Which doesn't explain their high customer satisfaction scores.
I your claims that the 4S is useless are not shared by millions (in fact 10s of millions) of owners.:rolleyes:
I should add, I reckon I know a fair few iphone owners and I've never heard anyone talk about the phone the way you do.
Actually, it does explain the high satisfaction levels. And i know a fair few as well and they are not satisfied apart from my daft father who cant see past them.
But then absolutely everything i have said and others have said here for months, you have just said the complete opposite. So discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time isn't it?
I totally agree. Apple are very good at marketing, but they also provide goods that the people who buy them want. They have very high satisfaction levels.
I'm not sure about jeans costing £200+ but if you buy a pair from Asda and compare with (for example) a £60+ pair of levi 501s then yes, the material, fit, quality are all vastly better.
There is I agree levels of brand loyalty in all walks of life but never since I would say the launch of the ipod a level of brand mania like apple. For as long ago as the ipod people who didn't own one buying white headphones to give the impression they did.
It is pointless to quote examples where paying more money actually gets you a better product. I have said this quite a few times and still await an answer why is the iphone worth the inflated price over another smartphone e.g. the s3. If you need say 32gb ram on your phone the difference is around £250.
No car analogies or references to other brands I really want to know why people consider the iphone worth around 70% more?
Actually, it does explain the high satisfaction levels. And i know a fair few as well and they are not satisfied apart from my daft father who cant see past them.
But then absolutely everything i have said and others have said here for months, you have just said the complete opposite. So discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time isn't it?
Have I If you mean that when somebody said something I don't immediately agree with them but try and find out for myself then yes, I do that.
Referring to my earlier post regarding your accusations, I have good reason to believe what you post might be exaggerated, but I'm happy to take it at face value and check it out for myself.
I also wouldn't bring any other poster into this as I've not seen any one else talk about any phone (apple or android) the way you do.
If you think I've posted some inaccuracies or something erroneous let me know and I will happily give an apology, I have no problem with that.
It is pointless to quote examples where paying more money actually gets you a better product. I have said this quite a few times and still await an answer why is the iphone worth the inflated price over another smartphone e.g. the s3. If you need say 32gb ram on your phone the difference is around £250.
I wouldn't attempt to justify the price Apple charge, although again they understand their market and price accordingly. I think Apple are far from unique in this.
However, I do think Apple provide a quality service including the items themselves, the software and the backup service. People may not agree but others are obviously happy.
I wouldn't attempt to justify the price Apple charge, although again they understand their market and price accordingly. I think Apple are far from unique in this.
However, I do think Apple provide a quality service including the items themselves, the software and the backup service. People may not agree but others are obviously happy.
So you can't then
And yes you are right they do understand their market all to well.
I can't. What do we consider an acceptable level of profit per handset?
If for example the S3 cost £50 to make do we consider their price excessive (I assume we don't know what either Apple or Samsung make in markup)?
An acceptable level of profit is whatever you can get and I won't knock apple for that. I do however question some customers willingness to pay it given the alternatives that could be had.
Don't get me wrong for apple to get where they are today making in essence phones and a few other things is the envy of every other company and really quite incredible. I have never seen of any brand that has such loyalty and following like apple do. I however cannot see why it does befuddle my little brain.
An acceptable level of profit is whatever you can get and I won't knock apple for that. I do however question some customers willingness to pay it given the alternatives that could be had.
Don't get me wrong for apple to get where they are today making in essence phones and a few other things is the envy of every other company and really quite incredible. I have never seen of any brand that has such loyalty and following like apple do. I however cannot see why it does befuddle my little brain.
I think we almost agree:eek: The difference is I can easily see why people choose iOS over Android. I think they offer a different experience.
I think we almost agree:eek: The difference is I can easily see why people choose iOS over Android. I think they offer a different experience.
Whilst obviously I don't think ios is anywhere near the level of android I really don't think the majority people buy the iphone because of ios don't even think they know which os in on there or for many what it is called.
Whilst obviously I don't think ios is anywhere near the level of android I really don't think the majority people buy the iphone because of ios don't even think they know which os in on there or for many what it is called.
Do you think that the majority of people who buy Android phones actually know what they are getting?
I would agree that the majority of ordinary people (unlike us knowledgeable types!) don't really know about iOS or Android. They choose a phone based on what it can do, or what they think it can do, or because it suits their needs, or because they're loyal to a brand, or because of what the phone looks or feels like.
I would agree that the majority of ordinary people (unlike us knowledgeable types!) don't really know about iOS or Android. They choose a phone based on what it can do, or what they think it can do, or because it suits their needs, or because they're loyal to a brand, or because of what the phone looks or feels like.
To a certain extent I'd agree with this. I also think that non-techy people buy an iPhone because that's what they've heard of. They may even buy another type of smartphone and refer to it as an iPhone even if it isn't - in the same way that people refer to MP3 players as iPods when they're not. I don't think that's the majority of people, but older people might well do this (in a thread in the tablet area someone's mum asked for an iPad, but just meant a tablet of some sort).
The Ace 2 is not a small phone (as far as I as concern the S3 is a (very) large phone) and far more people own screens 4' or smaller so keyboards cannot be a problem for the vast majority of people.
I am also wary of the choice is good view. To give you an example, I'm not keen on the message app that my phone came with. It was then suggested that I change it and through the forum and friends I was recommended 7 different apps to try, I do not think that is a great way to go. I know lots of people think that is great, but what do you do, every time a new app comes out you change to see if it suits you? Not really my cup of tea.
As I've said, I'm sure I'll get use to it, but my feelings at the moment is that it is all a bit of a mess.
I have only just returned to DS after a weekend fell running but I think it needs a response.
Is the Ace 2 a small phone? Well I think it is, you think it isn’t. I have owned a Galaxy Note and currently have a Galaxy Nexus, you came from the iPhone. It is easy to see how our viewpoints were formed. These days high end Android devices are coming to the table with ~4.7” screens and then there is the large form factor of the Note. Of course some (many) like smaller devices and I think Samsung missed an opportunity with the S3 mini, It should have had the same processor and screen (if that was possible – maybe 4” 720p screens are hard to manufacture) as the S3 and given people a choice of high end phones at this size.
Which brings me to the statement “wary of the choice is good view”. I find this a hard statement to live with. Now I am quite prepared to believe you didn’t like the Samsung TouchWiz messaging app. My experience with TouchWiz was less than happy and I rarely used the Samsung apps on my Galaxy Note (which always ran custom ROMs when I had it). However my wife now has the phone (returned to stock) and she like the Samsung apps apart from the launcher. OK 7 different messaging apps are a lot to try but it is worthwhile if you get one that is right for you. I would imagine the majority of people never change, contacts, messaging, dialers or launchers on Android but the fact that you CAN is not a mess, it is a strength. My advice for you and anyone else is don’t buy a phone running a manufacturers crappy skin. TouchWiz, Sense and the Sony, Motorola and LG skins all make Android worse. The best user experience is found on a Nexus. The only place stock Android is lacking is the lack of features in the camera app. But guess what? There are alternatives in the Play Store. Of course that is just one point of view.
I have only just returned to DS after a weekend fell running but I think it needs a response.
Is the Ace 2 a small phone? Well I think it is, you think it isn’t. I have owned a Galaxy Note and currently have a Galaxy Nexus, you came from the iPhone.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your post as I think you make valid points. I was just giving my view that choice (which is good) soon becomes confusion (which I don't think is so great). I would guess (happy to be wrong) that most people do not go for major re-configuration of their phone (I expect most just change a background picture).
The only corrections I wanted to make is I have not come from iphone, my only previous smartphone (loose definition) is a blackberry (my wife has an ipad). My other point is the vast, vast majority of people own smartphones less than 4" so that is the norm.
Maybe a silly question but Is changing the ROM on a phone considered jailbreaking?
Confusion is the same on all the platforms, have you tried looking for a todo app on iOS, or even a different browser? Same thing exists everywhere, the difference is that apple won't let you chnage default behaviour, so add a new browser if you want but you can't make it the default browser, which is just stupid.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your post as I think you make valid points. I was just giving my view that choice (which is good) soon becomes confusion (which I don't think is so great). I would guess (happy to be wrong) that most people do not go for major re-configuration of their phone (I expect most just change a background picture).
My 80+ year old nana doesn't get confused with Android when she tries new apps etc, neither does my 6 year old nephew. So how in the world do you get confused?....
Maybe a silly question but Is changing the ROM on a phone considered jailbreaking?
Yes, but like jailbreaking it can be reversed thus not invalidating the warranty.
My 80+ year old nana doesn't get confused with Android when she tries new apps etc, neither does my 6 year old nephew. So how in the world do you get confused?....
You appear to have a truly remarkable (if a little unlucky) family:rolleyes: However, I don't think I ever said I found using apps (per say) confusing
I did have a problem with working out how to stop the samsung stock app from sending MMS as I could find no obvious setting to stop it. Maybe you can ask your nana for me?
Yes, but like jailbreaking it can be reversed thus not invalidating the warranty.
Thank you. So does a samsung phone need to be jailbroken in order to remove touchwiz?
It's the unlocking of the bootloader that causes the warranty issues.
The OS images don't really matter as they can be re-flashed as said, but if you corrupt the bootloader following incorrect unlocking instructions and brick the device you might have trouble getting it replaced under warranty.
It's something that device manufacturers are warming to more and more as time goes on, and several now give bootloader unlocking instructions, but they still make it clear that you may find yourself on your own if something goes wrong. HTC in particular give a rather strong warning about this:
We strongly suggest that you do not unlock the bootloader unless you are confident that you understand the risks involved. This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty. If you are still interested in unlocking the bootloader, and you understand the consequences both to your device and to your warranty, then you may refer to the following pages where we have provided the unlocking instructions.
Even Google say that unlocking the bootloader on the Nexus One (made by HTC) is irreversible and voids the warranty (although I can't imagine there are many of these left still under warranty now anyway).
There's less risk on today's devices though, as the bootloaders are made with ways to safely unlock them.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your post as I think you make valid points. I was just giving my view that choice (which is good) soon becomes confusion (which I don't think is so great). I would guess (happy to be wrong) that most people do not go for major re-configuration of their phone (I expect most just change a background picture).
The only corrections I wanted to make is I have not come from iphone, my only previous smartphone (loose definition) is a blackberry (my wife has an ipad). My other point is the vast, vast majority of people own smartphones less than 4" so that is the norm.
Maybe a silly question but Is changing the ROM on a phone considered jailbreaking?
I wonder what percentage of smartphone Users DO have a screen of 4" or above ? Im guessing these days its not going to be that small a minority .......
This might be a stupid, or outdated, point......
Isnt jailbreaking a popular way of getting apps for free (as well as allowing some customisation) ? In other words allowing illegal use of your phone .....
Rooting doesnt really - to my knowledge - provide a way of getting paid apps for free .........
Whilst the two are often compared side by side I believe there are some fairly fundamental differences. But I may be wrong.
You appear to have a truly remarkable (if a little unlucky) family:rolleyes:
Your becoming a little to personal now for my liking.
Unlucky, becuause a 6 year old and an old woman can use Android but you cant? Odd...
However, I don't think I ever said I found using apps (per say) confusing
I think you find most things confusing to be honest.
You think choice is a bad thing, you think choice is confusing. then you have the gall to slag my family off. What a bloody cheek you have...
I did have a problem with working out how to stop the samsung stock app from sending MMS as I could find no obvious setting to stop it. Maybe you can ask your nana for me?
If i see one more reference berating my family, i will be speaking to the mods as I'm sure this isn't the first time you have done it....
Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to stop that service? Just don't bloody use it! Perfectly simple for most people....You cant stop it like you cant stop it on any other platform. Stop that, you stop the whole messaging service working.
Thank you. So does a samsung phone need to be jailbroken in order to remove touchwiz?
No. Download any launcher from the market like Nova etc unless that proves to confusing of course....
Your becoming a little to personal now for my liking.
Unlucky, becuause a 6 year old and an old woman can use Android but you cant? Odd...
I think you find most things confusing to be honest.
You think choice is a bad thing, you think choice is confusing. then you have the gall to slag my family off. What a bloody cheek you have...
If i see one more reference berating my family, i will be speaking to the mods as I'm sure this isn't the first time you have done it....
Insulting, Slag off, Berating, as usual your normal exaggerated words. If you think I have done any of those things then go to the mods. I assume you will have to provide a link to where it happened. Every time I have asked you to do that, you have failed.
Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to stop that service? Just don't bloody use it! Perfectly simple for most people....You cant stop it like you cant stop it on any other platform. Stop that, you stop the whole messaging service working.
Why would stopping MMS stop the SMS service I think you may be confused.
No. Download any launcher from the market like Nova etc unless that proves to confusing of course....
Insulting, Slag off, Berating, as usual your normal exaggerated words. If you think I have done any of those things then go to the mods. I assume you will have to provide a link to where it happened. Every time I have asked you to do that, you have failed.
Every time? When would that have been then? If it was within the last 2 weeks, i was on holiday...
I don't think you have, i know you have. I refer you to your previous post.
Why would stopping MMS stop the SMS service I think you may be confused.
No, im not confused. I have delved into making my own custom roms for Android so i do know! It uses the same services on Android. Stopping one stops the other. Just dont use MMS. I fail to see any need to stop it.
I'm sure I'd cope.
I use Nova and its fine as i don't really like touchwhiz myself. The free one is fine but i preferred the extra functionality of the paid one.
Comments
Actually, it does explain the high satisfaction levels. And i know a fair few as well and they are not satisfied apart from my daft father who cant see past them.
But then absolutely everything i have said and others have said here for months, you have just said the complete opposite. So discussing anything with you is a complete waste of time isn't it?
There is I agree levels of brand loyalty in all walks of life but never since I would say the launch of the ipod a level of brand mania like apple. For as long ago as the ipod people who didn't own one buying white headphones to give the impression they did.
It is pointless to quote examples where paying more money actually gets you a better product. I have said this quite a few times and still await an answer why is the iphone worth the inflated price over another smartphone e.g. the s3. If you need say 32gb ram on your phone the difference is around £250.
No car analogies or references to other brands I really want to know why people consider the iphone worth around 70% more?
Have I
Referring to my earlier post regarding your accusations, I have good reason to believe what you post might be exaggerated, but I'm happy to take it at face value and check it out for myself.
I also wouldn't bring any other poster into this as I've not seen any one else talk about any phone (apple or android) the way you do.
If you think I've posted some inaccuracies or something erroneous let me know and I will happily give an apology, I have no problem with that.
I wouldn't attempt to justify the price Apple charge, although again they understand their market and price accordingly. I think Apple are far from unique in this.
However, I do think Apple provide a quality service including the items themselves, the software and the backup service. People may not agree but others are obviously happy.
So you can't then
And yes you are right they do understand their market all to well.
I can't. What do we consider an acceptable level of profit per handset?
If for example the S3 cost £50 to make do we consider their price excessive (I assume we don't know what either Apple or Samsung make in markup)?
An acceptable level of profit is whatever you can get and I won't knock apple for that. I do however question some customers willingness to pay it given the alternatives that could be had.
Don't get me wrong for apple to get where they are today making in essence phones and a few other things is the envy of every other company and really quite incredible. I have never seen of any brand that has such loyalty and following like apple do. I however cannot see why it does befuddle my little brain.
I think we almost agree:eek: The difference is I can easily see why people choose iOS over Android. I think they offer a different experience.
Whilst obviously I don't think ios is anywhere near the level of android I really don't think the majority people buy the iphone because of ios don't even think they know which os in on there or for many what it is called.
Do you think that the majority of people who buy Android phones actually know what they are getting?
I would suspect not.
To a certain extent I'd agree with this. I also think that non-techy people buy an iPhone because that's what they've heard of. They may even buy another type of smartphone and refer to it as an iPhone even if it isn't - in the same way that people refer to MP3 players as iPods when they're not. I don't think that's the majority of people, but older people might well do this (in a thread in the tablet area someone's mum asked for an iPad, but just meant a tablet of some sort).
I have only just returned to DS after a weekend fell running but I think it needs a response.
Is the Ace 2 a small phone? Well I think it is, you think it isn’t. I have owned a Galaxy Note and currently have a Galaxy Nexus, you came from the iPhone. It is easy to see how our viewpoints were formed. These days high end Android devices are coming to the table with ~4.7” screens and then there is the large form factor of the Note. Of course some (many) like smaller devices and I think Samsung missed an opportunity with the S3 mini, It should have had the same processor and screen (if that was possible – maybe 4” 720p screens are hard to manufacture) as the S3 and given people a choice of high end phones at this size.
Which brings me to the statement “wary of the choice is good view”. I find this a hard statement to live with. Now I am quite prepared to believe you didn’t like the Samsung TouchWiz messaging app. My experience with TouchWiz was less than happy and I rarely used the Samsung apps on my Galaxy Note (which always ran custom ROMs when I had it). However my wife now has the phone (returned to stock) and she like the Samsung apps apart from the launcher. OK 7 different messaging apps are a lot to try but it is worthwhile if you get one that is right for you. I would imagine the majority of people never change, contacts, messaging, dialers or launchers on Android but the fact that you CAN is not a mess, it is a strength. My advice for you and anyone else is don’t buy a phone running a manufacturers crappy skin. TouchWiz, Sense and the Sony, Motorola and LG skins all make Android worse. The best user experience is found on a Nexus. The only place stock Android is lacking is the lack of features in the camera app. But guess what? There are alternatives in the Play Store. Of course that is just one point of view.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your post as I think you make valid points. I was just giving my view that choice (which is good) soon becomes confusion (which I don't think is so great). I would guess (happy to be wrong) that most people do not go for major re-configuration of their phone (I expect most just change a background picture).
The only corrections I wanted to make is I have not come from iphone, my only previous smartphone (loose definition) is a blackberry (my wife has an ipad). My other point is the vast, vast majority of people own smartphones less than 4" so that is the norm.
Maybe a silly question but Is changing the ROM on a phone considered jailbreaking?
My 80+ year old nana doesn't get confused with Android when she tries new apps etc, neither does my 6 year old nephew. So how in the world do you get confused?....
Yes, but like jailbreaking it can be reversed thus not invalidating the warranty.
Changing the ROM can be reversed...not sure about the warranty. Certainly I've claimed on the warranty after flashing my phone previously.
Yeah, thats what i mean. It can be reversed so you can claim.
sorry misread it!
You appear to have a truly remarkable (if a little unlucky) family:rolleyes: However, I don't think I ever said I found using apps (per say) confusing
I did have a problem with working out how to stop the samsung stock app from sending MMS as I could find no obvious setting to stop it. Maybe you can ask your nana for me?
Thank you. So does a samsung phone need to be jailbroken in order to remove touchwiz?
The OS images don't really matter as they can be re-flashed as said, but if you corrupt the bootloader following incorrect unlocking instructions and brick the device you might have trouble getting it replaced under warranty.
It's something that device manufacturers are warming to more and more as time goes on, and several now give bootloader unlocking instructions, but they still make it clear that you may find yourself on your own if something goes wrong. HTC in particular give a rather strong warning about this:
We strongly suggest that you do not unlock the bootloader unless you are confident that you understand the risks involved. This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty. If you are still interested in unlocking the bootloader, and you understand the consequences both to your device and to your warranty, then you may refer to the following pages where we have provided the unlocking instructions.
Even Google say that unlocking the bootloader on the Nexus One (made by HTC) is irreversible and voids the warranty (although I can't imagine there are many of these left still under warranty now anyway).
There's less risk on today's devices though, as the bootloaders are made with ways to safely unlock them.
I wonder what percentage of smartphone Users DO have a screen of 4" or above ? Im guessing these days its not going to be that small a minority .......
This might be a stupid, or outdated, point......
Isnt jailbreaking a popular way of getting apps for free (as well as allowing some customisation) ? In other words allowing illegal use of your phone .....
Rooting doesnt really - to my knowledge - provide a way of getting paid apps for free .........
Whilst the two are often compared side by side I believe there are some fairly fundamental differences. But I may be wrong.
Your becoming a little to personal now for my liking.
Unlucky, becuause a 6 year old and an old woman can use Android but you cant? Odd...
I think you find most things confusing to be honest.
You think choice is a bad thing, you think choice is confusing. then you have the gall to slag my family off. What a bloody cheek you have...
If i see one more reference berating my family, i will be speaking to the mods as I'm sure this isn't the first time you have done it....
Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to stop that service? Just don't bloody use it! Perfectly simple for most people....You cant stop it like you cant stop it on any other platform. Stop that, you stop the whole messaging service working.
No. Download any launcher from the market like Nova etc unless that proves to confusing of course....
Insulting, Slag off, Berating, as usual your normal exaggerated words. If you think I have done any of those things then go to the mods. I assume you will have to provide a link to where it happened. Every time I have asked you to do that, you have failed.
Why would stopping MMS stop the SMS service
Every time? When would that have been then? If it was within the last 2 weeks, i was on holiday...
I don't think you have, i know you have. I refer you to your previous post.
No, im not confused. I have delved into making my own custom roms for Android so i do know! It uses the same services on Android. Stopping one stops the other. Just dont use MMS. I fail to see any need to stop it.
I use Nova and its fine as i don't really like touchwhiz myself. The free one is fine but i preferred the extra functionality of the paid one.