If he's clean, and there's no evidence he isn't, then it was a good finalist's performance. If he thought he had a kick in him to finish off a slow race, why show the world before the event? Catch your opponent by surprise is surely the best tactic?
I don't think the overall time is relevant though. It was the amazing burst of speed towards the end of the race that is relevant. It is not something he has been capable of in the past and it wasn't something that other top class runners in the race were capable of either.
After seeing his finishing speed in the semi, the other competitors did make the mistake of going out too slowly. However I believe it would have been the same outcome whatever the tactics.
So he's got a kick. Big deal. It's especially easy to kick off a slow pace.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but how does dope testing work outside of actual events. There seems to be a intimation that this guy has been under the radar - does that mean he is less likely to be tested during training.
Because Brendan was the one who dismissed the injury that Steve was questioning with "we know he wasn't injured" and went on to suggest something else was going on "it is his improvement that is suspect".
Hi Smudge, I edited my post above re: the 800m semi.
Cram was making the same remarks before there was any issue about the 800m participation or "injury" (in an earlier round of the 1500m) so his suspicions are obviously about the guy's unusually high performance and big improvement over what he's shown all season.
As I said, I do think this has alot to do with where the guy's from. If it was a young Kenyan they would probably be raving about a "great new talent" but when it's an Algerian it's far more suspicious because of their track record. This obviously doesn't mean he's definitely doping and I hope he's clean but I think it explains why Cram is suspicious.
Because Brendan was the one who dismissed the injury that Steve was questioning with "we know he wasn't injured" and went on to suggest something else was going on "it is his improvement that is suspect".
This thread seems to of gone over you're head though , the vast majority in here have picked up on it and you haven't , fair enough , seems obvious what Cram thought about it all.
Cram was making the same remarks before there was any issue about the 800m participation or "injury" (in an earlier round of the 1500m) so his suspicions are obviously about the guy's unusually high performance and big improvement over what he's shown all season.
As I said, I do think this has alot to do with where the guy's from. If it was a young Kenyan they would probably be raving about a "great new talent" but when it's an Algerian it's far more suspicious because of their track record. This obviously doesn't mean he's definitely doping and I hope he's clean but I think it explains why Cram is suspicious.
He has twice represented Algeria at the World Championships in Athletics. His personal bests are 1:43.88 minutes for the 800 m and 3:30.80 minutes for the 1500 metres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoufik_Makhloufi
So the Olympic final was won in a time somewhat slower than his PB
He began competing at the senior level in 2009 and at the 2009 Mediterranean Games he placed fourth in the 1500 metres.[3] An appearance at the Golden Gala meeting followed soon after and he ran a personal best of 3:34.34 minutes. He won his first national title that year and represented his country at the 2009 World Championships in Athletics, where he was a semi-finalist.[4] In 2010 he improved his best to 3:32.94 minutes at the Herculis meeting and ranked among the top twenty that year.[5] He reached the 1500 m final at the 2010 African Championships in Athletics, but failed to finish.[6]
He's been around for a few years then. Just because Cram's not familiar with him, it doesn't automatically follow that he's come from 'nowhere'.
True but you would have thought that commentating on all the DL events and other research he would have an idea who he is, especially as it's 'his' event.
Just looked and the 2008 final was around a second faster.
He has twice represented Algeria at the World Championships in Athletics. His personal bests are 1:43.88 minutes for the 800 m and 3:30.80 minutes for the 1500 metres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoufik_Makhloufi
So the Olympic final was won in a time somewhat slower than his PB
He began competing at the senior level in 2009 and at the 2009 Mediterranean Games he placed fourth in the 1500 metres.[3] An appearance at the Golden Gala meeting followed soon after and he ran a personal best of 3:34.34 minutes. He won his first national title that year and represented his country at the 2009 World Championships in Athletics, where he was a semi-finalist.[4] In 2010 he improved his best to 3:32.94 minutes at the Herculis meeting and ranked among the top twenty that year.[5] He reached the 1500 m final at the 2010 African Championships in Athletics, but failed to finish.[6]
He's been around for a few years then. Just because Cram's not familiar with him, it doesn't automatically follow that he's come from 'nowhere'.
The performances came from nowhere in this Olympics , that what Cram means , im sure he knows his 1500m athletes.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but how does dope testing work outside of actual events. There seems to be a intimation that this guy has been under the radar - does that mean he is less likely to be tested during training.
All medal winners are tested ofcourse and the competitors have been providing samples before the games began too - which is why some were disqualified before the event. Outside of the medal winners, I am not sure how the sampling is done, whether it is completely random across all events, or whether more samples are taken from events with a higher risk of enhancements.
This thread seems to of gone over you're head though , the vast majority in here have picked up on it and you haven't , fair enough , seems obvious what Cram thought about it all.
I'm discussing what was said, not reading minds. Stop being so rude.
Unless he meant improved health between getting the Drs note & running the final.
I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the time (i.e. the turn of speed and the way he was able to sustain that acceleration away from the others for such a long time). That is unusual in a world class race, especially from someone who's not shown that kind of ability before.
I'm sure alot of the athletes in the race have similar PBs but middle and long distance track finals are more tactical and not about fast times so it wasn't about that. It was his ability to accelerate away from the rest that was considered unusual imo.
I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the time (i.e. the turn of speed and the way he was able to sustain that acceleration away from the others for such a long time). That is unusual in a world class race, especially from someone who's not shown that kind of ability before.
I'm sure alot of the athletes in the race have similar PBs but middle and long distance track finals are more tactical and not about fast times so it wasn't about that. It was his ability to accelerate away from the rest that was considered unusual imo.
You don't have that sort of sprint finish in the 1500, you also don't normally see the runner looking so fresh after it either.
I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the time (i.e. the turn of speed and the way he was able to sustain that acceleration away from the others for such a long time). That is unusual in a world class race, especially from someone who's not shown that kind of ability before.
I'm sure alot of the athletes in the race have similar PBs but middle and long distance track finals are more tactical and not about fast times so it wasn't about that. It was his ability to accelerate away from the rest which was considered unusual imo.
Look, I'm not saying he's not dirty - just that he does actually have some pedigree.
I remember Cram used to accelerate away down the back straight.
The race was slow up till that point. I'm more surprised that none of the others were able to go with him tbh.
He has twice represented Algeria at the World Championships in Athletics. His personal bests are 1:43.88 minutes for the 800 m and 3:30.80 minutes for the 1500 metres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoufik_Makhloufi
So the Olympic final was won in a time somewhat slower than his PB
He began competing at the senior level in 2009 and at the 2009 Mediterranean Games he placed fourth in the 1500 metres.[3] An appearance at the Golden Gala meeting followed soon after and he ran a personal best of 3:34.34 minutes. He won his first national title that year and represented his country at the 2009 World Championships in Athletics, where he was a semi-finalist.[4] In 2010 he improved his best to 3:32.94 minutes at the Herculis meeting and ranked among the top twenty that year.[5] He reached the 1500 m final at the 2010 African Championships in Athletics, but failed to finish.[6]
He's been around for a few years then. Just because Cram's not familiar with him, it doesn't automatically follow that he's come from 'nowhere'.
I was a bit surprised at Cram, even though it's mainly the Brit and American distance runners he follows closely. The odd thing to me, which is not what Cram was referring to I know but it perhaps influenced him, was not how far ahead the winner was but how far behind many other guys were.
As you say this Makhloufi has a sub-1'44" 800 time, so naturally he's fast. Interesting read here about him, trains in a group with Abubaker Kaki, spent the winter in Iten in Kenya, same place Mo Farah has been hanging out:
The other thing that comes out there is what poor racers the Kenyans are this time. Who wins in distance depends on his performance but also how the others race, and in this case the form athletes from Kenya (1,2,3 in the world) came 7th, 11th, 12th with ridiculously poor times.
I was a bit surprised at Cram, even though it's mainly the Brit and American distance runners he follows closely. The odd thing to me, which is not what Cram was referring to I know but it perhaps influenced him, was not how far ahead the winner was but how far behind many other guys were.
As you say this Makhloufi has a sub-1'44" 800 time, so naturally he's fast. Interesting read here about him, trains in a group with Abubaker Kaki, spent the winter in Iten in Kenya, same place Mo Farah has been hanging out:
The other thing that comes out there is what poor racers the Kenyans are this time. Who wins in distance depends on his performance but also how the others race, and in this case the form athletes from Kenya (1,2,3 in the world) came 7th, 11th, 12th with ridiculously poor times.
I'm so pleased you pointed that out. I think the sports world is a little topsy-turvy at the moment. Not because some people are doping but because of improved detection, some people aren't (if you get my drift). I think the playing field is more level than it has been for many years.
And yes, the Kenyans have had a poor games by their standards. As have the Aussies & a few other nations.
I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the time (i.e. the turn of speed and the way he was able to sustain that acceleration away from the others for such a long time). That is unusual in a world class race, especially from someone who's not shown that kind of ability before.
Reminded me of a young Eamon Coughlan. Slow pace helped him and he used his superior speed to kick to the finish in the last 200m.
I would be more suspicious of the times Steve Cram was achieving in this event over a quarter of a century ago.
I find some of these holier than though athletes are actually the ones with the most suspicious track records.
Reminded me of a young Eamon Coughlan. Slow pace helped him and he used his superior speed to kick to the finish in the last 200m.
I would be more suspicious of the times Steve Cram was achieving in this event over a quarter of a century ago.
I find some of these holier than though athletes are actually the ones with the most suspicious track records.
My god, you really don't like the British, do you? :eek:
Cram & Coughlan were both great athletes. There has never been any hint or suggestion that Cram was anything other than extremely talented & hard working.
Unlike say, for the sake of argument, Mary De Bruin.
Look, I'm not saying he's not dirty - just that he does actually have some pedigree.
Look, either am I . I'm just trying to explain why there is suspicion from some people. It's quite possible that he is clean and simply a very good athlete in the form of his life. I still think his nationality has got something to do with it as far as Cram is concerned but that of course is even more speculation.
My god, you really don't like the British, do you? :eek:
Cram & Coughlan were both great athletes. There has never been any hint or suggestion that Cram was anything other than extremely talented & hard working.
Unlike say, for the sake of argument, Mary De Bruin.
I find myself offended at the suggestion that i don`t like the British, considering i was born in Manchester, and my father, and both grandfathers fought for Britain.
Are you really that sensitive?
No idea who Mary de Bruin is either, i`m presuming you are talking about the shamed Irish swimmer Michelle Smith?
Comments
So he's got a kick. Big deal. It's especially easy to kick off a slow pace.
And the interview with Gabby just then,
His PBs
2009 3:34.34 minutes
2010 3:32.94 minutes
2012 3:30.80 minutes
Looks like a steady progression to me
Unless he meant improved health between getting the Drs note & running the final.
As I said, I do think this has alot to do with where the guy's from. If it was a young Kenyan they would probably be raving about a "great new talent" but when it's an Algerian it's far more suspicious because of their track record. This obviously doesn't mean he's definitely doping and I hope he's clean but I think it explains why Cram is suspicious.
This thread seems to of gone over you're head though , the vast majority in here have picked up on it and you haven't , fair enough , seems obvious what Cram thought about it all.
I didn't pick up any suspicions about Sanchez. In fact I thought everyone was pretty chuffed that he won (apart from the fact that Dai didn't)
Just looked and the 2008 final was around a second faster.
The performances came from nowhere in this Olympics , that what Cram means , im sure he knows his 1500m athletes.
I am only quoting Brendan Electra, but he was talking about this season and possibly the speed of that final sprint.
All medal winners are tested ofcourse and the competitors have been providing samples before the games began too - which is why some were disqualified before the event. Outside of the medal winners, I am not sure how the sampling is done, whether it is completely random across all events, or whether more samples are taken from events with a higher risk of enhancements.
I'm discussing what was said, not reading minds. Stop being so rude.
Not as well as he thinks he does. The guy ran his pb on 20th july this year & it's four seconds faster than the Olympic winning time.
I'm sure alot of the athletes in the race have similar PBs but middle and long distance track finals are more tactical and not about fast times so it wasn't about that. It was his ability to accelerate away from the rest that was considered unusual imo.
You don't have that sort of sprint finish in the 1500, you also don't normally see the runner looking so fresh after it either.
Look, I'm not saying he's not dirty - just that he does actually have some pedigree.
I remember Cram used to accelerate away down the back straight.
The race was slow up till that point. I'm more surprised that none of the others were able to go with him tbh.
All I can find is that Farah's last lap was 53.48 seconds
Just wondering how the final sprints compare
Cram said on the late night BBC1 show that the Algerian "started running fast times this year", so he's aware of that PB.
As you say this Makhloufi has a sub-1'44" 800 time, so naturally he's fast. Interesting read here about him, trains in a group with Abubaker Kaki, spent the winter in Iten in Kenya, same place Mo Farah has been hanging out:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4736607
The other thing that comes out there is what poor racers the Kenyans are this time. Who wins in distance depends on his performance but also how the others race, and in this case the form athletes from Kenya (1,2,3 in the world) came 7th, 11th, 12th with ridiculously poor times.
I'm so pleased you pointed that out. I think the sports world is a little topsy-turvy at the moment. Not because some people are doping but because of improved detection, some people aren't (if you get my drift). I think the playing field is more level than it has been for many years.
And yes, the Kenyans have had a poor games by their standards. As have the Aussies & a few other nations.
Reminded me of a young Eamon Coughlan. Slow pace helped him and he used his superior speed to kick to the finish in the last 200m.
I would be more suspicious of the times Steve Cram was achieving in this event over a quarter of a century ago.
I find some of these holier than though athletes are actually the ones with the most suspicious track records.
My god, you really don't like the British, do you? :eek:
Cram & Coughlan were both great athletes. There has never been any hint or suggestion that Cram was anything other than extremely talented & hard working.
Unlike say, for the sake of argument, Mary De Bruin.
I find myself offended at the suggestion that i don`t like the British, considering i was born in Manchester, and my father, and both grandfathers fought for Britain.
Are you really that sensitive?
No idea who Mary de Bruin is either, i`m presuming you are talking about the shamed Irish swimmer Michelle Smith?