across to them as reserved and disinterested and socially awkward: it's a defense mechanism to protect myself. If I never let them in then I can't get rejected. If I come across as reserved and not in need of companionship and try for an air of "Clint Eastwood" cool, then they won't look down on me. But all this does is show that I am inaccessible. Flowers don't communicate to each other or the world when they are all closed up (okay, bad analogy, but hopefully you get my point). I remember in high school kids would try to get me to open up. I really wanted to, but I was too convinced they wouldn't like me or they would look down on me and I just didn't know how to. I was too afraid I wasn't cool enough, intelligent enough or mature enough. I felt there was something fundamentally wrong with me. This has been my main battle ever since I was 14.
One of the reasons I find this thread and your posts moving is because it helps me break this "spell" that I've been fighting all my life since adolescence of thinking this way--the wrongful thoughts that I have let rule my life for so long--that I am inferior and unlikable; that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. It helps me realize that it's my perception of myself and my perception of myself alone that is holding me back and keeping me isolated from other people; that I seize hold of the negative things people have said to me and blow them up way out of proportion and then ignore the nice things people say and write them off as "just being nice"; my thought process being: their being nice couldn't be genuine because people can't genuinely like someone who has something wrong with them. It helps me realize that there isn't anything wrong with me; that I don't need to constantly put up this wall between me and other people--this distance, because I see how likable you are; how normal you are, and yet how you totally, eroneously think you are a freak, which is just absolutely and completely rubbish, and how you absolutely do not need to feel that you are unlikable, or that there is anything wrong with you. I suppose you could say it all boils down to, if I may be so bold: we are our worst enemies. if you know what I mean.
I'll try not to speak for you, but I can say for myself that as a dealing mechanism to internalizing things kids said to me that made me feel like there was something wrong with me I became overly sensitive to criticism and rejection, reading it all as evidence that there was something wrong with me, not able to see that everyone gets criticized; everyone gets told that they messed up or that they're stupid. The logical thought process for me was to bounce back all that perceived criticism and judgment against me (that wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was)--to bounce it back at the world by becoming a very judgmental and criticizing person. Being a judgmental person is a great way to deal with one's insecurities... and to end up all alone and miserable (just ask Holden Caulfield).
By thinking there is something wrong with me
I hold myself to this ridiculously high standard of what normal is; then I hold everyone else to the same standard, then I harshly judge myself for not living up to it, and then I judge everyone else for not living up to it--so I'm constantly beating myself up all the time and everyone else, too , sinking my self esteem and widening a gulf between me and the rest of the world. I'm not like this so much anymore, but this was one way that I expressed my extreme insecurities of feeling there was something wrong with me. I've actually been able to use alcohol in a "therapeutic" way because it shuts down the highly analytical part of my brain (but that's for another post if you want to hear about it).
Thanks to you, I was just able to articulate all this stuff in a way I have never been able to do until just now.
EDIT: Oh, and here's the real kicker! If a girl I am really attracted to shows interest in me, I then think there must be something wrong with her to like me! I project my crap self-view onto her, and then I lose interest in her. Wow, I forgot about that one. That is pretty messed up. I do the same thing with my guy friends. The ones who are really successful, intelligent, very socially apt, have a lot of class etc. etc. I keep wondering why they are friends with me. I go through all these rationalizations of how they can't possibly see me on the same level and that their friendship must, on some level, be a patronizing one--I just can't see how they can genuinely like me given all my inadequacies and shortcomings. Someone who was once trying to help me said that I need to love myself, but Ive never really understood why or how. But right now I am beginning to see the why. The how.. well, that's a bit harder.
But you've just said you've never had a girlfriend, so how do you deal with this problem considering you're now 32? You said there was a girl that wanted you in your first post. How is that getting along? Did anything blossom from that?
Nikki, from your other thread, sounds like you need a decent bloke and Thomas is in need of a good woman...so......
Awww don't embarress her and yes I will play the role of defeatism which Mollys Chambers just echoed. No girl would ever want me and would run a mile otherwise! I feel I am doing them a favour by having a them avoid me etc.
I am learning accept thought that I am going to be a lifelong bacholar (like about 90% sure) so I guess I need to draw inspiration and learn how life with it for the rest of my life. Its like learning to live with a disability but plenty of people do so I don't see why I can't. I have to see you see because I know its probably going to happen.
You probably wouldn't, nobody has done in my life well since I've been adult, I come across as lot less shy on the internet than I do in real life, where I stutter, have sweaty palms, speak like an idiot, look like an idiot etc.
Yes of course we would! You have told us all about your situation and your problems, so we would not be thinking that you were weird when we met you, we wouldn't have to go by first impressions or anything like that.
I'm a long way away from you in south east england, but if I lived in Northen Ireland I would definitely offer to meet up with you sometime, (if you wanted to that is), because I'm quite an awkward shy person as well, not quite so much now (I'm 33), but certainly when I was your age I was, and I don't judge people for being shy and awkward, because I absolutely get why they are like it.
Right. I haven't read the whole thread, but here's what I think.
OP, I also live in Northern Ireland and work in Belfast. You say you walk around the city and see happy people holding hands, and think that people see you as a freak. Well, I walk through the city centre every day. I've never thought "Gosh he's a weird looking fella" about anyone. And I've probably seen you at some point.
Actually, when I look around me I see completely different things to you. I see stressed out looking people in suits, who have probably had a hard day at work. Grumpy teenagers in tracksuits who should be at school. Regular people, neither attractive nor ugly, going about their day, trying to get through things as best as they can. There's only a very small minority of good looking, loved up couples who don't seem to have a care in the world. And chances are they have their problems too, but you won't know that just by looking at them.
Yes, some poeple are more confident and sociable than others, but even they have insecurities and doubt themselves some times. Everyone wants to be accepted and most of the time people are too wrapped up in their own lives and problems to notice what other people are up to. Unless you look and act truly outlandish, then I promise you people aren't looking at you thinking you're a freak, or that you shouldn't be out in society. It's all in your head.
Because you've convinced yourself that you're this unacceptable human being, you're probably coming across as negative and needy. People don't like that and maybe thats why you struggle to make friends. But chances are it's not your true personality that's the problem, it's just that negative pattern of thinking. Once you break that, then people will start to warm to you.
It's normal to be a misfit as a teenager. I had an unhappy family life and as a result I was quite withdrawn and insecure at school. Like you, I was convinced that I was ugly, that people were judging me negatively and that if I tried to talk to anyone outside of my friendship group, they'd see me as an unwelcome intrusion. It was a self-fulfilling profecy, and as a result I only had a small group of friends and the rest of the year saw me as a bit of a nerd.
Then when I left school I was determined to change things. I went to uni in England, so I had a fresh start. I was still insecure, but made myself act confident and positive. I took part in clubs and societies that I wouldn't notmally have considered, and talked to people that I never thought would be my type of friends. To my surprise, people warmed to me straight away. I was still the same person, with the same looks and the same personality. The only thing that was different was my attitude. In time, I realised I wasn't even faking it anymore, I really had become a confident person.
The strange thing is that now people tell me how well they think I'm doing. In their minds I'm successful in my studies and job, social life and relationships. I'm genuinely surprised, because even though I'm more confident than before, and reasonably happy, I still look at other people ad think they have it better. I worry that my degree isn't from a top uni, I try to get through each day at work as best as I can without messing up, I question whether I can ever secure a permanent job and one day buy my own house, I worry that I'm not going out as much as other people, and I have relationship troubles just like other people. Sometimes I'm even paranoid that people I meet will somehow be able to tell that I was an awkward, skinny kid from a broken home, instead of someone from a wholesome, 2 parents 2.5 kids happy family. Of course I realise that's crazy thinking and make myself stop it.
I guess what I'm trying to make you realise is that everyone, no matter how happy they seem, has moments when they feel inadequate. And most people aren't unforgiving, hard-hearted things that are going to scrutinise you and think that you're not fit to be in society. Most likely they are interested in getting to know you, but you're coming across as unapproachable, because you've convinced yourself that you're unloveable and you've created barriers.
I'm not a doctor, or a psychologist, but I disagree with the idea that medicine and counselling are automatically the best way forward. The problem with counselling is that it encourages you to be too introspective and over-analyse things. What you need to do is get out there and take small, but positive steps towards building your life. Chat to people- people you may never see again, like the cashier at a shop. Develop your interests, and maybe consider joining a club or society. Take an interest in others, and don't think too much about how you're coming across. Keep busy and don't dwell too much on your feelings. Sometimes you can go round and round in circles and your mind makes a mountain out of a molehill. Aim to achieve something every day, no matter how small.
You'll see that things will start to change for you. Forget about girlfriends or sex for now. Concentrate on creating a better life for yourself and raising your self-esteem, your love life will fall into place eventually. Otherwise you'll be putting an unfair burden on someone- no one wants to be the only source of someone else's happiness, people want positive partners who will contribute something to a relationship. Don't worry about being a virgin, you don't even have to tell a girl that. Just say you've had relationships in the past, but nothing too serious. Sex isn't rocket science, it will just happen natrally if you relax a bit.
So yeah, I hope I've been helpful in some way, sorry for the long essay!
EDIT: Oh, and here's the real kicker! If a girl I am really attracted to shows interest in me, I then think there must be something wrong with her to like me! I project my crap self-view onto her, and then I lose interest in her. Wow, I forgot about that one. That is pretty messed up. I do the same thing with my guy friends. The ones who are really successful, intelligent, very socially apt, have a lot of class etc. etc. I keep wondering why they are friends with me. I go through all these rationalizations of how they can't possibly see me on the same level and that their friendship must, on some level, be a patronizing one--I just can't see how they can genuinely like me given all my inadequacies and shortcomings. Someone who was once trying to help me said that I need to love myself, but Ive never really understood why or how. But right now I am beginning to see the why. The how.. well, that's a bit harder.
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OMG, I used to be exactly the same way with guys! I was always falling for guys who didn't want me back, for one reason on another. If a guy WAS interested in me, then I told myself there must be something wrong with them, so I didn't want them.
It's totally crazy and irrational. I've changed that way of thinking now. I hope you can too! I think the "how" can be achieved by doing some thinking and pinpointing exaclty why you feel that way.
I know it's a huge cliche, but I think for me my lack of stability at home and lack of a good male figure made me insecure. I'd look at other kids and think "Why can't I have a family like yours!" I could see that my mum was desperately unhappy with my dad and I had this childish image in my head of what life would be like if she had married another person (usually one of my friends' dads, who were perfect in my mind).
Then throughout my adult life I've carrried this idea of a perfect man, and projected it onto men I've met. If they wanted to be with me, then they couldn't possibly be the ideal man, because the ideal man was always part of someone else's life. There must be something wrong with them, maybe other women didn't want them.
Then one day the "ideal" man materialised, and surprise, he wanted to be with me! It didn't work out in the end, and I realised he wasn't ideal after all (no one is!). But it did wonders for my confidence.
I've never returned to my old way of thinking. I hope you can get there as well!
But you've just said you've never had a girlfriend, so how do you deal with this problem considering you're now 32? You said there was a girl that wanted you in your first post. How is that getting along? Did anything blossom from that?
From as early as I can remember getting a girlfriend was always a pipedream, meaning that expecting to get a girlfriend was sort of on the lines of expecting to be a millionaire or winning the lottery. It was for other people, but not for me. I think that ties in to the whole inferiority complex thing that I've had for as long as I can remember. It's kinda strange to say this, but I'm not even entirely sure I want a girlfriend. I mean I mostly do, but I guess I feel like it's all so much a hassle, and the freedom of being single fits my personality so well. I only want a girlfriend if I am going to be crazy about her. The idea of getting a girlfriend to solve the problem of never having had a girlfriend and to lose my virginity is terribly unappealing. So I am not all bent out of shape and miserable because I've never had a girlfriend. More like I'm embarrassed and think it's a reason for being looked down on. All the opportunities I've had to have a girlfriend or a fling I've turned down. Mostly because I didn't feel the fireworks for the girls the way I wanted to, either because I didn't think they were attractive enough or because "I project my crap self-view onto her, and then I lose interest in her." Or maybe I was just afraid. I don't think that's the complete story, though, there are probably other reasons as well. I should really see a therapist to try to get to the bottom of it, but I can't be bothered. I went to therapy when I was 18 because I felt like "I wasn't going to make it." I didn't find it terribly helpful, but I think that was more because of my mental and emotional state than anything else, although going to therapy only reinforced the feelings I had that there was something wrong with me (I have to go to therapy because there's something wrong with me). So that's pretty much the reason I don't want to go to therapy again is because it'll just bring back those feelings that there is something wrong with me. (I know, probably not a good reason to not go).
As for the "girl" that is interested in me... well, she's married! If she wasn't I'd probably at least try to give it a chance.
OMG, I used to be exactly the same way with guys! I was always falling for guys who didn't want me back, for one reason on another. If a guy WAS interested in me, then I told myself there must be something wrong with them, so I didn't want them.
It's totally crazy and irrational. I've changed that way of thinking now. I hope you can too! I think the "how" can be achieved by doing some thinking and pinpointing exaclty why you feel that way.
I know it's a huge cliche, but I think for me my lack of stability at home and lack of a good male figure made me insecure. I'd look at other kids and think "Why can't I have a family like yours!" [snip]
Wow, thanks for sharing Vintage Girl! I will definitely try to work on why I feel that way EDIT and change the pattern. Oddly, I had a pretty perfect childhood. My parents were both awesome, I had lots of friends. Sure, I was teased, but I don't think more than other kids who were easy pickins like me. :P For as long as I can remember I've always just felt somehow inferior to the rest of the world; at different times, varying degrees.
Thomas, about the no one would want to meet up with you thing you said; if we lived in the same area, I'm sure I'd have offered to meet up with you for a coffee right away, although I wouldn't have expected you to look upon me as a potential friend, (close friend/activity buddy), or, as a potential girlfriend, as I'm old enough to respectably be your mother! And if you were moody, I'd have understood!
Without meaning to be discouraging - quite the opposite - I think it's important to say that there *are* others out there socially who pre-judge and shun others, put them down or/and turn their backs on them, due to various predjudices such as racism, classism, and ignorant antagonisms against the poor, people with mental health issues, people with different to the norm lifestyles or dress, with disabilities, on benefits, etc.
I've had my fair share of put downs and rejections due to being poor and ill, and, (in the not too distant past), on benefits, and it's not imagination - it does exist. But the thing is, you've not got to take on other people's negative opinions of you as the truth, or think everyone in the world thinks the same as them. If you know you're doing the best you can, that's all that matters. In my experience, prejudiced people tend to socialise with others who share their prejudices, so if you come across a social group of people who are putting you down and freezing you out due to something about you that they actually mention - that they actually mention, so you know it's true for sure, and not just an idea in your head - just move on to a different social group of people.
I'm aware nothing is guarenteed and its the rejection of "yeah you see I'm right I knew no one likes me" that I fear. I REALLY do believe that I am destined for this and that nobody likes me, if I was 20/21 I would probably believe you, but the older I get, the less convinced I am that things can be turned around. But I have got try (and probably fail ) but I've got try anyway you're right.
You probably wouldn't, nobody has done in my life well since I've been adult, I come across as lot less shy on the internet than I do in real life, where I stutter, have sweaty palms, speak like an idiot, look like an idiot etc.
Nobody bothered with me at work and I knew they probably thought I was socially awkward and weird. Oh well.
I'm convinced he's more a freak than me. He didn't attend school between 13-20, therefore had no social contact AT ALL had to have home tutoring, failed wasn't interested, then woke up at 20 one day and I said "i've got to change"
So he went back to college, very motivated, and is now a 2nd year student studying civil engineering.
But his social skills are very poor. I was in conversation on a plane with my brothers workmates (who was a mature student at 37).
He said to me "I don't mean to be rude, but is your brother is autistic?"
I said no and he said "Its just that...its just that...."
I filled in and said "Socially awkward??" and replied "Yeah thats it!"
He told me, that people think he comes across as "strange" and is concerned that he doesn't make any friends his age. He told me that my brother comes across as a bit scruffy, dandruff in his hair :yawn: so I told him to scrub up a bit.
But he then told me I was "suprisingly normal" and nothing like him which he was interested to find out if I was. So maybe my brother didn't attend much school badly affected his social development and his only catching up now.
It still bothers me though, that many people in my university class were whispering about me potentially that I was also weird, a freak of nature, and its that perception I have that depresses me and drives occasionally suicidal. But I am getting counselling now for the first time to deal with this so hopefully some changes in future.
Well thank you for the post, but I am sorry to inform you that they are not, my past history of never having a girlfriend/no friends ever by 26 proves otherwise.
Yeah but utterly boring.
I don't go out, I'm not fun, I'm too boring. Nice but dull as a dishwater.
Me too. I don't want to considering suicide or anything as result of ending the sheer pain. Its not fair that I've considered this all my adult life.
Changes as if in get lots of counselling/therapy, or is counselling just a comfort chat do you think and in reality I have to make the effort myself to feel better about myself. Because the anti-depressants aren't working currently.
But you've just said you've never had a girlfriend, so how do you deal with this problem considering you're now 32? You said there was a girl that wanted you in your first post. How is that getting along? Did anything blossom from that?
Awww don't embarress her and yes I will play the role of defeatism which Mollys Chambers just echoed. No girl would ever want me and would run a mile otherwise! I feel I am doing them a favour by having a them avoid me etc.
I am learning accept thought that I am going to be a lifelong bacholar (like about 90% sure) so I guess I need to draw inspiration and learn how life with it for the rest of my life. Its like learning to live with a disability but plenty of people do so I don't see why I can't. I have to see you see because I know its probably going to happen.
Thomas, you have been through some tragic experiences of rejection, it has affected you deeply and I am sorry for that. However, you also deserve great credit for getting a college education, visiting these other countries and for openly posting your issues in this forum so please don't do yourself down.
Indeed, please take some comfort from all the expressions of support and advice that you are getting and that fact that many of us would actually go out of our way to say "Hello, come and join us, Thomas" if you lived near us physically.
That combination of medication and therapy has the potential to turn things around for you so that you can have a better future, start to socialise more easily and make friends. In the case of the antidepressant medication, it can take two weeks plus for it to take effect and I would suggest allowing that time to elapse at the current, higher dose prescription.
However, if after that time you still find that you are getting no benefit or if you get deeply upset in the meantime then I would suggest going back to whoever issued the initial prescription and ask to be put on another antidepressant because there are effective alternatives out there such as Amitriptyline, Prozac and Dothiepin.
I'm not sure what approaches your counsellors are taking but I hope that one of them will be using a cognitive behavioural therapy approach which will help you address and reform the current thought patterns that are not serving you well and I would suggest mentioning that to them.
In addition, I'd suggest asking them if there are additional steps that you can take at home when you're not at an appointment such as Moodgym, that book you've got and any other things that they recommend.
To your credit, you've recognised the need to get professional help and please don't despair because you're young, you've got your whole life ahead of you and, if you allow time for the counselling sessions and medication to take their effect, it could be a significantly brighter future for you.
I have my second psycologist appointment in Strabane on the 2nd of July and my 8th counselling appointment in Belfast the day after. I'm everwhere at the moment.
I realise regarding the girlfriend/friend issue I just relax about it and take my time, I don't turn 26 till the 4th of august and 4 years before I turn 30. I'm embarresed about my situation, and obviously worried about all the crap that plenty of fish say about virgins over 30 (i.e. that 60% wont date them etc).
But like I say, no point beating myself up about it, just don't panic and take my time and if I work at it, it might be done. I'm having counselling for first time in my life, I'm reading up on cognetive therapy behaviour for the first time. So for the first time ever I'm in the process of actually trying to do something about it.
I know bitching about it on the internet isn't going to do any good so for the past few weeks I've been letting off steam and crying my eyes out, but I've calmed down now and starting think postively long term how this can be tackled. Surely its better than thinking about suicide all the time??
Its still 4 years and a month before I turn 30, so it is plenty of time for therapy and socialising to improve by then (if I work at it - which I will).
I'm just keep thinking to myself I can't be that bad surely??
So as I say just thinking postively about myself and looking to see what the 'small steps' are that I can take.
Thanks for all the support guys, the fight starts here!! Lets get off my arse and do something!! Bring it on!!
You go on about plenty of fish polls but I really would ignore them. You know what online polls are like, just look at the ones yappy creates, plenty of people don't answer them seriously and agree with whatever daft theory she has
Well I'm embarresed about obviously being a virgin at 25/26 so when I read dating websites I get scared as if the writings on the wall, it doesn't take much to dent myself confidence. I'm the sort of person they would slag off on there, so I'm almost frightened.
But I realise I've got to try and get out of this, look I'm 25, I don't turn 30 for another 4 years and a month. And if I keep working at it going to counselling, trying social events, I may not even get a girlfriend till I am say 35 that late, but thats still 10 years away. If I work at it now, I'm know I'm still young enough to break this. I have time on my side, just got fight it from now on and stay positive and it can change!
I have my second psycologist appointment in Strabane on the 2nd of July and my 8th counselling appointment in Belfast the day after. I'm everwhere at the moment.
I realise regarding the girlfriend/friend issue I just relax about it and take my time, I don't turn 26 till the 4th of august and 4 years before I turn 30. I'm embarresed about my situation, and obviously worried about all the crap that plenty of fish say about virgins over 30 (i.e. that 60% wont date them etc).
But like I say, no point beating myself up about it, just don't panic and take my time and if I work at it, it might be done. I'm having counselling for first time in my life, I'm reading up on cognetive therapy behaviour for the first time. So for the first time ever I'm in the process of actually trying to do something about it.
I know bitching about it on the internet isn't going to do any good so for the past few weeks I've been letting off steam and crying my eyes out, but I've calmed down now and starting think postively long term how this can be tackled. Surely its better than thinking about suicide all the time??
Its still 4 years and a month before I turn 30, so it is plenty of time for therapy and socialising to improve by then (if I work at it - which I will).
I'm just keep thinking to myself I can't be that bad surely??
So as I say just thinking postively about myself and looking to see what the 'small steps' are that I can take.
Thanks for all the support guys, the fight starts here!! Lets get off my arse and do something!! Bring it on!!
Well I'm embarresed about obviously being a virgin at 25/26 so when I read dating websites I get scared as if the writings on the wall, it doesn't take much to dent myself confidence. I'm the sort of person they would slag off on there, so I'm almost frightened.
Someone I know very well didn't lose theirs until 28 so you've got plenty of time
I wish you luck though, as you seem to have a clear plan on how to turn your life around. I hope it works for you.
I wish you luck though, as you seem to have a clear plan on how to turn your life around. I hope it works for you.
Yes but understand though thats it going to be a lot of hard work, I'm still going to have a lot of depressing nights over the next 6 months or so probably.
But as long as I try and make progress, who knows. All I know is that I've only had counselling for 2 months for the first time in my life, anti depressants for 6 weeks. If I can work at this hard for 4+ years, who knows I might be a different person (hopefully I will be!).
Re the virginity. I have considered losing my virginity to an escort over the next year, not some to any cheap one, but a experianced one (over the age of 35) just learn the ropes of sex and explain it to her.
You have to understand, I am human, I like sex, and sex is an important part of life to most people. I don't really care who I lose it to, its just sex to me, love sex is different from sex with an escort IMO.
I don't want to get addicted to them, but just have the experiance, plus I am horny guy occassionally. I guess most women would be put off by this though? I know a lot of women think its degrading to use escorts, and IMO I agree, but I think I am a special case and it might do me some good tbh. I don't think most women would care if it was way in the past. Russell Brand lost his virginity to an escort ffs.
What do people think? Is that an extreme way of losing your virginity? Or should I just wait? I pretty horny, to not have sex by the time your 26 is a bit annoying sometimes.
Don't write yourself off at 30. There's no race to loose your virginity you know.
Look at crazychris, he keeps telling us how he was a late developer. He didn't get anywhere until he was into his 30s. If he can find himself a wife then so can you.
Even that miserable 5340robert managed to get himself a girlfriend, don't think he was with her for long. You're not even on the same level as he is anyway. You're far nicer.
Comments
You sound really lovely, a friendly, genuine gentlemen. I think any woman would be incredibly lucky to have you, and I believe most would (and probably are) smitten with you.
I relate a lot to the using thinking patterns as a sort of "Comfort" - I've not managed to get my past my own "Unhelpful" thinking patterns to be able to provide any advice. Only that I understand that it's harder, than most people realise, to break down those mental barriers once they have been built.
I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice to add.
But I wish you all the best of luck.
I believe you are special. I don't care how weird this might sound; but your posts here have touched me and it breaks my heart that you are in so much pain.
I might be a stranger, but I am sending you all my love.
Take care of yourself.
Good points about you: you come across as sensitive and articulate - and I think those are very, very popular qualities with women, particularly good-hearted, honest and intelligent women.
I really hope you'll be okay.
A ready made girlfriend is not going to walk though the door or fall into your life.
It's possibly one of the hardest things you learn in life. But there is a upside. No one will also stop you doing the things you want if you want to do something.
There's help and support along the way, but you've got to be the one to make changes. Thats tough I know, but it's true.
Hmmmm... well, it seems there are some people on here who would be happy to be friends with you on facebook.
From your posts, you seem to be in the mindset that it's a genetic ability to be able to make friends and that you simply weren't born with the skill. But what if you look at it like any other skill. You weren't born with the ability to read, write etc but you learned them. Making friends is just as much a set of skills, rules and habits that you can learn.
First skill you have to learn is to stop projecting your feelings about yourself onto others. If people are not making eye contact, you have NO WAY of knowing it's because they are thinking you are too uncool for them to speak with, or they are embarrassed to talk to you. That's YOU deciding what they think. They could be as shy and nervous as you for exactly the same reasons.
I do think online might be a good place for you to start making friends as you can only go by a person's words and can't analyse their bodylanguage or whatever.
Why don't you start by setting up a facebook page? A few people from here have said they will friend you so you already have a start. Then all you have to do is post on it regularly - things you've seen that you think are funny, opinions on news stories, what you're watching on TV etc. And maybe start playing some of the games on facebook. People love to friend people who play the same game as them and even if it's just doing the things that come with a game, you are interacting with people more.
No I wouldn't agree with this my Mam's husband was 25 when they met and he had never had a girlfriend. I don't think it's an issue personally as you learn together...a few decades ago there was no sex before marriage and people got on just fine. Don't panic about what a few random wonen who have been polled think it's like the rubbish they print in newspapers and mags; NOT REAL LIFE :-)
I'm aware nothing is guarenteed and its the rejection of "yeah you see I'm right I knew no one likes me" that I fear. I REALLY do believe that I am destined for this and that nobody likes me, if I was 20/21 I would probably believe you, but the older I get, the less convinced I am that things can be turned around. But I have got try (and probably fail
You probably wouldn't, nobody has done in my life well since I've been adult, I come across as lot less shy on the internet than I do in real life, where I stutter, have sweaty palms, speak like an idiot, look like an idiot etc.
Nobody bothered with me at work and I knew they probably thought I was socially awkward and weird. Oh well.
I'm convinced he's more a freak than me. He didn't attend school between 13-20, therefore had no social contact AT ALL had to have home tutoring, failed wasn't interested, then woke up at 20 one day and I said "i've got to change"
So he went back to college, very motivated, and is now a 2nd year student studying civil engineering.
But his social skills are very poor. I was in conversation on a plane with my brothers workmates (who was a mature student at 37).
He said to me "I don't mean to be rude, but is your brother is autistic?"
I said no and he said "Its just that...its just that...."
I filled in and said "Socially awkward??" and replied "Yeah thats it!"
He told me, that people think he comes across as "strange" and is concerned that he doesn't make any friends his age. He told me that my brother comes across as a bit scruffy, dandruff in his hair :yawn: so I told him to scrub up a bit.
But he then told me I was "suprisingly normal" and nothing like him which he was interested to find out if I was. So maybe my brother didn't attend much school badly affected his social development and his only catching up now.
It still bothers me though, that many people in my university class were whispering about me potentially that I was also weird, a freak of nature, and its that perception I have that depresses me and drives occasionally suicidal. But I am getting counselling now for the first time to deal with this so hopefully some changes in future.
Well thank you for the post, but I am sorry to inform you that they are not, my past history of never having a girlfriend/no friends ever by 26 proves otherwise.
Yeah but utterly boring.
I don't go out, I'm not fun, I'm too boring. Nice but dull as a dishwater.
Me too. I don't want to considering suicide or anything as result of ending the sheer pain. Its not fair that I've considered this all my adult life.
Changes as if in get lots of counselling/therapy, or is counselling just a comfort chat do you think and in reality I have to make the effort myself to feel better about myself. Because the anti-depressants aren't working currently.
Well, if someone does like you (which I think they do, and nothing you type can change from me thinking that), they are not going to tell you because you have already mentally closed yourself to that possibility, which means that those interested in you will be afraid to approach you because you seem disinterested. Then with their own anxieties, they will think you want nothing to do with them - and won't approach because of their fear of rejection from you.
hahahahah...
Thomas, I'd like to echo Nikki's last post: you're not the only one afraid of rejection in this world. I do the same thing; I think people won't like me so I come across to them as reserved and disinterested and socially awkward: it's a defense mechanism to protect myself. If I never let them in then I can't get rejected. If I come across as reserved and not in need of companionship and try for an air of "Clint Eastwood" cool, then they won't look down on me. But all this does is show that I am inaccessible. Flowers don't communicate to each other or the world when they are all closed up (okay, bad analogy, but hopefully you get my point). I remember in high school kids would try to get me to open up. I really wanted to, but I was too convinced they wouldn't like me or they would look down on me and I just didn't know how to. I was too afraid I wasn't cool enough, intelligent enough or mature enough. I felt there was something fundamentally wrong with me. This has been my main battle ever since I was 14.
One of the reasons I find this thread and your posts moving is because it helps me break this "spell" that I've been fighting all my life since adolescence of thinking this way--the wrongful thoughts that I have let rule my life for so long--that I am inferior and unlikable; that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. It helps me realize that it's my perception of myself and my perception of myself alone that is holding me back and keeping me isolated from other people; that I seize hold of the negative things people have said to me and blow them up way out of proportion and then ignore the nice things people say and write them off as "just being nice"; my thought process being: their being nice couldn't be genuine because people can't genuinely like someone who has something wrong with them. It helps me realize that there isn't anything wrong with me; that I don't need to constantly put up this wall between me and other people--this distance, because I see how likable you are; how normal you are, and yet how you totally, eroneously think you are a freak, which is just absolutely and completely rubbish, and how you absolutely do not need to feel that you are unlikable, or that there is anything wrong with you. I suppose you could say it all boils down to, if I may be so bold: we are our worst enemies.
I'll try not to speak for you, but I can say for myself that as a dealing mechanism to internalizing things kids said to me that made me feel like there was something wrong with me I became overly sensitive to criticism and rejection, reading it all as evidence that there was something wrong with me, not able to see that everyone gets criticized; everyone gets told that they messed up or that they're stupid. The logical thought process for me was to bounce back all that perceived criticism and judgment against me (that wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was)--to bounce it back at the world by becoming a very judgmental and criticizing person. Being a judgmental person is a great way to deal with one's insecurities... and to end up all alone and miserable (just ask Holden Caulfield).
By thinking there is something wrong with me
I hold myself to this ridiculously high standard of what normal is; then I hold everyone else to the same standard, then I harshly judge myself for not living up to it, and then I judge everyone else for not living up to it--so I'm constantly beating myself up all the time and everyone else, too
Thanks to you, I was just able to articulate all this stuff in a way I have never been able to do until just now.
EDIT: Oh, and here's the real kicker! If a girl I am really attracted to shows interest in me, I then think there must be something wrong with her to like me! I project my crap self-view onto her, and then I lose interest in her. Wow, I forgot about that one. That is pretty messed up. I do the same thing with my guy friends. The ones who are really successful, intelligent, very socially apt, have a lot of class etc. etc. I keep wondering why they are friends with me. I go through all these rationalizations of how they can't possibly see me on the same level and that their friendship must, on some level, be a patronizing one--I just can't see how they can genuinely like me given all my inadequacies and shortcomings. Someone who was once trying to help me said that I need to love myself, but Ive never really understood why or how. But right now I am beginning to see the why. The how.. well, that's a bit harder.
But you've just said you've never had a girlfriend, so how do you deal with this problem considering you're now 32? You said there was a girl that wanted you in your first post. How is that getting along? Did anything blossom from that?
Awww don't embarress her
I am learning accept thought that I am going to be a lifelong bacholar (like about 90% sure) so I guess I need to draw inspiration and learn how life with it for the rest of my life. Its like learning to live with a disability but plenty of people do so I don't see why I can't. I have to see you see because I know its probably going to happen.
Yes of course we would! You have told us all about your situation and your problems, so we would not be thinking that you were weird when we met you, we wouldn't have to go by first impressions or anything like that.
I'm a long way away from you in south east england, but if I lived in Northen Ireland I would definitely offer to meet up with you sometime, (if you wanted to that is), because I'm quite an awkward shy person as well, not quite so much now (I'm 33), but certainly when I was your age I was, and I don't judge people for being shy and awkward, because I absolutely get why they are like it.
OP, I also live in Northern Ireland and work in Belfast. You say you walk around the city and see happy people holding hands, and think that people see you as a freak. Well, I walk through the city centre every day. I've never thought "Gosh he's a weird looking fella" about anyone. And I've probably seen you at some point.
Actually, when I look around me I see completely different things to you. I see stressed out looking people in suits, who have probably had a hard day at work. Grumpy teenagers in tracksuits who should be at school. Regular people, neither attractive nor ugly, going about their day, trying to get through things as best as they can. There's only a very small minority of good looking, loved up couples who don't seem to have a care in the world. And chances are they have their problems too, but you won't know that just by looking at them.
Yes, some poeple are more confident and sociable than others, but even they have insecurities and doubt themselves some times. Everyone wants to be accepted and most of the time people are too wrapped up in their own lives and problems to notice what other people are up to. Unless you look and act truly outlandish, then I promise you people aren't looking at you thinking you're a freak, or that you shouldn't be out in society. It's all in your head.
Because you've convinced yourself that you're this unacceptable human being, you're probably coming across as negative and needy. People don't like that and maybe thats why you struggle to make friends. But chances are it's not your true personality that's the problem, it's just that negative pattern of thinking. Once you break that, then people will start to warm to you.
It's normal to be a misfit as a teenager. I had an unhappy family life and as a result I was quite withdrawn and insecure at school. Like you, I was convinced that I was ugly, that people were judging me negatively and that if I tried to talk to anyone outside of my friendship group, they'd see me as an unwelcome intrusion. It was a self-fulfilling profecy, and as a result I only had a small group of friends and the rest of the year saw me as a bit of a nerd.
Then when I left school I was determined to change things. I went to uni in England, so I had a fresh start. I was still insecure, but made myself act confident and positive. I took part in clubs and societies that I wouldn't notmally have considered, and talked to people that I never thought would be my type of friends. To my surprise, people warmed to me straight away. I was still the same person, with the same looks and the same personality. The only thing that was different was my attitude. In time, I realised I wasn't even faking it anymore, I really had become a confident person.
The strange thing is that now people tell me how well they think I'm doing. In their minds I'm successful in my studies and job, social life and relationships. I'm genuinely surprised, because even though I'm more confident than before, and reasonably happy, I still look at other people ad think they have it better. I worry that my degree isn't from a top uni, I try to get through each day at work as best as I can without messing up, I question whether I can ever secure a permanent job and one day buy my own house, I worry that I'm not going out as much as other people, and I have relationship troubles just like other people. Sometimes I'm even paranoid that people I meet will somehow be able to tell that I was an awkward, skinny kid from a broken home, instead of someone from a wholesome, 2 parents 2.5 kids happy family. Of course I realise that's crazy thinking and make myself stop it.
I guess what I'm trying to make you realise is that everyone, no matter how happy they seem, has moments when they feel inadequate. And most people aren't unforgiving, hard-hearted things that are going to scrutinise you and think that you're not fit to be in society. Most likely they are interested in getting to know you, but you're coming across as unapproachable, because you've convinced yourself that you're unloveable and you've created barriers.
I'm not a doctor, or a psychologist, but I disagree with the idea that medicine and counselling are automatically the best way forward. The problem with counselling is that it encourages you to be too introspective and over-analyse things. What you need to do is get out there and take small, but positive steps towards building your life. Chat to people- people you may never see again, like the cashier at a shop. Develop your interests, and maybe consider joining a club or society. Take an interest in others, and don't think too much about how you're coming across. Keep busy and don't dwell too much on your feelings. Sometimes you can go round and round in circles and your mind makes a mountain out of a molehill. Aim to achieve something every day, no matter how small.
You'll see that things will start to change for you. Forget about girlfriends or sex for now. Concentrate on creating a better life for yourself and raising your self-esteem, your love life will fall into place eventually. Otherwise you'll be putting an unfair burden on someone- no one wants to be the only source of someone else's happiness, people want positive partners who will contribute something to a relationship. Don't worry about being a virgin, you don't even have to tell a girl that. Just say you've had relationships in the past, but nothing too serious. Sex isn't rocket science, it will just happen natrally if you relax a bit.
So yeah, I hope I've been helpful in some way, sorry for the long essay!
OMG, I used to be exactly the same way with guys! I was always falling for guys who didn't want me back, for one reason on another. If a guy WAS interested in me, then I told myself there must be something wrong with them, so I didn't want them.
It's totally crazy and irrational. I've changed that way of thinking now. I hope you can too! I think the "how" can be achieved by doing some thinking and pinpointing exaclty why you feel that way.
I know it's a huge cliche, but I think for me my lack of stability at home and lack of a good male figure made me insecure. I'd look at other kids and think "Why can't I have a family like yours!" I could see that my mum was desperately unhappy with my dad and I had this childish image in my head of what life would be like if she had married another person (usually one of my friends' dads, who were perfect in my mind).
Then throughout my adult life I've carrried this idea of a perfect man, and projected it onto men I've met. If they wanted to be with me, then they couldn't possibly be the ideal man, because the ideal man was always part of someone else's life. There must be something wrong with them, maybe other women didn't want them.
Then one day the "ideal" man materialised, and surprise, he wanted to be with me! It didn't work out in the end, and I realised he wasn't ideal after all (no one is!). But it did wonders for my confidence.
I've never returned to my old way of thinking. I hope you can get there as well!
As for the "girl" that is interested in me... well, she's married! If she wasn't I'd probably at least try to give it a chance.
Without meaning to be discouraging - quite the opposite - I think it's important to say that there *are* others out there socially who pre-judge and shun others, put them down or/and turn their backs on them, due to various predjudices such as racism, classism, and ignorant antagonisms against the poor, people with mental health issues, people with different to the norm lifestyles or dress, with disabilities, on benefits, etc.
I've had my fair share of put downs and rejections due to being poor and ill, and, (in the not too distant past), on benefits, and it's not imagination - it does exist. But the thing is, you've not got to take on other people's negative opinions of you as the truth, or think everyone in the world thinks the same as them. If you know you're doing the best you can, that's all that matters. In my experience, prejudiced people tend to socialise with others who share their prejudices, so if you come across a social group of people who are putting you down and freezing you out due to something about you that they actually mention - that they actually mention, so you know it's true for sure, and not just an idea in your head - just move on to a different social group of people.
Thomas, you have been through some tragic experiences of rejection, it has affected you deeply and I am sorry for that. However, you also deserve great credit for getting a college education, visiting these other countries and for openly posting your issues in this forum so please don't do yourself down.
Indeed, please take some comfort from all the expressions of support and advice that you are getting and that fact that many of us would actually go out of our way to say "Hello, come and join us, Thomas" if you lived near us physically.
That combination of medication and therapy has the potential to turn things around for you so that you can have a better future, start to socialise more easily and make friends. In the case of the antidepressant medication, it can take two weeks plus for it to take effect and I would suggest allowing that time to elapse at the current, higher dose prescription.
However, if after that time you still find that you are getting no benefit or if you get deeply upset in the meantime then I would suggest going back to whoever issued the initial prescription and ask to be put on another antidepressant because there are effective alternatives out there such as Amitriptyline, Prozac and Dothiepin.
I'm not sure what approaches your counsellors are taking but I hope that one of them will be using a cognitive behavioural therapy approach which will help you address and reform the current thought patterns that are not serving you well and I would suggest mentioning that to them.
In addition, I'd suggest asking them if there are additional steps that you can take at home when you're not at an appointment such as Moodgym, that book you've got and any other things that they recommend.
To your credit, you've recognised the need to get professional help and please don't despair because you're young, you've got your whole life ahead of you and, if you allow time for the counselling sessions and medication to take their effect, it could be a significantly brighter future for you.
Take care and all the best.
I have my second psycologist appointment in Strabane on the 2nd of July and my 8th counselling appointment in Belfast the day after. I'm everwhere at the moment.
I realise regarding the girlfriend/friend issue I just relax about it and take my time, I don't turn 26 till the 4th of august and 4 years before I turn 30. I'm embarresed about my situation, and obviously worried about all the crap that plenty of fish say about virgins over 30 (i.e. that 60% wont date them etc).
But like I say, no point beating myself up about it, just don't panic and take my time and if I work at it, it might be done. I'm having counselling for first time in my life, I'm reading up on cognetive therapy behaviour for the first time. So for the first time ever I'm in the process of actually trying to do something about it.
I know bitching about it on the internet isn't going to do any good so for the past few weeks I've been letting off steam and crying my eyes out, but I've calmed down now and starting think postively long term how this can be tackled. Surely its better than thinking about suicide all the time??
Its still 4 years and a month before I turn 30, so it is plenty of time for therapy and socialising to improve by then (if I work at it - which I will).
I'm just keep thinking to myself I can't be that bad surely??
So as I say just thinking postively about myself and looking to see what the 'small steps' are that I can take.
Thanks for all the support guys, the fight starts here!! Lets get off my arse and do something!! Bring it on!!
But I realise I've got to try and get out of this, look I'm 25, I don't turn 30 for another 4 years and a month. And if I keep working at it going to counselling, trying social events, I may not even get a girlfriend till I am say 35 that late, but thats still 10 years away. If I work at it now, I'm know I'm still young enough to break this. I have time on my side, just got fight it from now on and stay positive and it can change!
this is so great!
Someone I know very well didn't lose theirs until 28 so you've got plenty of time
I wish you luck though, as you seem to have a clear plan on how to turn your life around. I hope it works for you.
Yes but understand though thats it going to be a lot of hard work, I'm still going to have a lot of depressing nights over the next 6 months or so probably.
But as long as I try and make progress, who knows. All I know is that I've only had counselling for 2 months for the first time in my life, anti depressants for 6 weeks. If I can work at this hard for 4+ years, who knows I might be a different person (hopefully I will be!).
Re the virginity. I have considered losing my virginity to an escort over the next year, not some to any cheap one, but a experianced one (over the age of 35) just learn the ropes of sex and explain it to her.
You have to understand, I am human, I like sex, and sex is an important part of life to most people. I don't really care who I lose it to, its just sex to me, love sex is different from sex with an escort IMO.
I don't want to get addicted to them, but just have the experiance, plus I am horny guy occassionally. I guess most women would be put off by this though? I know a lot of women think its degrading to use escorts, and IMO I agree, but I think I am a special case and it might do me some good tbh. I don't think most women would care if it was way in the past. Russell Brand lost his virginity to an escort ffs.
What do people think? Is that an extreme way of losing your virginity? Or should I just wait? I pretty horny, to not have sex by the time your 26 is a bit annoying sometimes.
Look at crazychris, he keeps telling us how he was a late developer. He didn't get anywhere until he was into his 30s. If he can find himself a wife then so can you.
Even that miserable 5340robert managed to get himself a girlfriend, don't think he was with her for long. You're not even on the same level as he is anyway. You're far nicer.