Like I said I don't personally know anyone on benefits having a "cushy" life style (although I appreciate there probably are many abusing the system). My daughter has never claimed a benefit in her life but she's lucky, many her age haven't had a job through no fault of their own. If the system was fairer in assessing people then fair enough but it isn't - you've only got to look how ESA appeals (chronically ill/disabled) are going to appreciate that genuine claimants are slipping through the net and no-one seems to give a damn.
It's best to wait and see what clauses are included to protect those who are not playing the system (they usually do in some way) but the payment that goes on for year after year when there's no other reason than 'I don't want to do that job' has to stop. No-one would deny those who have become unemployed through no fault of their own - it's those who choose unemployment as a lifestyle that I have a serious problem with and benefits, paid over that length of time, that gives them a better lifestyle than a lot of working people (and I know quite a few).
and it galls them that their neighbours on benefits, have the wide, flatscreen telly, brand name clothes and go on holiday every year that others have to work damned hard to get.
it took me 4 months to save up for a 21' LCD TV monitor which also doubles as a PC monitor. 4 months to save up for something anyone in employment can buy and recieve within 4 days, anyone who claims being on benefits has it 'easy' is living down the rabbit hole. Simple things such as buying a new t-shirt or smart trousers goes out the window.
Until it happens I don't think anyone can appreciate the snowball effect being on benefits has.
and it galls them that their neighbours on benefits, have the wide, flatscreen telly, brand name clothes and go on holiday every year that others have to work damned hard to get.
it took me 4 months to save up for a 21' LCD TV monitor which also doubles as a PC monitor. 4 months to save up for something anyone in employment can buy and recieve within 4 days, anyone who claims being on benefits has it 'easy' is living down the rabbit hole. Simple things such as buying a new t-shirt or smart trousers goes out the window.
I lived on benefits when my children were very young whilst I went to college that would enable me to be in with a shout of employment. Although I got the courses free of charge (and studied part time), I also cleaned other people's houses; I was allowed to keep £6 of anything I earned and the rest was deducted by the government. Given that I didn't have to pay poll tax or rent, prescriptions and got a travel pass, I considered myself lucky to have that safety net. Long term claimants, unless it is genuinely health related, should not be encouraged.
Until it happens I don't think anyone can appreciate the snowball effect being on benefits has.
Absolutely, it's demeaning and demoralising having to jump through loophole after loophole only to regurgitate (and be told) the same things over and over again. pay-day loans forget it, I could barely afford such luxuries nevermind having to pay it back %APR.
Someone suggested these MPs should be trialled, I suggest these MPs shouldn't be paid a penny during their term in office (including expenses.) If they truly gave a crap about this corporate state we now live in they'd volunteer their time doing good for the communities like they expect US to do for our benefits. Their pay at the end of the term depends on their performance. Right now we have millionnaire MPs paying themselves vast wealths of fortune tax-free and only bow-down to corporatists instead of those they are supposed to serve.
It's best to wait and see what clauses are included to protect those who are not playing the system (they usually do in some way) but the payment that goes on for year after year when there's no other reason than 'I don't want to do that job' has to stop. No-one would deny those who have become unemployed through no fault of their own - it's those who choose unemployment as a lifestyle that I have a serious problem with and benefits, paid over that length of time, that gives them a better lifestyle than a lot of working people (and I know quite a few).
Totally agree re the workshy, I find them totally repugnant. My argument is that genuine claimants are being herded down the same lane through no fault of their own. That's what I call unfair. The Govt hasn't made a good job so far with ESA assessments - genuine claimants are suffering.
I don't think they are out of touch - long term claiming has to be dealt with and there's no way of dealing with it without someone feeling hard done by - think yourself lucky we live in a society that hands anything out at all. My son and daughter have jobs, always have had (even when few jobs about, my daughter and son have worked veg picking to earn their own money and car washing as well - granted they claimed income supplement (both have two children)) and it galls them that their neighbours on benefits, have the wide, flatscreen telly, brand name clothes and go on holiday every year that others have to work damned hard to get. If this move redresses the balance that working isn't always a good option, then I'm all in favour of it.
Didn't you help your children the best you can when they were going through this?
Good!!!!! Benefits are for food and clothing, they are not to spend on cigarettes, booze and expensive holidays.
You claim no child benefit, Working Tax Credit or Child Tax Credit then? Because the MP has not ruled out applying this proposal to those workers whom claim any of these benefits. Only exemptions are for those who claim state benefits and some disability benefits.
and it galls them that their neighbours on benefits, have the wide, flatscreen telly, brand name clothes and go on holiday every year that others have to work damned hard to get.
it took me 4 months to save up for a 21' LCD TV monitor which also doubles as a PC monitor. 4 months to save up for something anyone in employment can buy and recieve within 4 days, anyone who claims being on benefits has it 'easy' is living down the rabbit hole. Simple things such as buying a new t-shirt or smart trousers goes out the window.
Ways anyone could get a "Plasma TV"/iPad/new phone:
- BrightHouse/Perfect Home items on credit, paid for week by week. Shops tend to spring up in areas of high unemployment - why might that be..?;
- Overdraft, loan or personal credit agency. The latter target those on benefits;
- Competition wins. Some people on benefits do this as a full-time hobby and win a fair few things, which can be sold on eBay to make cash;
- Cash in hand;
- Gifts, cheap second hand resellers and Freecycle;
- Saved up for it and bought it on special offer;
Or...
- might actually have bought it BEFORE they were made redundant.
Do not assume every single person on benefit is living the life of Riley behind closed blinds as George Osborne would like everyone to think. The person behind those closed blinds that you see on the way to work might be a night shift worker asleep.
The unemployed are being made the Emmanual Goldstein of our era.
The amount of benefit fraud is tiny in comparison to tax avoidance and fraud, and the bank bailouts that have taken money from the poor and given it to the rich.
Ways anyone could get a "Plasma TV"/iPad/new phone:
- BrightHouse/Perfect Home items on credit, paid for week by week. Shops tend to spring up in areas of high unemployment - why might that be..?;
- Overdraft, loan or personal credit agency. The latter target those on benefits;
- Competition wins. Some people on benefits do this as a full-time hobby and win a fair few things, which can be sold on eBay to make cash;
- Cash in hand;
- Gifts, cheap second hand resellers and Freecycle;
- Saved up for it and bought it on special offer;
Or...
- might actually have bought it BEFORE they were made redundant.
Do not assume every single person on benefit is living the life of Riley behind closed blinds as George Osborne would like everyone to think. The person behind those closed blinds that you see on the way to work might be a night shift worker asleep.
the hell you on about, it was me who struggled to pay-off for the LCD TV.
I think the benefits card should be used as a deterrent rather than as the norm.
Mainly for those long term unemployed and those that fail to comply with the conditions concerning their benefit claim.
Nah, far easier to stigmatise all benefit claimants for the Government's ideologies.
Will be even more galling when the "strivers" supporting this proposal against the "scroungers" find out it's them too who will also be required to partake in this proposal.
I don't think they are out of touch - long term claiming has to be dealt with and there's no way of dealing with it without someone feeling hard done by - think yourself lucky we live in a society that hands anything out at all. My son and daughter have jobs, always have had (even when few jobs about, my daughter and son have worked veg picking to earn their own money and car washing as well - granted they claimed income supplement (both have two children)) and it galls them that their neighbours on benefits, have the wide, flatscreen telly, brand name clothes and go on holiday every year that others have to work damned hard to get. If this move redresses the balance that working isn't always a good option, then I'm all in favour of it.
Everyone seems to know a person like this and I often wonder about the veracity.
The reality of being a genuine claimant living on benefits is not like that.
the hell you on about, it was me who struggled to pay-off for the LCD TV.
Your rhetoric suggests that people on benefits can easily get a TV through their benefits whilst the worker struggles. I am merely demonstrating that there are many ways that anyone can get a plasma TV today on credit or through a win, or may even have owned or saved up for one before being made redundant.
Didn't you help your children the best you can when they were going through this?
I have been asked this before and I find it a strange question. My children grew up knowing a lifestyle that meant they couldn't have all the things their friends had although they knew I did my utmost for them. That left them with a lasting memory that they have to work to earn their income - they are often too proud to ask for help (especially my son who works in the building trade and his job is often on and off). I would see neither of them hungry or have no heating/lighting or warm clothes but with a couple of exceptions in their adult lives, that has rarely happened. They are the other side of the coin and see claiming benefits as something to avoid - both of them have done very menial work rather than claim benefits (my daughter, who weights about 8 and half stone, worked at a coal yard bagging coal). Because of their work ethic and viewpoint on handouts, I couldn't be more proud of them. I am there if they need me and they know that.
Everyone seems to know a person like this and I often wonder about the veracity.
The reality of being a genuine claimant living on benefits is not like that.
I heard this at work from a colleague too. I'm going to start demanding seeing evidence of this and the way that a benefit claimant would have paid for it (as I mentioned before, plausible to save/paid for it before/fund with easy credit/won it) before I believe it.
Frankly, I don't. The reality of claiming benefit is the same as yours. Not easy or the life of Riley at the "strivers" expense as people make it out to be.
Your rhetoric suggests that people on benefits can easily get a TV through their benefits whilst the worker struggles. I am merely demonstrating that there are many ways that anyone can get a plasma TV today on credit or through a win, or may even have owned or saved up for one before being made redundant.
It wasn't bridgerr who said it. It was Eve Dyer. Bridgerr didn't make it clear in his/her post that he was quoting someone.
The building trade has not collapsed, trust me, there is plenty of work out there for builders.
Sorry but goverment figures say yes it has. no one is building houses no one is building factory units no is building shops , no one is building anything because no one is buying. no point in building things if no one can afford them
A scheme like this would be great for monitoring how MP's spend their expenses. Trial it in parliament first.
Spot on.
When faced with a system where they don't need to provide receipts for anything under £40, it's an amazing coincidence how often the shopping bills and taxi fares come to somewhere near £39.
Given 'em a credit card and no cash at all instead.
Everyone seems to know a person like this and I often wonder about the veracity.
That is because they do exist - I would imagine the amount paid will vary from one area to the next.
The reality of being a genuine claimant living on benefits is not like that.
As I have already said: I was a genuine claimant and lived on benefits for around 5 years whilst studying but I did supplement my income by house cleaning. During that time, I managed to buy a colour tv, took my children on holiday and had days out at the weekend all over the UK but I didn't waste money on ready meals, booze, computer games etc.
I think you are another that has misread my posts (or maybe I forgot to add it in the first and that's as far as you got) but I have stated that those who are genuinely, for health reasons (or age discrimination), unable to be employed or for those on short-term unemployment should be treated with respect; those on long-term unemployment do not, imo, deserve any respect with how their money is paid to them - they should be grateful they are getting it, not whingeing about how it is paid.
Comments
It's best to wait and see what clauses are included to protect those who are not playing the system (they usually do in some way) but the payment that goes on for year after year when there's no other reason than 'I don't want to do that job' has to stop. No-one would deny those who have become unemployed through no fault of their own - it's those who choose unemployment as a lifestyle that I have a serious problem with and benefits, paid over that length of time, that gives them a better lifestyle than a lot of working people (and I know quite a few).
Until it happens I don't think anyone can appreciate the snowball effect being on benefits has.
I lived on benefits when my children were very young whilst I went to college that would enable me to be in with a shout of employment. Although I got the courses free of charge (and studied part time), I also cleaned other people's houses; I was allowed to keep £6 of anything I earned and the rest was deducted by the government. Given that I didn't have to pay poll tax or rent, prescriptions and got a travel pass, I considered myself lucky to have that safety net. Long term claimants, unless it is genuinely health related, should not be encouraged.
Absolutely, it's demeaning and demoralising having to jump through loophole after loophole only to regurgitate (and be told) the same things over and over again. pay-day loans forget it, I could barely afford such luxuries nevermind having to pay it back %APR.
Someone suggested these MPs should be trialled, I suggest these MPs shouldn't be paid a penny during their term in office (including expenses.) If they truly gave a crap about this corporate state we now live in they'd volunteer their time doing good for the communities like they expect US to do for our benefits. Their pay at the end of the term depends on their performance. Right now we have millionnaire MPs paying themselves vast wealths of fortune tax-free and only bow-down to corporatists instead of those they are supposed to serve.
Totally agree re the workshy, I find them totally repugnant. My argument is that genuine claimants are being herded down the same lane through no fault of their own. That's what I call unfair. The Govt hasn't made a good job so far with ESA assessments - genuine claimants are suffering.
Didn't you help your children the best you can when they were going through this?
Careful what you wish for.
- BrightHouse/Perfect Home items on credit, paid for week by week. Shops tend to spring up in areas of high unemployment - why might that be..?;
- Overdraft, loan or personal credit agency. The latter target those on benefits;
- Competition wins. Some people on benefits do this as a full-time hobby and win a fair few things, which can be sold on eBay to make cash;
- Cash in hand;
- Gifts, cheap second hand resellers and Freecycle;
- Saved up for it and bought it on special offer;
Or...
- might actually have bought it BEFORE they were made redundant.
Do not assume every single person on benefit is living the life of Riley behind closed blinds as George Osborne would like everyone to think. The person behind those closed blinds that you see on the way to work might be a night shift worker asleep.
The amount of benefit fraud is tiny in comparison to tax avoidance and fraud, and the bank bailouts that have taken money from the poor and given it to the rich.
Mainly for those long term unemployed and those that fail to comply with the conditions concerning their benefit claim.
Will be even more galling when the "strivers" supporting this proposal against the "scroungers" find out it's them too who will also be required to partake in this proposal.
The reality of being a genuine claimant living on benefits is not like that.
I have been asked this before and I find it a strange question. My children grew up knowing a lifestyle that meant they couldn't have all the things their friends had although they knew I did my utmost for them. That left them with a lasting memory that they have to work to earn their income - they are often too proud to ask for help (especially my son who works in the building trade and his job is often on and off). I would see neither of them hungry or have no heating/lighting or warm clothes but with a couple of exceptions in their adult lives, that has rarely happened. They are the other side of the coin and see claiming benefits as something to avoid - both of them have done very menial work rather than claim benefits (my daughter, who weights about 8 and half stone, worked at a coal yard bagging coal). Because of their work ethic and viewpoint on handouts, I couldn't be more proud of them. I am there if they need me and they know that.
Frankly, I don't. The reality of claiming benefit is the same as yours. Not easy or the life of Riley at the "strivers" expense as people make it out to be.
It wasn't bridgerr who said it. It was Eve Dyer. Bridgerr didn't make it clear in his/her post that he was quoting someone.
Sorry but goverment figures say yes it has. no one is building houses no one is building factory units no is building shops , no one is building anything because no one is buying. no point in building things if no one can afford them
Spot on.
When faced with a system where they don't need to provide receipts for anything under £40, it's an amazing coincidence how often the shopping bills and taxi fares come to somewhere near £39.
Given 'em a credit card and no cash at all instead.
And some people on benefits work a 35 hour week caring for the elderly and sick.
They couldn't afford to do this without it.
That is because they do exist - I would imagine the amount paid will vary from one area to the next.
As I have already said: I was a genuine claimant and lived on benefits for around 5 years whilst studying but I did supplement my income by house cleaning. During that time, I managed to buy a colour tv, took my children on holiday and had days out at the weekend all over the UK but I didn't waste money on ready meals, booze, computer games etc.
I think you are another that has misread my posts (or maybe I forgot to add it in the first and that's as far as you got) but I have stated that those who are genuinely, for health reasons (or age discrimination), unable to be employed or for those on short-term unemployment should be treated with respect; those on long-term unemployment do not, imo, deserve any respect with how their money is paid to them - they should be grateful they are getting it, not whingeing about how it is paid.