It didn't need to have been printed on here. There are many customs that are an anathema to us, they don't have to be spelled out here though on a public forum.
Remember anyone of a sensitive nature or even warped mind can read this thread.
And they can also read the information I posted elsewhere on the Internet. This is a thread about paedophilia. Do you expect it to be completely inoffensive? Some of the stories I've read on pages linked to from here have left me crying in despair. What I posted was shocking but hardly graphic - and completely non-violent. If you're that queezy perhaps this is the wrong thread for you, because the things some abuse victims go through make what I described sound positively delightful.
Well some of us around here had to watch Andy Pandy (The original version). At the end of each programme he got into that picnic basket with Teddy and Looby Loo where they all stayed for a whole week. Mind you at the time I was probably concerned about how uncomfortable it must have been.
And don't start me on what happened the following day when those two scoundrels Bill & Ben popped up. I dread to think what might have been growing in that big pot with Little Weed. :eek:
The comedian at thje Apollo tonight said he didn't find Yogi and Booboo cute. "That hat, shirt and tie that Yogi wore, once belonged to his victim.":D
I think you are right, and I wonder how much of that different attitude may have been seen in Margaret Jones' comments in the Mail today i.e. that the girls brought it on themselves, they were promiscuous or 'immoral' so it was their own fault. Maybe it's just a ignorance of what is now understood about psychology, and how previous abuse can cause promiscuity at a younger age i.e. so someone who understood that might be more sympathetic rather than seemingly disgusted at 'well known delinquents' as Margaret Jones described the victims, and know that it was her duty not to have wealthy older men hang around her school, however much they flattered her or the girls seemed to not complain about it.
Thank you for putting what I would have liked to have said, but would never have been able to word as well as you have
Because sometimes people start bringing up lower ages of consent around the world, sexual practices with children observed in primitive tribes as a tactic of promoting paedophilia, looking at the thread progression back from your post I can see that isn't likely to be the case, so apologies if I seemed to be jumping on you.
I think you are right, and I wonder how much of that different attitude may have been seen in Margaret Jones' comments in the Mail today i.e. that the girls brought it on themselves, they were promiscuous or 'immoral' so it was their own fault. Maybe it's just a ignorance of what is now understood about psychology, and how previous abuse can cause promiscuity at a younger age i.e. so someone who understood that might be more sympathetic rather than seemingly disgusted at 'well known delinquents' as Margaret Jones described the victims, and know that it was her duty not to have wealthy older men hang around her school, however much they flattered her or the girls seemed to not complain about it.
No worries.
But the girls in Rochdale were ignored on the same premise. Have attitudes changed that much? They say it was down to political correctness because the accused were Muslim, but whatever the reason, the girls weren't helped and were labelled promiscuous.
The bit about "prison staff paying themselves too much" seems unlikely for basic salary. Fiddling overtime, unsocial hours payments etc seems the most likely to me.
They do, but we have that legal thing called presumption of innocence, and I for one am glad we do. Whats that expression , 'It's better that 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man be wrongly convicted' whilst unpalatable at times its true. If there are more guilty parties out there lets get them good and proper with good old fashioned evidence and not damage cases and possibly innocent people with dodgy accusations flying aorund.
It's about power again - abuse, I mean. Some ...no..many people with any power over other people veer into abuse because - they can. It happens in the home, at work and in places where children and other people should be being cared for.There's abuse of the disabled and the elderly too.
It makes the perpetrators feel even more, powerful. It's as if they haven't matured intellectually, emotionally, socially and morally. We wouldn't give a six year old a loaded gun to play with but many people who haven't progressed in some, ways to much more than that level ie social etc development, end up in positions of power over people who are vulnerable for example physically. I'd include financial power too. The strongest win. We assume that everyone can empathise to a high level but many can't or won't. Why would they ? They're having a blast.
The only deterrent is a greater strength and power. In terms of child abuse, the public generally doesnt' bother to claim either of those things especially if they are past childhood and weren't abused, aren't disabled or old or particularly vulnerable. That's selfish of course but many people don't take the protection of the vulnerable seriously until it happens to them personally.
It seems to be about survival of ' the fittest'...who is most self centred and who is most powerful. It's only people acting together, as one voice, that can influence the behaviour of those who think that they have free rein to behave as they please. I think that sentences for child abuse when there is no question that someone is guilty should be life. We are the majority but our wishes are ignored by elected representatives. They achieve power and often, that was the objective. Thus we're all, vulnerable.
It's about power again - abuse, I mean. Some ...no..many people with any power over other people veer into abuse because - they can. It happens in the home, at work and in places where children and other people should be being cared for.There's abuse of the disabled and the elderly too.
It makes the perpetrators feel even more, powerful. It's as if they haven't matured intellectually, emotionally, socially and morally. We wouldn't give a six year old a loaded gun to play with but many people who haven't progressed in some, ways to much more than that level ie social etc development, end up in positions of power over people who are vulnerable for example physically. I'd include financial power too. The strongest win. We assume that everyone can empathise to a high level but many can't or won't. Why would they ? They're having a blast.
The only deterrent is a greater strength and power. In terms of child abuse, the public generally doesnt' bother to claim either of those things especially if they are past childhood and weren't abused, aren't disabled or old or particularly vulnerable. That's selfish of course but many people don't take the protection of the vulnerable seriously until it happens to them personally.
It seems to be about survival of ' the fittest'...who is most self centred and who is most powerful. It's only people acting together, as one voice, that can influence the behaviour of those who think that they have free rein to behave as they please. I think that sentences for child abuse when there is no question that someone is guilty should be life. We are the majority but our wishes are ignored by elected representatives. They achieve power and often, that was the objective. Thus we're all, vulnerable.
I've been out for the evening and haven't had time to read the last several pages.
Before I went out I e mailed my MP(Conservative) and asked him to voice my support for Tom Watson and to back his demand for an enquiry. I also asked him to enquire specifically about two people in particular.
I have just felt helpless sat here reading this stuff and doing nothing. I would hope every little helps - perhaps all of you who are as concerned as I am might do something similar. Nothing to lose.
Oddly enough at the 'do' I went to Austin Mitchell was in attendance - although I made a point of shaking his hand I didn't touch on the subject. I wish I had done now.
And they can also read the information I posted elsewhere on the Internet. This is a thread about paedophilia. Do you expect it to be completely inoffensive? Some of the stories I've read on pages linked to from here have left me crying in despair. What I posted was shocking but hardly graphic - and completely non-violent. If you're that queezy perhaps this is the wrong thread for you, because the things some abuse victims go through make what I described sound positively delightful.
In my opinion your post was too graphic and irrelevant anyway. A number of posters have said it made them feel sick. Not me as I've read of far worse.
As I said, there are probably some warped minds reading and your post played straight at them.
The BBC has had a bashing.
but long before any of this broke without panorama taking a person and hidden cam into winterbourne view.That place would still be open and I dread to think what would have happened to those poor people being abused in there.
it was almost sureal last week sky news had the JS story then a followup on the Carehome failings and how its still open to abuse.The mere fact that type of abuse was being allowed to carry on and with the latest update on the Gentleman who was on newsnight and of course the JS scandal it wont get sorted until theres a massive review on all aspects media.NHS.private care homes etc
It would be a huge task for sure, but long overdue and maybe those people who are abusing not only the victims but positions of trust would be finally rooted out and dealt with.
"Savile, the police and the social club that lasted 20 years
By Kat Lay David Brown
Jimmy Savile cultivated the friendship of a group of senior police officers through weekly meetings at his penthouse apartment, while being investigated over a string of abuse cases, a friend of the star has told The Times.
The broadcaster's "Friday Morning Club" included up to nine serving and retired police officers. The meetings were held regularly for almost 20 years until shortly before his death.
There is no suggestion that the men had any idea that Savile was involved in abuses, or that during this period police in other parts of the country were investigating at least six allegations that he had sexually abused children. Scotland Yard has been contacted by more than 300 possible victims with accounts of abuse over 40 years.
Most of the officers who attended the "club" at Savile's home in Leeds were from West Yorkshire Police, the force now investigating claims that Savile abused vulnerable children while working as a volunteer at Leeds General Infirmary.
Joseph Barker, a friend of Savile's since primary school and a founder member of the club, recalled yesterday: "They used to meet every Friday, about a dozen of them. Three quarters of them were police."
He described how Savile would "hold court", leaning back in a black leather armchair with a cigar. "We just drank tea and made light conversation. He was more of a listener when we were there - he liked to get people's opinions," Mr Barker, 85, said.
"Princess Di used to phone him while we were there in the Friday Morning Club. Just like that."
He said the BBC Radio 1 DJ and host of Top of the Pops and Jim'll Fix It had befriended some of the officers while giving talks at corporate functions or community events.
Mr Barker was one of Savile's oldest friends alongside the DJ's long-serving BBC radio producer, "Uncle" Ted Beston.
He met Savile when they were pupils at St Anne's Primary School in Leeds. They became close friends, cycled together in the Yorkshire Dales and threw a joint 21st birthday party. Mr Barker filmed two documentaries with Savile about mining, one for the BBC and one for ITV. He and his wife, Iris, would go on holiday to Scarborough three times a year and tried to co-ordinate their visits with Savile.
He is devastated by the revelations about Savile, saying: "He never mentioned women. It was always racing, cycling and music. I just can't believe it. It's like Jekyll and Hyde."
His wife, who knew Savile for 50 years, thought it was odd that he had never mentioned women.
"I'd never known him have an attraction to a woman his own age," Mrs Barker said. "We always thought he saw himself as one of the mafia. Any problem that arose, he used to say, 'My people will take care of it'. Now we are wondering who 'my people' were."
Savile wrote in his autobiography about an incident in the 1960s when he spent the night with an attractive girl, who had run away from a remand home, before handing her over to police in Leeds. He said a high-ranking woman police officer was persuaded by her colleagues not to charge him as "it was well known that were I to go, I would probably take half the station with me".
Other members of the club included Howard Silverman, a hairdresser and friend for 40 years, Jeffrey Marlowe, a running companion, and David Dalmour, a singer, who along with Mr Barker were each left [pounds sterling]1,000 in Savile's will. Mick Starkey, who retired from West Yorkshire Police as an inspector shortly before Savile's death, was also a member of the Friday Morning Club. The DJ joked that the officer was his "bodyguard".
Mr Starkey, 61, could not be contacted yesterday, but after Savile's death he told his local newspaper how he often drove Savile in his [pounds sterling]150,000 Rolls-Royce, including taking him for a spin in the Yorkshire Dales four days before his death.
"He was a part of my life as I grew up. He was a distant figure associated with Top of the Pops, Pan's People and everything that was trendy," Mr Starkey said. I never thought for a minute that in later life, as a serving police officer, I would meet him professionally or that subsequently we would become close friends."
Another officer named as a club member, Sergeant Matthew Appleyard, who was on duty at Wetherby Police Station in West Yorkshire yesterday, refused to comment. Other officers in the club could not be traced. Savile received recognition for his community work from police forces across the country. An auction of his possessions in July included a table lighter inscribed "To Jimmy Savile from his friends at the Fraud Squad", along with a series of plaques and awards including the Metropolitan Police 150th Anniversary medal.
A spokesman for West Yorkshire Police said that the force had not conducted any past investigations into Savile but had received calls from victims as a result of the recent media coverage. "None of these alleged any failure by police to investigate previously," he added.
The spokesman said Savile had publicly supported some West Yorkshire Police campaigns, although none in recent years. He said that the force had no information about officers attending Savile's Friday Morning Club but that they were free to do what they wished when off duty."
The bit about "prison staff paying themselves too much" seems unlikely for basic salary. Fiddling overtime sounds, unsocial hours payments etc seems the most likely to me.
Thank you for posting that.
WOW, Currie did not appoint JS it was a senior civil servant......JS appointed himself. This woman takes no responsibility for anything....but she can't even lie consistently1
The bit about "prison staff paying themselves too much" seems unlikely for basic salary. Fiddling overtime sounds, unsocial hours payments etc seems the most likely to me.
Curry was in charge but had no control....
She says Saville was creepy but allowed him free reign of Broadmoor.
What part of the article leads you to think they're saying she's a predator? I didn't get that from it at all. All I got was that her and Justin Collins would make a pretty good couple.
I'm not prepared to go to jail just to even out the percentages , if I'm ever convicted of a crime I would like to be guilty of it first.
so I agree with the above posters.
The BBC has had a bashing.
but long before any of this broke without panorama taking a person and hidden cam into winterbourne view.That place would still be open and I dread to think what would have happened to those poor people being abused in there.
it was almost sureal last week sky news had the JS story then a followup on the Carehome failings and how its still open to abuse.The mere fact that type of abuse was being allowed to carry on and with the latest update on the Gentleman who was on newsnight and of course the JS scandal it wont get sorted until theres a massive review on all aspects media.NHS.private care homes etc
It would be a huge task for sure, but long overdue and maybe those people who are abusing not only the victims but positions of trust would be finally rooted out and dealt with.
It should be coming from government too. They has a COBRA meeting the other day about the ash trees problem which might have been exacerbated by politicians. That's a top level meeting. They are re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic -as usual.
Curry was in charge but had no control....
She says Saville was creepy but allowed him free reign of Broadmoor.
Quite incredible levels of dereliction of duty...
sounds like the same tone she used on skynews.
said the same thing but allowed him to carry on even though he was totally outside the Remit of the taskforce which was basically social improvements into the hospital for non criminal patients.
BBC may face public inquiry over Jimmy Savile abuse scandal
The BBC could face a full public inquiry into the Jimmy Savile child sex claims if the broadcaster’s investigations do not get to the truth of the affair, a senior Conservative Cabinet minister has warned. http://ht.ly/2t1fME
Now that wouldn't be an attempt to divert attention from other issues would it? :rolleyes:
Issues getting uncomfortably close to the Conservative Party at the moment, perhaps.
It should be coming from government too. They has a COBRA meeting the other day about the ash trees problem which might have been exacerbated by politicians. That's a top level meeting. They are re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic -as usual.
I agree.
And yet again instead of taking the lead and showing some true control.:( we all know the papers wont stop until every factor of this scandal is exposed.Then it will look like a forced idea to hold a full enquiry
Comments
And they can also read the information I posted elsewhere on the Internet. This is a thread about paedophilia. Do you expect it to be completely inoffensive? Some of the stories I've read on pages linked to from here have left me crying in despair. What I posted was shocking but hardly graphic - and completely non-violent. If you're that queezy perhaps this is the wrong thread for you, because the things some abuse victims go through make what I described sound positively delightful.
Thank you for putting what I would have liked to have said, but would never have been able to word as well as you have
No worries.
But the girls in Rochdale were ignored on the same premise. Have attitudes changed that much? They say it was down to political correctness because the accused were Muslim, but whatever the reason, the girls weren't helped and were labelled promiscuous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ_On7Z6CQ&feature=youtu.be
The bit about "prison staff paying themselves too much" seems unlikely for basic salary. Fiddling overtime, unsocial hours payments etc seems the most likely to me.
I'm completely with you on this.
It makes the perpetrators feel even more, powerful. It's as if they haven't matured intellectually, emotionally, socially and morally. We wouldn't give a six year old a loaded gun to play with but many people who haven't progressed in some, ways to much more than that level ie social etc development, end up in positions of power over people who are vulnerable for example physically. I'd include financial power too. The strongest win. We assume that everyone can empathise to a high level but many can't or won't. Why would they ? They're having a blast.
The only deterrent is a greater strength and power. In terms of child abuse, the public generally doesnt' bother to claim either of those things especially if they are past childhood and weren't abused, aren't disabled or old or particularly vulnerable. That's selfish of course but many people don't take the protection of the vulnerable seriously until it happens to them personally.
It seems to be about survival of ' the fittest'...who is most self centred and who is most powerful. It's only people acting together, as one voice, that can influence the behaviour of those who think that they have free rein to behave as they please. I think that sentences for child abuse when there is no question that someone is guilty should be life. We are the majority but our wishes are ignored by elected representatives. They achieve power and often, that was the objective. Thus we're all, vulnerable.
Nice one!
I can't agree. I'd prefer to do time for something I didn't do than for 10 guilty men to be able to continue to abuse innocent children.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227482/Suicide-BBC-reporter-said-ex-Radio-1-DJ-Liz-Kershaw-threatened-aggressive-phone-calls.html
so are they saying Liz was a predator now, truly confused
Great post
I ain't doing someone else's time. Sorry.
I'm with skp20040.
Before I went out I e mailed my MP(Conservative) and asked him to voice my support for Tom Watson and to back his demand for an enquiry. I also asked him to enquire specifically about two people in particular.
I have just felt helpless sat here reading this stuff and doing nothing. I would hope every little helps - perhaps all of you who are as concerned as I am might do something similar. Nothing to lose.
Oddly enough at the 'do' I went to Austin Mitchell was in attendance - although I made a point of shaking his hand I didn't touch on the subject. I wish I had done now.
As I said, there are probably some warped minds reading and your post played straight at them.
but long before any of this broke without panorama taking a person and hidden cam into winterbourne view.That place would still be open and I dread to think what would have happened to those poor people being abused in there.
it was almost sureal last week sky news had the JS story then a followup on the Carehome failings and how its still open to abuse.The mere fact that type of abuse was being allowed to carry on and with the latest update on the Gentleman who was on newsnight and of course the JS scandal it wont get sorted until theres a massive review on all aspects media.NHS.private care homes etc
It would be a huge task for sure, but long overdue and maybe those people who are abusing not only the victims but positions of trust would be finally rooted out and dealt with.
"Savile, the police and the social club that lasted 20 years
By Kat Lay David Brown
Jimmy Savile cultivated the friendship of a group of senior police officers through weekly meetings at his penthouse apartment, while being investigated over a string of abuse cases, a friend of the star has told The Times.
The broadcaster's "Friday Morning Club" included up to nine serving and retired police officers. The meetings were held regularly for almost 20 years until shortly before his death.
There is no suggestion that the men had any idea that Savile was involved in abuses, or that during this period police in other parts of the country were investigating at least six allegations that he had sexually abused children. Scotland Yard has been contacted by more than 300 possible victims with accounts of abuse over 40 years.
Most of the officers who attended the "club" at Savile's home in Leeds were from West Yorkshire Police, the force now investigating claims that Savile abused vulnerable children while working as a volunteer at Leeds General Infirmary.
Joseph Barker, a friend of Savile's since primary school and a founder member of the club, recalled yesterday: "They used to meet every Friday, about a dozen of them. Three quarters of them were police."
He described how Savile would "hold court", leaning back in a black leather armchair with a cigar. "We just drank tea and made light conversation. He was more of a listener when we were there - he liked to get people's opinions," Mr Barker, 85, said.
"Princess Di used to phone him while we were there in the Friday Morning Club. Just like that."
He said the BBC Radio 1 DJ and host of Top of the Pops and Jim'll Fix It had befriended some of the officers while giving talks at corporate functions or community events.
Mr Barker was one of Savile's oldest friends alongside the DJ's long-serving BBC radio producer, "Uncle" Ted Beston.
He met Savile when they were pupils at St Anne's Primary School in Leeds. They became close friends, cycled together in the Yorkshire Dales and threw a joint 21st birthday party. Mr Barker filmed two documentaries with Savile about mining, one for the BBC and one for ITV. He and his wife, Iris, would go on holiday to Scarborough three times a year and tried to co-ordinate their visits with Savile.
He is devastated by the revelations about Savile, saying: "He never mentioned women. It was always racing, cycling and music. I just can't believe it. It's like Jekyll and Hyde."
His wife, who knew Savile for 50 years, thought it was odd that he had never mentioned women.
"I'd never known him have an attraction to a woman his own age," Mrs Barker said. "We always thought he saw himself as one of the mafia. Any problem that arose, he used to say, 'My people will take care of it'. Now we are wondering who 'my people' were."
Savile wrote in his autobiography about an incident in the 1960s when he spent the night with an attractive girl, who had run away from a remand home, before handing her over to police in Leeds. He said a high-ranking woman police officer was persuaded by her colleagues not to charge him as "it was well known that were I to go, I would probably take half the station with me".
Other members of the club included Howard Silverman, a hairdresser and friend for 40 years, Jeffrey Marlowe, a running companion, and David Dalmour, a singer, who along with Mr Barker were each left [pounds sterling]1,000 in Savile's will. Mick Starkey, who retired from West Yorkshire Police as an inspector shortly before Savile's death, was also a member of the Friday Morning Club. The DJ joked that the officer was his "bodyguard".
Mr Starkey, 61, could not be contacted yesterday, but after Savile's death he told his local newspaper how he often drove Savile in his [pounds sterling]150,000 Rolls-Royce, including taking him for a spin in the Yorkshire Dales four days before his death.
"He was a part of my life as I grew up. He was a distant figure associated with Top of the Pops, Pan's People and everything that was trendy," Mr Starkey said. I never thought for a minute that in later life, as a serving police officer, I would meet him professionally or that subsequently we would become close friends."
Another officer named as a club member, Sergeant Matthew Appleyard, who was on duty at Wetherby Police Station in West Yorkshire yesterday, refused to comment. Other officers in the club could not be traced. Savile received recognition for his community work from police forces across the country. An auction of his possessions in July included a table lighter inscribed "To Jimmy Savile from his friends at the Fraud Squad", along with a series of plaques and awards including the Metropolitan Police 150th Anniversary medal.
A spokesman for West Yorkshire Police said that the force had not conducted any past investigations into Savile but had received calls from victims as a result of the recent media coverage. "None of these alleged any failure by police to investigate previously," he added.
The spokesman said Savile had publicly supported some West Yorkshire Police campaigns, although none in recent years. He said that the force had no information about officers attending Savile's Friday Morning Club but that they were free to do what they wished when off duty."
Thank you for posting that.
WOW, Currie did not appoint JS it was a senior civil servant......JS appointed himself. This woman takes no responsibility for anything....but she can't even lie consistently1
Curry was in charge but had no control....
She says Saville was creepy but allowed him free reign of Broadmoor.
Quite incredible levels of dereliction of duty...
I'm not prepared to go to jail just to even out the percentages , if I'm ever convicted of a crime I would like to be guilty of it first.
so I agree with the above posters.
It should be coming from government too. They has a COBRA meeting the other day about the ash trees problem which might have been exacerbated by politicians. That's a top level meeting. They are re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic -as usual.
sounds like the same tone she used on skynews.
said the same thing but allowed him to carry on even though he was totally outside the Remit of the taskforce which was basically social improvements into the hospital for non criminal patients.
Now that wouldn't be an attempt to divert attention from other issues would it? :rolleyes:
Issues getting uncomfortably close to the Conservative Party at the moment, perhaps.
I agree.
And yet again instead of taking the lead and showing some true control.:( we all know the papers wont stop until every factor of this scandal is exposed.Then it will look like a forced idea to hold a full enquiry